Mysteries of the Titanic

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Photo: The real Titanic, 1912

The journey and sinking of the Titanic is surrounded by mystery.

1. A Mysterious Prediction

Years before the Titanic was even being designed, the event was predicted in the 1898 book The Wreck of the Titan. The book says that the Titan is the biggest ship in the world and unsinkable and indeed Titanic was the biggest ship in the world and said to be unsinkable. In the book Titan is 800 feet long, Titanic was 882 feet long. Both the Titan and the Titanic carried less than half of the lifeboats needed for 3000 people. Both the Titan and the Titanic struck an iceberg while traveling too fast (22 and 25 knots) in the North Atlantic. Both the Titan and the Titanic were 400 miles far away from Newfoundland when they sank. Both in the book and in real life the event occured in April.

What does this teach us? That there are no coincidences. I´ll leave it up to you to speculate the hows and whys.

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2. The Federal Reserve Conspiracy

According to a number of conspiracy-theorists, the sinking of the Titanic was a conspiracy to bring about The Federal Reserve Bank and take control of the world through a series of disasters and wars. The Federal Reserve
was planned by a group of men who met in 1910 on Jekyll Island:

Frank Vanderclip and Nelson Aldrich (representing Rockefeller)
Henry Davidson, Charles Norton and Benjamin Strong (representing J.P Morgan)
Paul Warburg (representing Rothschild)

Standing in the way of and opposing the Federal Reserve Bank were the following individuals:

Benjamin Guggenheim
Isador Strauss
John Jacob Astor (the richest man alive back then)

All three were persuaded to take a ride on the Titanic.All three sank with the Titanic. J.P. Morgan himself was supposed to join the ride but cancelled. The captain of the Titanic himself, Edward Smith, also worked for J.P. Morgan.

The Federal Reserve was established in 1913, one year after Titanic and one year before World War I. I´ll leave it up to you to speculate the hows and whys.

See also: History of the Federal Reserve

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3. The Insurance Fraud Theory

According to this source:

Gardiner draws on several events and coincidences that occurred in the months, days, and hours leading up to the sinking of the Titanic, and concludes that the ship that sank was in fact Titanic's sister ship Olympic, disguised as Titanic, as an insurance scam.

More on this particular conspiracy theory can be read here: Titanic Insurance Fraud

On September 20, 1911, the Olympic was involved in a collision with the Royal Navy cruiser HMS Hawke near Southampton. The cruiser smashed its ram into the side of the Olympic, seriously damaging both ships. The inquiry found Hawke free of all blame. This set in motion Gardiner's theory. White Star Line was not insured for the cost of fixing the damaged Olympic. The White Star's flagship would also be out of action during any repairs, and the Titanic's completion date would have to be delayed. All this would amount to a serious financial loss for the company. Gardiner proposes that, to make sure at least one vessel would be earning money. Olympic was then converted to become the Titanic. Gardiner states that few parts of either ship bore the name, other than the easily removed lifeboats, bell, compass binnacle, and name badges. Thus, Gardiner believes the Titanic spent 25 years in service as the Olympic.

Additional research and commentary welcome.

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I'm so glad you've covered the insurance issue.. Not many people ever do.
It would make a lot more sense over the whole insanity of it all. Especially when you wonder why "Titanic" was sailing at full speed in waters known to have ice bergs?

It's always made me wonder if it was deliberate in order to get rid of the evidence. When you look at the history of people trying to solve, once and for all, the damage done to the bow of Titanic, you'll know they are always deeply frustrated by the fact that the damaged area is buried deep in mud.

Some believe there may actually have been a bomb and the bow is bent outwards and was deliberately driven into a berg to cover up the explosion.

And i hate to be the party pooper but 1,517 people died, not the amount you've stated... (you might want to change it )

I've had a bit of a deep interest in the Titanic for many years. To me, it is the prime example of a lesson we must never forget and must learn from.

It stands out as an eternal flame that the rich and powerful are just as fragile as everyone else and that the power they hold is nothing when we're all in the same boat. How class systems must be abolished. How equality, kindness and humanity must learn to live together.

Being involved in the paranormal field, (as you've posted in the paranormal forum) I and others, have always wondered what may still haunt that particular area.. There is a popular TV show where ghost hunts were done on WW2 shipwrecks, and engines and voices were heard by the divers..

The Titanic is in the hearts and minds of many a nation, so perhaps the spirits of the past still walk the wooden decks of this incredible, mysterious piece of history.

ETA; Just been checking the number of those who died As even the number I quoted did not feel right to what I remembered. According to the internet, the actual number varies from around 1513 to 1523.. Why the discrepancy after all this time is anyone's guess.

reply to post by Extralien


Thanks for the response! I thought this would be my first zero-response thread. I guess Titanic is a dated topic to many, although I agree with you that its stands as a symbol even for our Generation. I removed the numbers.
About hauntings: Any traumatic event probably leaves ghostly residue...

reply to post by Skyfloating


Hey there Skyfloating I always love your threads (you always put in so much research) and I particularly like the fact that you have made one about the Titanic ... much mystery indeed.

I just wanted to post so that I can come back later to read thoroughly and absorb.

Woody

I love the Titanic and have read so much about it. You've compiled a nice little list of the major conspiracies surrounding it,

It's funny cuz I was obsessed with the Titanic as a kid (I still have the blue prints for the ship on my wall)... and when I got older, I found out my great grandfather had a ticket and missed the ship by a few minutes.

That explained my obsession... had my great grandfather actually been on time... I wouldn't exist.

Well, I might have existed, but he had a 3rd class ticket... so I highly doubt he would have survived if he made it to the ship in time.

These Titanic threads always fascinate me. I've had an interest in the ship since I was very young, mainly due to the fact my father has bought every book going on the subject I think. Also, living not far from Belfast, I have been able to visit the Harland & Wolff shipyard on a number of occasions.

In my opinion, it was just an accident caused by over confidence and perhaps arrogance by the owners of the ship. They went out with a point to prove.
They knew they had the most opulent and luxurious ship on the Atlantic at that time and I believe that they wanted to show that even though it was the biggest ship in the World, it could also make good time on the crossing.

But, having said that, the various theories that people have about why or how it sank certainly do make for interesting reading. And a persons mind can always be changed


Nice read by the way

Originally posted by xFloggingMaryx
That explained my obsession... had my great grandfather actually been on time... I wouldn't exist.

Wow...you can say Titanic is directly linked to your existence. Not many people can say that.

There is also controversy that a psychic told them that to name the boat the Titanic would surely bring the anger of the Gods upon them, the Greek Titan Gods.I can find where there were many predictions about it but none specific to the name Titanic, but I beleive a Greek psychic had said it, I am not sure. Maybe it wasn''t a psychic but a Greek I am pretty sure of this.

As much as I love a good conspiracy, I have to disagree with the OP. The Atlantic Ocean is a gigantic place - 41,1000,000 sq. mi. - approximately 20% of the earth's surface....and then there's this:
en.wikipedia.org...

In order for an iceberg to reach the North Atlantic the currents typically take it from Baffin Bay through the Davis Strait and Labrador Sea. This is a long trip and most icebergs never make it. Most icebergs melt well before entering the Atlantic Ocean. One estimate is that of the 15,000 to 30,000 icebergs produced annually by the glaciers of Greenland only one percent (150 to 300) ever make it to the Atlantic Ocean. When an iceberg does happen to reach the Atlantic its long and traveled life quickly comes to an end melting rapidly in the warm waters.

www.factmonster.com...

**Inasmuchas there are indeed conspiracies in this world, there are also coincidences and I'm afraid I believe that this is one.

Great topic. F&S
I have always been fascinated with the tragic story of the Titanic. I too have always felt that the moral of this story was that it didn't matter whether you were poor or rich, in the end, the passengers on the ship all died the same.
At the same time it reminded me of the story of the building of Babylon tower. You know, people thinking they could be able to reach God by building a tower high enough, well that didn't work out as planned either. I think the people who built this ship, full of luxury and extravagance were reaching further than their blankets could reach. It just wasn't meant to happen.

On a side note: Why can't I find any EVP's on passengers who have died on the Titanic?
I have searched everywhere.
I have also read of a paranormal group wanting to go to the Titanic and record EVP back in 2010. I haven't heard or been able to find anything of their success or failure of it since then.

Here's link of the planned trip to the Titanic to get EVP.
www.aolnews.com... n/

I've always wondered, even as a kid watching the movie, if it was done on purpose for an insurance job!
As another poster said- your threads are always great!
Thanks man

Originally posted by drsamuelfrancis
I've always wondered, even as a kid watching the movie, if it was done on purpose for an insurance job!
As another poster said- your threads are always great!
Thanks man

Alot of people died on that fateful night & seeing pictures of them all happy getting on the boat always makes me think how they didn't know what was coming.
The insurance job conspiracy for me is the 1 that i find the most likely but what kind of human being would send people out knowing there about to be killed.
I'd like to think the liner hit an iceberg & sank & was a tragic accident but somehow i don't think so.

Great Thread

i see staff want to counter this summer threads trend.

the conspiracies surronding titanic are very interesting but sadly burried deep under the sea, proving anything these days is a waste of time, and mostly impossible, i have no doubt by now all leads are erased and burried.

that does not make these conspiracies or many others irrelevant or not interesting to research though.

these conspiracies are a great reminder and perspective, that we can use to analise more recent events, and see the similarities, and once one digs deep enough, a pattern emerges.

every once in a while an event happens that while shocking the world becomes the inception of changes, positive or not, but usually not.

and if you start replacing the characters and places and events, the underlying storyline is always the same.

agendas are devised but the masses wont accept

the event is foretold

the event happens

problem reaction and solution

conspiracy ensues

this thread could be used as the standard format to makes threads about...

the cruzades(lol)
the reichtag fire
the lusitania
pearl harbour

and many many more

"never let a good crisis go to waste"

reply to post by Skyfloating


Nice subject.

If I am not mistaken, the first photo is actually the Olympic, its sister ship. The picture was often published by newspapers as being that of the Titanic, but it was not. I think no such picture (in dock) of the Titanic actually exists.

Regarding the novel Futility (I think that's its original title?), I used to love discussing it with my family (one of our relatives actually travelled on the Titanic) until I really thought it through and saw none of the coincidences was really inexplicable. Some years ago I actually wrote a paper about it; it's too long to explain it in detail here. It's a lot like with Jules Verne. The author did study ship construction and followed relevant news about ship building, so the measurements and the equipment of the ship were in keeping with that. If he wanted to have his ship collide with an iceberg (although the reason was something else, if I remember correctly - I read it years ago!), April was the perfect month, because it was not too early for such a "fancy" voyage (you wouldn't want your passengers to freeze, plus such ships generally avoided winter passages, precisely because of the dangers), but still cool enough for the occasional iceberg to float by.
And the name, of course.... The name seems the most incredible coincidence of all.
But if you consider the kind of "heroic" names that ships had at the time, and the fact that the author wanted to make it some sort of "Greek tragedy" parable of the modern world, "Titan" seems like an almost obvious choice.

Having said that, the Titanic always makes for a nice story.
One of my relatives had an odd experience a few years ago. It appeared to her that she had seen a newspaper notice about the Titanic's arrival in New York. When she tried to find it again, she could not find it.

reply to post by Skyfloating


if Capt.smith worked for JP Morgan,why exactly did he go down with the ship then....

Originally posted by PorroAgoVetusRespublica
reply to post by Skyfloating

 

if Capt.smith worked for JP Morgan,why exactly did he go down with the ship then....

Are you seriously asking that?
He had no choice, morally or legally. Even today, the ship's captain must not leave the ship before every single passenger and crew member are safe.

Unless you are talking about J. P. Morgan himself?
Again, that was a situation when no money or position of "power" would or could help.
When he saw there were no places left even for women and children, he never even tried to extort his way on a boat, or so the reports tell us. The same was true of other "powerful" passengers aboard the ship.

Titanic's May-December Romance

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John Jacob Astor and his young wife Madeleine.
John Jacob Astor, Seems to have been the wealthiest man onboard Titanic, Who married a very yong woman named Madeleine Force in September 1911. He was 48.

She was an 18-year-old debutante, a year younger than Astor’s oldest son from a prevouis marriage to Ava Lowle Willing.

On the night of Titanic’s sinking,
John J. Astor it is said that he begged to get in the lifeboat with his young wife, but he was turned away. As her lifeboat was leaving, Astor threw his gloves to his new wife, and that was the last they saw of each other (or so the story goes. Now that sounds so sad the whole ship wreck was sad ..

This was the sadest movie I ever saw and I still keep watching it over and over..

On the night of April 14, 1912,

Mrs Madeline Astor .. was confronted by her husband that night he came to her and told her that the ship had hit an iceberg.

"He reassured her that the damage did not appear serious, so she got dressed in a silk white evening gown, put on a whit fitted fur coat over that she put on her lifebelt, then put on some silk gloves and slipped into some satin slippers with diamond buckles. She put on a pearl necklace with pearl earrings, put on a diamond watch and 4 pearl bracelets with her wedding ring, engagement ring and a few other rings, and grabbed a satin purse (that John had bought her in Egypt) that had 200 dollars and a few jewels, and then they took off."ext

"He reassured her that the damage did not appear serious, so she got dressed in a silk white evening gown, put on a whit fitted fur coat over that she put on her lifebelt, then put on some silk gloves and slipped into some satin slippers with diamond buckles. She put on a pearl necklace with pearl earrings, put on a diamond watch and 4 pearl bracelets with her wedding ring, engagement ring and a few other rings, and grabbed a satin purse (that John had bought her in Egypt) that had 200 dollars and a few jewels, and then they took off."

Madeleine gave birth to her son, John Jacob Astor VI, and relinquished the Astor fortune when she remarried

John Jacob Astor, IV
cheddarbay.com...

Picture & Information source's
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...
en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by NorthStargal52


And poor Astor ended up getting crushed to death by one of the Titanic's smoke stacks.

reply to post by xFloggingMaryx


Yeah and can you believe they found all that stuff on his body???? gold diamond ring, bank notes, cash, holy and she had to climb out the window onto the lifeboat and she actually lived .. I know I have read this all so many times but I think there were only 711 survivors .. and I cant belive that that a boat of this size and capacity didnt have the proper amount of life rafts/boats did anyone sue this Company??/ for that reason alone I wonder??

reply to post by NorthStargal52


It is a nice story, but let's not forget there were nine honeymoon couples aboard. Only four, I think, were reunited. Four or five of the newlywed husbands died.

I also love the story of Mr. and Mrs. Strauss. That's every bit, or more, romantic than anything I'e ever read.

If anyone is interested in the details of the Titanic tragedy, I would recommend Lord's A Night to Remember, published in 1953. To this day no other book has surpassed it in accuracy.