The ATS Missing Threads Conspiracy

Originally posted by Resentedhalo08
All I can say in my defence is I don't post a thread lightly

Really?

Two threads of yours required removal -- both because of serious Terms & Conditions issues. In one case your new thread attempted to recruit ATS members for an offline cause of your own, and the other was a blatant copy-and-paste from other sources with no attribution at all.

Originally posted by TheUniverse
Is it against T and C; To purport that ATS is censoring threads etc.

Terms & Conditions

15). Posting: You will not Post any material that is knowingly false, misleading, or inaccurate.

We've continually said that no "censoring" is happening, and removals are for T&C reasons.

I don't think the OP(Original Post) really personally called anyone out but he did seem to purport that ATS was covering up threads etc.

Which is a serious insult to our entire staff, and pisses me off.

Originally posted by B.Morrison
counter intuiative it may be, but according to my memory of conversations with SO, something definable as "an outside organisation demanding the removal of content due to ongoing investigation" has happened before.

Twice.

Long before the discussion board was part of ATS, Simon posted something provided to him to what used to be an article archive on ATS. The material ended up being highly classified and a removal request was eventually honored as Simon was operating the site all by himself at the time, and the possibility of significant legal fees to resist the request was not an option.

In 2004, the Defense Intelligence Agency ran a psy-op on ATS using a military contractor (under the account "HAWK") posted interesting material about "Project Juniper" that seemed legitimate. Some of the material contained the direct-dial phone number of a Special Agent in the DIA. He called me, and requested the removal of his phone number... since we don't allow personal information to be posted, it was removed. However, the thread was not.

Not threads or posts have ever been removed from the ATS discussion board as a result of a request from a government agency of any nation.

Originally posted by sheepslayer247
reply to post by greeneyedleo

 

Staff is always available to discuss why an action was taken. We are always willing to work with members.

I know it's a little late in the thread to bring this up, but this is not entirely true.

I have sent a couple messages via complaints, alerts and U2U to a super mod about certain issues and question and have never received an answer or clarification.
I understand that your job, while it's not actually a job, is quite burdensome but as I have said before...you are dealing with CT's! We analyze everything.

So unfortunately this statement is not completely true.

I know I shouldn't speak for mods here but having been a staff member for a forum as part of a top sportsperson/entertainer's official website with a membership in the same numbers as ATS, I can say how hard it can be to work a job, have a life and then do a million things as a moderator that can sometimes be for just a few hours per night or sometimes more with little sleep.

You have your own interests and contributions to make, fact checking, editing, warning, moving threads, posting reasons to the super mods and admin why a decision was made, posting news, looking out for T&C violations, helping members who are having difficulty manouvering the forums......

God only knows the things that mods here on ATS have to do but I can sympathise with you while also seeing it from Greeneyedleo's perspective too.

Hope it helps and haven't stepped on any toes by responding myself

Originally posted by Resentedhalo08
I was talking about the possibility of that...

You specifically said you've experienced the removal of threads because they came too close to the truth.

You later modified your rhetoric and backpedalled.

I have to ask you OP, if this really was a conspiracy, why on earth would this thread not have been deleted before it even reached page 2? I mean, if they were really try to keep people from reaching some sort of 'truth', why would they be okay with you letting people know that that's what they are doing? The logic just doesn't stand, in my opinion.

Originally posted by HenryPatrick
As far as I'm concerned, the pro-Zionist and anti-9/11 conspiracy posturings of the mods around here is proof positive that something fishy is going on.

To someone who reflexively blames "da joooooooos" for everyone (not specifically you), being neutral is "pro-Zionist."

And there is much filth in the realm of "9/11 Conspiracies" for which one should be against.

Originally posted by Raelsatu
If the thread has been 404'd/deleted how can we possibly provide evidence;

It can remain in the Google Cache for up to 30 days.

I think the site owner/moderators coming out and calling the OP crazy or completely wrong doesn't do anything but dig a deeper hole for themselves.

Really?

And how would you react to absurd and ridiculous accusations constantly being hurled, on a regular basis, on you and your closest friends?

In the end, at some point you just have to expect the community of conspiracist you created to turn around and call you the conspirator anyway.

Really?

Our all-volunteer staff should expect rudeness from those whom we provide a sophisticated free-to-use environment, with responsive moderation keeping the peace, with an expensive cluster of servers keeping it running efficiently, and a proprietary mixture of technologies that ensures their postings are searchable on Google within a couple hours of posting?

Seriously? You believe we should expect that? If you have a friend over to your house who happens to have a weak bladder, do you expect him to stand up and piss on your carpet?

reply to post by SkepticOverlord

Good evening SO. We have had limited interaction before and I suppose that it has not always been under the best of circumstances. It is unfortunate that I must continue that trend with this post.

Some things that have been said by mods and yourself have proven themselves to be axiomatic and potentially misleading. I believe that it shows your Mods have a certain level of "give" when it comes to enforcing the T&C. I hope that I am able to provide evidence to accurately illustrate that point.

You stated in this thread in response to Resentedhalo08:

In once case your new thread attempted to recruit ATS members

Ok, now lets look at the T&C

15e.) Recruitment/Solicitation: i) You will not use your membership in the Websites for any type of recruitment to any causes whatsoever. You will not Post, use the chat feature, use videos, or use the private message system to disseminate advertisements, chain letters, petitions, pyramid schemes, or any kind of solicitation for political action, social action, letter campaigns, or related online and/or offline coordinated actions of any kind. ii) You will not Post, use the chat feature, use videos, or use the private message system to collect or ask for the personal information (data mining) about forum members, including email addresses and "real life" names, in any manner whatsoever, or for any reason whatsoever. iii) You will not Post, use the chat feature, use videos, or use the private message system to solicit members of the Websites on behalf of another message board, online community or competitor. You will not attempt to use your membership to encourage or lure other members in any way to other websites or discussion boards in competition with TAN. Doing so will result in removal of your Post(s) and immediate termination of your account.

So Resentedhalo08 has clearly not been post banned or his account terminated. But I have a personal example to add.

I authored a thread recently, although it was with good intention, that was snipped and warned by a Mod that I was in violation of the same T&C that you claimed Resentedhalo08 was in violation of. But my account, nor Resentedhalo08's account has been banned or post banned.

In fact, the Mod that made a comment refering to this very T&C earlier in this thread made this comment on my thread. Greeneyedleo.

Originally posted by greeneyedleo REMINDER!! There is absolutely NO recruiting or collecting of personal information of members. Doing so will get you a posting ban and possible permanent ban. TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF USE are very clear:

So to me it is obvious that there is some discretion in which Mods are able to deviate from the T&C, without following it to the letter. If so, this leaves a huge gap in which errors can be made and contradicts some previous statements.


I am not trying to rock the boat, but I am trying to seek truth. I think it would be in the best interest of "disclosure" if you were willing to at least admit that the T&C are a guideline and that it is not always followed to the letter as some may imply.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
There's only three reasons for a thread to be removed:

1) T&C violation

2) New thread on a topic already being discussed

3) New thread with too much content pasted from another source (see #1)

Is that so? I swear I had a thread with a conversation with a CIA insider about how Osama's death happened about a week earlier and there was much more to it, but I guess it is pointless to go into details since the thread was deleted by semperfortis for reason "duplicate" because either the moderators cannot do their job for crap, or the OP is on to something. Last time I checked there wasn't any other thread with a conversation with a CIA insider about Osama's death and the conspiracy behind it.

reply to post by sheepslayer247


T&C are usually there as a guideline and it's up to the mods and admin who catch a post that may violate such whether or not to bring down the full banhammer or give a little leeway.

Up to the person's discretion at the time but most likely there was also some review in the mod's section of the forum as to whether Greeneyedleo's course of action should be maintained or further punishment in line with the T&C should be enforced.

Again, not to step on anyone's toes or speak for them but that's usually how things go from my experience.

Originally posted by typwar
I swear I had a thread with a conversation with a CIA insider about how Osama's death happened about a week earlier

At the time, there were dozens of new threads being started on the topic. Our staff made it very clear that members should contribute to existing Osama execution threads, rather that keep creating new ones.

Additionally, your thread quoted a source already used to initiate a previous thread.

Originally posted by sheepslayer247
So to me it is obvious that there is some discretion in which Mods are able to deviate from the T&C,

Generally yes, and we've made no secret of that.

We don't want to ban anyone, and typically do so only in extreme cases.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


you unfortunately have no cred on this forum mod you can very well be the naysayer some of us think you are already

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
It can remain in the Google Cache for up to 30 days.

Alright then I suppose I'll await the long list of cached 404'd threads. And even if they were to appear, it doesn't resolve my following comment about how there's no way to prove you deleted the thread because of aforementioned reasons.

And how would you react to absurd and ridiculous accusations constantly being hurled, on a regular basis, on you and your closest friends?

I can't honestly say since for 1 main reason: I'm not you. Perhaps you act differently based on the fact you are your own conscious person or because you're the owner of the website. However I'd think that you'd understand conspiracies such as the site being a CIA front are absolutely expected and reasonable among the state of such a community. As I said, what would it be like if there were a thread based around the corporate elite and one of them decided to pop in and defend himself? Would there be any credibility in his words? Then again I don't know what's worse, to completely ignore the matter or adamantly defend yourself. I find it a little peculiar that you've replied so much in a conspiracy thread that is according to you, completely ridiculous and foolish. Alot of conspiracies are just that.

As for the absurd accusations, I for one have seen threads that adhered to the T&C sent to the trash bin. Am I going to dig up my cache to "prove" this? No and I don't think it's necessary as many other people have come out on the same matter (and some of these very rant threads have been 404d themselves). Are me and other people merely fabricating these experiences for no good reason? I don't think it's so absurd for someone to think about a conspiracy like this, and I respect you for letting the thread go on so it can be discussed like any other conspiracy.

Really?

Our all-volunteer staff should expect rudeness from those whom we provide a sophisticated free-to-use environment, with responsive moderation keeping the peace, with an expensive cluster of servers keeping it running efficiently, and a proprietary mixture of technologies that ensures their postings are searchable on Google within a couple hours of posting?

Seriously? You believe we should expect that?

Note the "lol" at the end of that statement. I was trying to say it's quite ironic, slightly humorous that the forum that propagates conspiracy theorist has become the subject of their alert, skeptical [and often paranoid] minds. I actually think you should take this thread as a compliment to be honest.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by typwar
I swear I had a thread with a conversation with a CIA insider about how Osama's death happened about a week earlier

At the time, there were dozens of new threads being started on the topic. Our staff made it very clear that members should contribute to existing Osama execution threads, rather that keep creating new ones.

Additionally, your thread quoted a source already used to initiate a previous thread.

My thread was very different than others. Other threads just said "oh hey guys Osama isn't dead" or whatever other story they could think of for reason to hate the government, while my thread had a conversation with someone with possible evidence of a conspiracy. But that's cool, I guess I have no choice but to forgive your power hungry full of themselves moderators.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord

15). Posting: You will not Post any material that is knowingly false, misleading, or inaccurate.

I don't think the OP mean't to be misleading inaccurate or false(semantics suppose); just conjecture on his part that maybe its possible the CIA or government officials had infiltrated the site Via mods. There are quite a few of them.

Another Conspiracy i guess.

Most of us are Tin Foil hatters


Are we allowed to inquire; if you yourself believe that its possible one of the mods could be a government Employee and/or CIA/FBI

Hysterical.

SO, you may as well just reply with "Damn, you got me, the jig is up guys..." because nothing you say will change these people's minds. Just like with the umpteen other threads just like this.

Proving you are not a CIA front is just as pointless as proving there are no nefarious intentions with HAARP.

No matter how much you try and how hard you keep tying, they will just Na Na Na you and when you stop trying they will claim victory.

I can only imagine your frustration.

SkepticOverlordI am sorry you are getting so upset by this.
but! it is a conspiracy site!
if you thing about it. it is quiet funny.
an conspiracy about a conspiracy site.
and you are the ones the conspiracy is about.
so the boot is on Your other foot.
the members of ATS need to have there
minds put at rest over this conspiracy.
so we can go back to all the othere conspiracy!
well I find it funny and I am having a good laugth about it.

Life is an conspiracy.

Explanation: Uhhhm???

ATS T&C's [ATS]

22) Disclaimer: TAN does not and cannot review all of the content of every message Posted and does not accept responsibility for the contents of any messages. We reserve the right to delete any message and/or restrict Posting rights on the message board for any reason whatsoever. Should you continue to Post messages that violate these Terms and Conditions of Membership, your account may be terminated, your ability to access to the Websites may be restricted or blocked, and your service provider(s) may be contacted about your behavior. Furthermore, TAN expressly reserves the rights under the law to take any other actions deemed necessary.

We reserve the right to delete any message and/or restrict Posting rights on the message board for any reason whatsoever.

for any reason whatsoever.

WTFH! Don't my fellow members understand about the conditions they signed up under! You were and ARE supposed to read and REREAD them OFTEN!

Personal Disclosure: This is such a freaking beatup on ATS and the Amigos and the Admin and the Mods!

P.S. Trolls don't get FAIR they get TOLD!!!