Why American Indian Drugs Are Considered Dangerous To Current Day Society

I've been wondering heaps lately how Shamans and American and Mexican Indians used to use hallucinogenic psychedelics such as Cannabis Sativa (Marijuana), Salvia Divionurm (Diviner's Sage), Cactus's (Ayahuasca, Peyote, San Pedro), Ipomoea violacea (Morning Glory) and Rivea Corymbosa (Ololiuhqui) when current doctors in western countries such as Australia and America consider the side effects of these drugs to be bad. I have had experience with Cannabis Sativa before and even after smoking a small amount of it it really does create feelings of depression, inability to achieve an erection, loss of libido, clouding of memory, and inability to speak at usual pace. Were some of these side effects of these drugs the same when used in Ancient Indian times?? Why would peaceful tribes continually go forward in using drugs which has such negative and drastic side effects??

I have had experience with Cannabis Sativa before and even after smoking a small amount of it it really does create feelings of depression, inability to achieve an erection, loss of libido, clouding of memory, and inability to speak at usual pace.

You sure you didn't just read that in a book? I am a regular smoker and I do not experience a single thing you mentioned, nor does anyone I know nd I know a fair share (big time understatement) of smokers.

Well, I think its because they used them in a different context. These are all spiritual drugs that you speak of. And they most likely realized that these "side effects" you speak of are merely a creation of the mind. You only have a bad experience if you believe that is what it is. They do not concern themselves with the effects so much as using these plants to change their perspective on reality. In this day and age, we are severely hampered in our choices of alternate realities, one where those in power tell us these plants don't have a place.

Originally posted by Jamuhn
Well, I think its because they used them in a different context. These are all spiritual drugs that you speak of. And they most likely realized that these "side effects" you speak of are merely a creation of the mind. You only have a bad experience if you believe that is what it is.

As a Native American, ......yes, this is quite right. It was not a matter of getting "high for a buzz", it was not a matter of getting high and "watching a movie, or playing games" it was spiritual and meditative purposes, to "help" reach a higher mind state that opens other channels of the brain......not for silly thrills.

LadyV: yes that's what I've tried to use it for previously

D1K: Yes I have read it in books actually. But like I said, I experience it every time I use cannabis too. I've also read about these common side effects in most scientific sources and pamphlets from drug and alcohol councils which say it happens to most people. Are you sure that you just aren't aware of the side effects because you smoke it so much?

Jamuhm: I know that people in power dictate to us and we're limited on alternate realities but you saying physical side effects from a drug is a frame of mind is not true. What you're claiming is that anyone can do anything with the power of their mind. That's not true. I can't wish I had a million dollars in my bank account. It won't happen, and I certainly don't wish any ill side effects from any of these natural substances.

[edit on 8-8-2004 by sugeshotcha]

may i suggest you all take some of the mexican mushrooms and see for yourself just how ignorant and scared you are. Everybody should do it at least once in their life. Not that you cant reach these states with meditation only, but it takes years, this will at least show you that there is more to life than your little brain is willing to admit, and it will get you back safely (compared to syntetics). And you see it for yourself, so then you cant doubt it anymore can you...but that scares you doesnt it...becouse then what will you do, you cant wonder in the dark as you are used to anymore?

You just go and find the little indian within yourself

The thing about marijuana to remember is that its not actually classified as a hallucinogen(sp?), its actually in a category all to itself. Your current mood, personality, and overall mental state will dictate the experiences you have while using marijuana. Its actually the same for just about any drug, but pot seems to be the one most influenced by your mind. So if you've read alot of those BS 'reports' about all the bad things happening to people who smoke weed, your going to have a crappy experience, and vice versa if you've read about people just blazing up and chilling to some Pink Floyd or something.

Yes but that doesn't answer the basis of my question. Marijuana in this day and age is scientificalyl proven to cause severe lung cancer, severe lung diseases, have dozens more times tar than cigarettes, proven to decrease male libido, shrinkage of the testicles, lead to impotence. I know the psychological effects depend on what mood ur in but the physical ones do not. Also, Native indians used to smoke tobacco in pipes too. WHY DIDN'T THEY ALL DIE OF CANCER FROM SMOKING EVERYTHING THEY SAW??

Originally posted by sugeshotcha
I have had experience with Cannabis Sativa before and even after smoking a small amount of it it really does create feelings of depression, inability to achieve an erection, loss of libido, clouding of memory, and inability to speak at usual pace.

I have 30 years of extensive field research with most of the drugs you mention and a few you do not, but most folks I have observed under the influence of Cannabis actually get quite horney when high. I have also found that it relieves feelings of depression rather than causing them. I cannot remember whether or not it clouds the memory though.

[edit on 10/2/2004 by esther]

You will need to provide real medical links to prove pot's serious detrimental effects, such as "severe lung cancer". As I recall, precancerous rats given THC tend to get better, so the experiments are "failures" because they did NOT prove the carcinigenic effects of pot....

[also, ayauasca is not a cactus. Pot makes ya horny. the only folks that believe your BS are those with no experience of it]

Originally posted by sugeshotcha
Cannabis Sativa (Marijuana), Salvia Divionurm (Diviner's Sage), Cactus's (Ayahuasca, Peyote, San Pedro), Ipomoea violacea (Morning Glory) and Rivea Corymbosa (Ololiuhqui)

The only instant 'side-effects' of drugs of this kind are those which are created in the mind. Using these drugs regularly and excessively may cause the problems you spoke of sugeshotcha, but they do not cause harm if used in the right way. These drugs were part of spiritual ceremonies, enhancing the rituals with feeling, emotion and colours that you could not achieve in any other way.

All the drugs you have mentioned are the ones that should legal.

Ok Thanks everyone.

groingrinder you mentioned:

I have 30 years of extensive field research with most of the drugs you mention and a few you do not, but most folks I have observed under the influence of Cannabis actually get quite horney when high. I have also found that it relieves feelings of depression rather than causing them. I cannot remember whether or not it clouds the memory though

I'm wondering does anyone know if negative side effects could occur from different strains or marijuana depending on where its grown, how its grown, what fertilizers/minerals are used. Most stuff I've had is hydroponically grown I think as it's so cheap and common in this state. Could it just be the fact that its grown hydro that enhances these negative side effects??


Earthtone wrote:

Using these drugs regularly and excessively may cause the problems you spoke of sugeshotcha, but they do not cause harm if used in the right way

Earthtone what is the right way to use them, particularly Marijuana then to achieve these enlightning purposes without any negative side effects?

Jamuhm: I know that people in power dictate to us and we're limited on alternate realities but you saying physical side effects from a drug is a frame of mind is not true. What you're claiming is that anyone can do anything with the power of their mind. That's not true. I can't wish I had a million dollars in my bank account. It won't happen, and I certainly don't wish any ill side effects from any of these natural substances

Sorry to bring this up again, but I stand by my original statements.

If you want to know why it will never happen, read over your statements again. You continuously deny that such a thing will happen. So how can it happen if you dont KNOW it wil happen? That's what I was saying with my first post, what we believe will happen happens. Theres no way around it, if you wanted to change your external experience, you must change yourself first.

Originally posted by sugeshotcha
I have had experience with Cannabis Sativa before and even after smoking a small amount of it it really does create feelings of depression, inability to achieve an erection, loss of libido, clouding of memory, and inability to speak at usual pace.

You may want to contact your doctor about these symptoms.

Originally posted by sugeshotchaWhat you're claiming is that anyone can do anything with the power of their mind. That's not true. I can't wish I had a million dollars in my bank account.

Yes you can!!! Just make sure you have a structural link to the trend (a million dollars in your bank account) and a structural link to your target (you), fuel it with enough chi.... make sure don't sabotage it.... And you got yourself a million dollars in your bank account.

And as for the substances... erowid.org is a good website to find out about marijuana for example.

Originally posted by sugeshotcha
Also, Native indians used to smoke tobacco in pipes too. WHY DIDN'T THEY ALL DIE OF CANCER FROM SMOKING EVERYTHING THEY SAW??

Keep in mind that they didn't start smoking Marlboros....they preceeded the extra crap they put in modern-day cigs.....tobacco alone is not good for your lungs but it is better than smoking 100 other things at the same time - filter or no filter.

Also, modern day non-ritual use of drugs is all about acheving a high, regardless of what you do with it...since the 60s people have been figuring out ways to make it more potent - 100-200 years ago, American Indians were no doubt "chiefing" on some pretty lame Buddha, therefore it really was just a form of assistance - I don't know if there is a direct link b/w THC content and carcenoginic qualities, but I'm sure it left them less buzzed the next day than if they were to smoke some of today's ganja.

Originally posted by esther
Why don't they do studies on the many subjects who just don't fit all these terrible stereotypes? There are people out there who pay their bills, go to work, raise kids (happy well-adjusted ones from what I've seen) and even go to college, all the while maintaining astronomically high GPAs. Why do we never hear about those folks?

Oh oh oh oh, that's right! Because that would only encourage you to consume a natural product that the government makes more money off of "fighting" than it would "regulating and taxing". Actually, it's because it would render all those "important" jobs like DEA Agents and unnecessary prison positions obsolete.

Stupid, stupid, stupid, if you ask me. But the economy is "flourishing", right?

NO NO NO NO!! WE DO NOT NEED THE GOVERNMENT REGULATING AND TAXING GOD'S SACRAMENT!!! They already take in enough money regulating the devil's poison. If they only would go as far as decriminalizing it and allowing joe citizen to grow it, then hundreds of billions of dollars would be taken out of the hands of criminal enterprises.

NO NO NO NO!! WE DO NOT NEED THE GOVERNMENT REGULATING AND TAXING GOD'S SACRAMENT!!!

Too late....check out this thread I posted a few minutes ago in response to your remark
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by sugeshotcha
Yes but that doesn't answer the basis of my question. Marijuana in this day and age is scientificalyl proven to cause severe lung cancer, severe lung diseases, have dozens more times tar than cigarettes, proven to decrease male libido, shrinkage of the testicles, lead to impotence. I know the psychological effects depend on what mood ur in but the physical ones do not. Also, Native indians used to smoke tobacco in pipes too. WHY DIDN'T THEY ALL DIE OF CANCER FROM SMOKING EVERYTHING THEY SAW??

I gave up smoking, but brownies are very good and non-carcinogenic. As for the other symptoms listed, I find the opposite to be true. My libido actually improves.
joey:loland I'm female)