Arizona Police Officer Execute Man For Telling Them They Needed A Warrant

Originally posted by Xcathdra

Originally posted by TribeOfManyColours
That is true, I reread it and understand the derailing. I did not changed my vieuw. Yet these past comments are way off topic. ( I am Dutch, perhaps there is the root of our communication prob.)

Yes, it is way off topic. However I am not the person who rasied this issue you are.

How are the laws where you are from apply in a scenario like this? Do your police have the ability to enter a house when their is an active Domestic Dispute going on?


I did not raise the part where the law got pulled in between our dispute. You thought I meant it, while I only pointed out the the public opinion from media and civilian are already made up.

You could see that with the case of DSK. Hours after he got arrested, you read allot of comments.
Jail him for life, rapist etc,(US comments, pull up the first thread about him)
Now with this cop, he is being protected, while he should hang publicly. The evidence against this cop is greater then the evidence against DSK. (my opinion)

This situation is so blown up, that it goes by its original meaning.
How the laws are in our country? I personally do not care about laws, I do as I like. When I walk against the lamp of law I will notice. Have 0 respect

We hang our officers publicly

www.elsevier.nl...

Dutch

edit on 16-6-2011 by TribeOfManyColours because: (no reason given)

reply to post by Thepreye


While I am sure its shocking, please put it in perspective. Not all cops here in the states act like the ones who make the news. Those morons who make the news, make it for a reason, and the rest of my profession has to live with their idiocy on a daily basis, making our jobs harder.

It doesnt help when people incorrectly stereotype, placing all officers into the same category as this one.

Just a respectful request.

reply to post by TribeOfManyColours


Uhm... riiiight.

How exactly then can you judge this officers actions, when your own statement is so far in left field, it would make a drumhead look like a valid legal exercise in due process?

If your goal is to refuse to comply with the law, you have no respect for law enforcement, and you would prefer they be hanged, then would you not be the exact same thing you accuse this officer of?

Or is your response another breakdown in communication? If it is, use Babelfish to type your response in duth and convert it to English.

I believe that the number of good cops is quite a low number to be sure, these people, on a daily basis as part of their job, harass, rob, kidnap and murder. It truly takes a sociopath to be be a cop in today's America. 90% of their job is to extract a "muggle" tax with the threat of kidnapping, imprisonment and violence. Everyone is a criminal to them. I have met a number of good cops in my life, and you know what, not one is a cop any more, they have to a man gotten so disgusted with the thin blue line that they give up. The majority of today's LEO''s are war veterans, conditioned to believe everyone is the enemy.

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by TribeOfManyColours

 

Uhm... riiiight.

How exactly then can you judge this officers actions, when your own statement is so far in left field, it would make a drumhead look like a valid legal exercise in due process?

( Killing is Evil, the cop is a killer? There is the judging) The mother and partner officer said he did it(Why would they lie?)

If your goal is to refuse to comply with the law, you have no respect for law enforcement, and you would prefer they be hanged, then would you not be the exact same thing you accuse this officer of?


I do not think about the law I do as I like, I will notice if I broke any law. So its not that I have a choice to live above the law(luckily common sense is like the law for me) Its common sense to act accordingly in traffic for example, there I follow the law as it makes sense to me in terms of safety.
I judge the officer on his action. Dog dead, son dead. Partner of cop and mom in shock, about the actions of that killer cop. Its common sense to address the man accordingly. (At least fire the man, so that he cannot find himself in a situation like what happend) And that is very mild me thinks.

edit on 16-6-2011 by TribeOfManyColours because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by TribeOfManyColours
( Killing is Evil, the cop is a killer? There is the judging) The mother and partner officer said he did it(Why would they lie?)

Innocent until proven guilty here in the States. You should probably understand that if you want to continue this discussion and be taken seriously.

Originally posted by TribeOfManyColours
I do not think about the law I do as I like, I will notice if I broke any law. So its not that I have a choice to live above the law(luckily common sense is like the law for me) Its common sense to act accordingly in traffic for example, there I follow the law as it makes sense to me in terms of safety.

uhm... ok

Originally posted by TribeOfManyColours
I judge the officer on his action. Dog dead, son dead. Partner of cop and mom in shock, about the actions of that killer cop. Its common sense to address the man accordingly. (At least fire the man, so that he cannot find himself in a situation like what happend)

So your perectly fine then with only hearing one side of the story.

Ok then.. well thanks for the response. I think I will stick to the posters who know whats going on.

Originally posted by Xcathdra

Originally posted by TribeOfManyColours
( Killing is Evil, the cop is a killer? There is the judging) The mother and partner officer said he did it(Why would they lie?)

Innocent until proven guilty here in the States. You should probably understand that if you want to continue this discussion and be taken seriously.

Originally posted by TribeOfManyColours
I do not think about the law I do as I like, I will notice if I broke any law. So its not that I have a choice to live above the law(luckily common sense is like the law for me) Its common sense to act accordingly in traffic for example, there I follow the law as it makes sense to me in terms of safety.

uhm... ok

Originally posted by TribeOfManyColours
I judge the officer on his action. Dog dead, son dead. Partner of cop and mom in shock, about the actions of that killer cop. Its common sense to address the man accordingly. (At least fire the man, so that he cannot find himself in a situation like what happend)

So your perectly fine then with only hearing one side of the story.


Ok then.. well thanks for the response. I think I will stick to the posters who know whats going on.

We have to wait indeed what the cop has to say. (Thats why i took the DSK in the matter)

The human emotion of the mother, and the statement of his cop partner mean nothing of course.

reply to post by Xcathdra


Sure, I'm certainly not anti police I have zero illusions about what type of people would take control and their subsequent actions if the cops disappeared, I know the current and a previous pres of the local MC HA and quite a few pimps, gangsters and drug dealers in my town, it would be hell on earth for the weak every day Joe's.

In the UK the official police culture is policing by consent and in most cases they use verbal and body language people skills to moderate situations, obviously man handling and coarse actions and language go on at night when dealing with drunks and hard core crims but in my wide experience no rage or emotion just effective policing by and large.

I bet you'd have enjoyed your career even more if it had taken place in a European culture same camaraderie and what we call canteen culture, but I'd be very disturbed if I had colleagues who behave in the manner indicated by the vids I see here and elsewhere showing what goes on over there and the pressure to protect the rotten apple.

Imho the US for cheap rabble rousing electioneering has gotten itself a nightmare of a criminal justice system, what the hell is 3 strikes and your out, life for selling a spliff or nicking a piece of pizza it just ratchets up the tension and stress and lets face it they still sell the spliff or nick the pizza it's not deterring anyone just brutalising your society.

I don't think the partner can even be counted as a good cop. He should have tazed the partner as soon as he put the gun to the guys head. He had right then and there demonstrated he was out of control and should have been put down and cuffed. Ratting after the fact is really easy, he should have put a stop to the rabid pig before he killed the kid.

My first impression was that this is a tragedy, but that if the officer in question felt threatened that the shooting may have indeed been justified. I am also surprised that this officer is facing charges so quickly after the incident, rather than the public being given the routine "It's under investigation" line while the officer is placed on paid leave.

Full article

reply to post by Thepreye


As I stated not all cops are like the cop in this thread. In the states, as with any other country including the UK, only the idiots make the news while the officers who do their job and act appropriately dont make the news.

I wonder what will make a better news story - A situation where cops respond to a domestic, talk both parties down, and transport the female to a firends house so both sides can cool off for the night.

Or

Officers responding to a domestic, altercation ensues in the house, a dog gets shot, a guys gets tased and then shot.

I wonder.


We do have comraderie here in the states, although I am not sure why you would think we dont. As far as the comment goes about how UK officers deal with people, we do the same thing. Almost every single department has a code of conduct officers follow. An officer being a jerk can result in a charge of discourteousnes and can result in disciplinary action being taken, regardless of how right the offficer might have been.

As far as the comments go about the laws and three strikes, the only thing I can say is people need to understand how the laws work. What I mean by this is I see a lot of foriegners, as well as Americans, who dont understand how they work.

Your reference to the 3 strikes law belongs to California, where that law is in place. Its not a universal law, its only in California. We have 50 states, the district of columbia and several commonwealths / territories, all of which are seperate entites from the FEderal Government. Each respective body can pass their own state laws.

Those laws are indicative to only that state. The ONLY way those laws migrate is when the law is challenged and it heads to FEderal Court. Once it hits the Federal Court of appeals, all states within that circuit are affected by the ruling. If it makes it to the US Supreme Court, and they rule on it, it is then applied to all states / territories / commonwealths as either a revision / clarification of that law in the origionating state, and case law to states who do not have the law in effect.

Its like the thread dealing with the BART transit officer who went to jail for shooting a guy in the back. Some people made comparisons to an incident that occured in Michigan. What they failed to understand is Michigan and California have seperate laws, each with their own criteria and punishment factors.

Hope this helps in explaining some of the hows and whys.

For anyone who really think bad cops are rare just visit this site and get back to me.
Injustice Everywhere
Its time for the LEO's, at least in the US, to understand they are outnumbered almost 900 to 1 and when push does come to shove, they will finally become the victims. There are an estimated 200 million PRIVATELY owned firearms in the US. I wish to see no violence, but the police state day by day is pushing people who just want to be left alone to the point of breaking

reply to post by Xcathdra


Just a quickie as I read, I said "the same camaraderie and what we call canteen culture", obviously I know you have it too, I hope that misread didn't skew your entire response.

Re the rest, I used three strikes as an example of what was sold to the public as an answer to crime the whole zero tolerance thing over in the US as a whole, which let's face it has merely resulted in richer lawyers and a boon for the shareholders in the prison system and a pain for the crim's victims when the crim gets a nothing to lose mentality.

I have a fair, for a foreigner, understanding of the US system, I read Pol, Phil and American Studies at uni, the later primarily because of the media modules and the chance to meet the US girls who were loving the freely available drink and stuff at 18, while here on exchanges for a year.

I know there are a few bad apples in every bunch.... I just don't want to hear that crap anymore. It no longer applies. This types of stories have become commonplace. No one is shocked anymore when things like this happen. That should tell everyone, there is a problem.

With that being said, actions like what this Officer showed lead to things like THIS, THIS, THIS and even THIS.

So when this cop gets his slap on the wrist and serves a few months in protective custody for executing an unarmed man, don't be shocked when your police station becomes a story I link in another thread about out of control cops.

reply to post by MrWendal


So you are saying because incidents like these happen, your ready to throw constitutitonal protections out the window? Kind of a dire response dont you think?

While I agree the behavior is unacceptable, we still only have one side of the story for this incident. Before you start building the gallows should we not at least allow the guy to have his day in court?

And no, im not defending the cop personally, what I am defending is due process and the presumption of innocense until proven guilty.

Originally posted by Thepreye
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

Just a quickie as I read, I said "the same camaraderie and what we call canteen culture", obviously I know you have it too, I hope that misread didn't skew your entire response.

Yeah I misread that part. My bad man.

reply to post by Xcathdra


Right, you say you are a cop, and you are asking everyone to give your brother in blue, the benefit of the doubt, and his day in trial. The very thing this cop's bullet took away from the dead guy.... Not to mention his life....

Are you gunning for frank marino's job?

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by MrWendal

 

So you are saying because incidents like these happen, your ready to throw constitutional protections out the window?

I think you know that MrWendal does not wield such power.

Anyhow, he is mad for no reason; it was only a few bad apples, a couple rotten eggs, an anomaly, only following policy, etc...

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

Right, you say you are a cop, and you are asking everyone to give your brother in blue, the benefit of the doubt, and his day in trial. The very thing this cop's bullet took away from the dead guy.... Not to mention his life....

Are you gunning for frank marino's job?

edit on Thu, 16 Jun 2011 06:29:19 -0500 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)

Actually all I have done is ask that people follow the law in this case. Is it that much to ask? I mean if you acted in a manner that resulted in the death of another person, and from your point of view you acted appropriately, would you want your day in court as well as the presumption of innocense?

Or would you just shrug your shoulders and say yup, public opinion (who was not present when the incident occured) says im guilty) is right take me to jail?

As I stated, im not defending his actions, I am defending the process we have used the last 300 years. The argument you are making is akin to being pissed because the cop broke the law, so you feel you can break the law to punish him?

Originally posted by Exuberant1

Originally posted by Xcathdra
reply to post by MrWendal

 

So you are saying because incidents like these happen, your ready to throw constitutional protections out the window?

I think you know that MrWendal does not wield such power.

Anyhow, he is mad for no reason; it was only a few bad apples, a couple rotten eggs, an anomaly, only following policy, etc...

Is there a point looming somehwre on the horizon in your post? If the cop is found guilty, then by all means throw him in jail.

Let me put this another way.

When people decide anyone is guilty without due process, a trial, right to face your accusers etc, you have become just as bad as the person you accuse of being a murderer.

If you find the officers actions so abhorrent, then why are people willing to drop to the same level while making a ludicrous argument that the behavior is somehow different.