Am I anti-semetic? You decide.

reply to post by LargeFries


Born and raised in Queens (which has large Jewish populations). What my point is however, I don't really care how strict a Jew is or isn't. I don't care what they believe is right and wrong. I respect what they believe and what they want, but when it interferes with someones life, who doesn't want anything to do with it, I've got a problem. I stick up for people, and when I see the suffering of the Palestinians, it enrages me and my hatred for the political leaders responsible for it.

Maybe I'm just young, and I wasn't around to experience the beginning of the conflict. But I'm more worried about now, rather then trying to fix and dwell on the past.

I just hope the Palestinians will one day be a free nation standing amongst the other nations in the General Assembly. And you don't know how happy I'd be to see Abbas and Netanyahu shaking hands after reaching a peace agreement. I'd have tears running from my eyes. I'd hang a Israeli flag outside my window.

Click here for more information.

reply to post by BiGGz


Haha, I've been called anti-semetic many times! An anti semite is just someone who openly despises all Jewish people, and it is exactly the same as racism. Disagreeing with a particular set of politics, especially one as brutal and unfair as Zionism, is not anti-semetic, as it an aversion to politics, not a culture, not a race, not a religion.

reply to post by ken10


Okay, don't let the door hit you on the way out. [/facepalm]

reply to post by DeepThoughtCriminal


That's been my argument. Zionism is not Judaism. Zionism is a political movement. I've said before, you wouldn't call a Republican anti-Semitic if he doesn't agree with a Democrat. Why would you call someone an anti-Semite if they don't agree with Zionist policy? Seems to me that's just a way for Zionists to put a bad name on people who disagree with them.

I respect the self-determination of the Zionists to create a homeland for the Jewish people, but not at the expense of others.

Originally posted by BiGGz
reply to post by LargeFries

 

Born and raised in Queens (which has large Jewish populations). What my point is however, I don't really care how strict a Jew is or isn't. I don't care what they believe is right and wrong. I respect what they believe and what they want, but when it interferes with someones life, who doesn't want anything to do with it, I've got a problem. I stick up for people, and when I see the suffering of the Palestinians, it enrages me and my hatred for the political leaders responsible for it.

Maybe I'm just young, and I wasn't around to experience the beginning of the conflict. But I'm more worried about now, rather then trying to fix and dwell on the past.

I just hope the Palestinians will one day be a free nation standing amongst the other nations in the General Assembly. And you don't know how happy I'd be to see Abbas and Netanyahu shaking hands after reaching a peace agreement. I'd have tears running from my eyes. I'd hang a Israeli flag outside my window.

edit on 19-6-2011 by BiGGz because: (no reason given)

BIGGz thank you for your reply. Your closing paragraph was very moving. IMHO you're a good man and I'd be proud to call you brother.

Correct me if I'm wrong but one does not need to be Jewish in order to be a Zionist.

Hitler was a great supporter of Zionism. He called for the establishment of a homeland for Jews and actively worked to encourage German Jews to emigrate to Palestine.

more info

Originally posted by RealAmericanPatriot
reply to post by Ben81

 

1) The Israelis were ATTACKED in 1967.

And what happened before that... you know when Jews marched in to a land they have never lived in for millenia and the palestinians were made to give up their land to create a place for someone else.
Its like me losing my house in a fire and someone else insists I move in to live at your house.

2) The Israelis CAPTURED the land that gave the Muslims a tactical advantage.

In other words, might is right.
So whats wrong with muslims fighting to CAPTURE that land back.

4) If you truly believe all captured land should be returned, then you are going to need somewhere else to live because the majority of the U.S. IS CAPTURED LAND.

Fine, how about the Palestinians be allowed to live with some dignity and NOT in ghettos, living in fear of Israeli raids?? Is that good enough for you?

5) Islam already possesses 97% of the Middle-East, yet they can't tolerate Israel's little home.

awwwww.... israels little home

Problem is, Islam did not cause the holocaust. So if it means Islam can control 100% of the middle east, then so be it. Do you really see logic in making non-Germans pay for the crimes of the Germans?

6) You may not be anti-semitic, but you sure bought into their propaganda.

Whos propaganda? What about your OP? Sounds like propaganda from the other side to me.

I hope these facts clear up some delusions many ATSers have concerning Israel. They aren't fighting over land. They are fighting their own genocide...and don't say that could never happen...it could happen within hours with today's technology...long before anybody anywhere could organize a "powerful" demonstration on their county "courthouse lawns"...

Ah... the old "Poor little israel is living in constant fear" line again.
I can say the same for nuclear armed Israels arab neighbours.... that they too can experience destruction and genocide at the hands of Israels technology.

Radical Islam has stated it's intentions...Hamas has said it...Iran's president has said it...and many other powerful Muslims have all stated their intentions:

"radical islam" is a label used by fundamentalist christians and jews. Hamas and Irans president do NOT represent Islam. That would be like saying the rapture guy Harold Camping or Fred Phelps represents all christians

They will not rest until the State of Israel is irradicated and every last Jew is eliminated from the face of the planet... That IS their mission in life...

This is propaganda.... on the same lines as a neo-nazi stating that jews will not rest till they have full control over the worlds financial systems.

If muslims will not rest till jews are gone, then explain to me why iran has not started killing off its jews (iran has the second largest concentration of jews in the middle east)

If what you say is true, then we should be seeing the iranian muslims killing off the jews living in Iran. But that is not the case.

Now I am not anti-semitic either, but Im sick and tired of the supporrt israel gets despite it brutalizing the palestinians. Ill say it again, why the palestinians? What did they have to do with the holocaust or any other event leading up to the formation of the state of Israel.

reply to post by BiGGz


Definitely not.

Everyone's entitled to their own opinion, as extreme, biased and misguided as it might be, both on the Zionist side, and the anti Zionist side, that doesn't make anyone antisemitic or and Arab hating racist.

With respect,
Eliad.

reply to post by bigyin


That kind of conflicts with the fact that he locked them up inside their ghettos and didn't let anyone out, doesn't it?


Seriously though, enough with this new age disinfo and misleading information, he was hardly a Zionist..

That's like saying the fact he fought alongside the Ottomans in WW1 means Hitler is an Arab.

With respect,
Eliad.

Originally posted by Eliad
reply to post by bigyin

 

That kind of conflicts with the fact that he locked them up inside their ghettos and didn't let anyone out, doesn't it?



Eliad.

Are you saying that the referenced work is fictional ?

reply to post by bigyin


Have you read it?

A Jewish state in Palestine, the Foreign Minister informed diplomats in June 1937, would not be in Germany's interest because it would not be able to absorb all Jews around the world, but would only serve as an additional power base for international Jewry, in much the same way as Moscow served as a base for international Communism.

It's not Zionism, it's deportation, is all.

At any rate what I'm saying is that the writer might have picked and chose certain facts and put them together in a manner that leads an uninformed reader to believe that Hitler had any serious relationship with the Zionist movement other than the fact that he saw it as a good opportunity to deport Jews.

Or perhaps it's your perception that's a bit selective on this (as all of ours is). Have you really read the whole article from beginning to end?

With respect,
Eliad.

Originally posted by Eliad


At any rate what I'm saying is that the writer might have picked and chose certain facts

So it's not fiction it's fact ?

reply to post by bigyin


There are facts, and there are assertions, you do understand the difference, don't you?

The notion the Hitler was a "Great supporter of Zionism" can be interpreted in two ways- One: That Hitler supported the ideas and goals of Zionism, meaning, he was a Zionist (an antisemitic Zionist, as you asserted), Two: That he gave some form of aid to the Zionist movement.

So what is the fact you're looking for? Well, the answer is, again, hidden within the text, that you probably should have read before posting:

Hitler himself personally reviewed this entire issue in early 1938 and, in spite of his long-standing skepticism of Zionist ambitions and misgivings that his policies might contribute to the formation of a Jewish state, decided to support Jewish migration to Palestine even more vigorously. The prospect of ridding Germany of its Jews, he concluded, outweighed the possible dangers.

So which is it? Was he an antisemitic Zionist that called for the establishment of the Jewish homeland, as you claimed, and somehow deducted from this text, or was he simply aiding Zionism simply so he could deport the Jews?

Also, once he figured out the final solution, you do realize he ceased all his support to the Zionist movement at once, right?

I hope everything's more clear now.
Especially the part about assertions being different than facts, something you might want to keep in mind while reading further material regarding the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

With respect,
Eliad.

P.S
I'm visiting Scotland in a couple of weeks, we should meet up for tea or something.

reply to post by Eliad


A lot of people including many Jews would assert that all zionists are anti semite, just as you have described Hitler.

The mere idea of forcing the creation of a Jewish State with all the opposition and violence it has involved is clearly not good for Judaism and it is why so many oppose it.

When Hitler knew that what he was doing by sending Jews to Palestine would create so much trouble for not only him, because he was going against Arabs and the British, but he could also see the problems a Jewish state would create, but he went ahead anyway and helped to found the creation of Israel for which zionista have forever been very grateful.

It's what you call an inconvenient truth, but I can understand why you want to cover it over with any old made up twaddle.

Have a nice holiday. Bring an umbralla cos it's raining a lot here.

Israeli Minister "We always use the anti-Semitism trick or bring up the Holocaust"

www.youtube.com...

write from the whorse's mouth
same old same old
its all an excuse to stiffle critisim of the people who stand against the financial robbery of the US,
and other western countries...
After all it is illegal to give money to any country who han't signed the NNPR and who has Nuclear weapons..
Like Israel, who can't even stand on its own two feet financially...and is selling weapons to the uS's enemies...
I know I know it is anti semitic to defend palistinians who are semites but hey who's counting?

can the uS afford this...
dunno maybe they should send Israel foodstamps and derivitives instead of the goodstuff...

reply to post by bigyin


You're not getting it, read you own text.

In his mind he wasn't aiding the creation of a Jewish state, he didn't believe that it would eventually happen, and he was willing to take the risk, on the off chance that it did.

All facts indicate that he didn't support a Jewish state, he didn't support giving any power to the Jews, all he ever wanted was to send the Jews out of Germany and in to the desert.

If we can agree on that, then there's nothing inconvenient about this truth at all.

Furthermore, I completely agree that there are many "Zionists" all over the world who's sole agenda is not the benefit of the Jewish people, or Israel, but their own religious, or otherwise, agenda, regardless of how it affects the people living in this area.

But then, how are they Zionists? Why should they be called Zionists? Because they support Israel for their own twisted agenda? That's not right, is it?

This is anti semitism

Jewish student caught painting Swastikas on her own door then claiming Anti-Semitic Attack

www.youtube.com...

and this is too:

Rabbi: "Zionists have hijacked the Jewish religion"

www.youtube.com...

so is this

Herman Rosenblat's Holocaust memoir of love is exposed as a hoax

www.timesonline.co.uk...

and when will elie weasle show his actuall tatoo
www.eliewieseltattoo.com...


BTW
someone a few threads ago accused me of anti semitism because all zionista are jews
when I am a staunch anti my primeribblet in CANADA being an
*Israeli before Canada-ist*
Guess bidan blows
that theory
(in that quote a few posts back)