Gravity Can't Do This!

Originally posted by psikeyhackr

Originally posted by wmd_2008
So you have
15x700+ tons of floorslabs + 15 floors of wall columns + 15 floors of core columns + the top hat trusses + the radio mast + lift machinery . Quite a lot of mass.

Notice that you put in the TONS for the floor slabs but you did not put it in for ANYTHING ELSE. Then you have the nerve to talk about MASS.

Guess what? After TEN YEARS we don't have the data to do the analysis regardless of what really happened.

Now why is that? Why haven't our so called PHYSICISTS been demanding it.

I didn't see you mention the horizontal beams in the core that connected the core columns. How many TONS were they. We don't even know how many feet. I am estimating 1500 feet per level but I have never seen it specified.

So at best we don't have the data after TEN YEARS so this is a scientific travesty no matter what happened.

9/11 is the Piltdown Man incident of the 21st century. But nobody went to war over that.

psik

Well MASS IS MASS IS MASS and there's plenty of it, why dont you put some figures in one of the many calculators on the net to get an idea of the likely impact force just using the mass of the floorslabs!

Well lets see the perimeter around the core area is 452ft so if you had 2 levels (and thats if!) of horizontal beams on each floor then thats 904ft bit less than your guess of 1500ft also if you look at the drawings for the core not all the levels had columns connected to others! Also if you guys used your minds instead of your emotions to think things through guess what the truss drawing shows something lets see if you can spot it.

reply to post by psikeyhackr


Have a look a the area of impact on the South Tower then it would be obvious to anyone why the tilt happened and also why it didn't continue the rotation!

reply to post by wmd_2008


What do you think about the jets/ejections that are visible during the collapse that resemble those seen during controlled demolitions? [atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f9e715173a4f.jpg[/atsimg] [atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/974fb4d93d37.jpg[/atsimg] "Pressure puffs" that happen to look just like them?

reply to post by psikeyhackr

The most amazing thing about 9/11 is how the top of the south tower tilted 22+ degrees in a couple of second 50 minutes after the building stopped vibrating from the plane impact. That required the bottom of the upper broken portion to move horizontally 20 feet and yet the plane impact only moved the building 15 inches.

No it only requires that the supports on that one side of the building buckeled. Kick out the legs on one side of a table and see what the boxes on top do.

Didn't you play with toys as a kid?

Originally posted by samkent
reply to post by psikeyhackr

 

The most amazing thing about 9/11 is how the top of the south tower tilted 22+ degrees in a couple of second 50 minutes after the building stopped vibrating from the plane impact. That required the bottom of the upper broken portion to move horizontally 20 feet and yet the plane impact only moved the building 15 inches.

No it only requires that the supports on that one side of the building buckeled. Kick out the legs on one side of a table and see what the boxes on top do.

Didn't you play with toys as a kid?

NO!

All you have to do is watch the video. The motion was all wrong for one side collapsing and rotating about the intact side.





You are just another example of someone not observing and thinking about the obvious.

Plus even if that tilt could occur the upper block should have fallen down the side. Coming straight down and crushing the rest with the center of gravity so far off center is more nonsense.

But then the NCSTAR1 report never talks about the center of mass of that upper block.

psik

Originally posted by wmd_2008
Well lets see the perimeter around the core area is 452ft so if you had 2 levels (and thats if!) of horizontal beams on each floor then thats 904ft bit less than your guess of 1500ft also if you look at the drawings for the core not all the levels had columns connected to others! Also if you guys used your minds instead of your emotions to think things through guess what the truss drawing shows something lets see if you can spot it.

ROFLMAO

There were 47 columns in the core.

There were only 24 around the perimeter of the core. So you are trying to tell us that there were no horizontal beams connecting the columns inside the core. Maybe you should notify Purdue about that. Their so called SCIENTIFIC SIMULATION had had horizontal beams throughout the core.



psik

Originally posted by samkent
According to annok…

All the college physics professors in the world are in on the secret.
All the High school physics teachers in the world are in on it.

Or is it that annok has misinterpreted the laws of physics?

Please show me where I have misinterpreted the physics?

Please list all the physics professors, and high school teachers who have said I'm wrong.

How can I be misinterpreting the physics? Am I lying when I say all colliding objects experience exactly the same forces on impact?...

For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.

The statement means that in every interaction, there is a pair of forces acting on the two interacting objects. The size of the forces on the first object equals the size of the force on the second object. The direction of the force on the first object is opposite to the direction of the force on the second object. Forces always come in pairs - equal and opposite action-reaction force pairs.

www.physicsclassroom.com...

I am not misinterpreting anything, you do not even address this! Not once do you OSers address the laws of motion in your claims. You are the ones misinterpreting the physics by not including them AT ALL in your claims.

But of course you can't can you, because if you did your hypotheses would fail, wouldn't it?

Why will none of you answer this question?....

1. While driving down the road, a firefly strikes the windshield of a bus and makes a quite obvious mess in front of the face of the driver. This is a clear case of Newton's third law of motion. The firefly hit the bus and the bus hits the firefly. Which of the two forces is greater: the force on the firefly or the force on the bus?

...Because you know the answer contradicts your claims.

Here is the answer, read it and understand...

Trick Question! Each force is the same size. For every action, there is an equal ... (equal!). The fact that the firefly splatters only means that with its smaller mass, it is less able to withstand the larger acceleration resulting from the interaction.

Each force is the same size, just like when concrete and steel panned floors impact. The SMALLER mass, the bug, loses because it the smaller mass. You are all simply making a very common mistake of someone who has never taken a physics class. This is so simple, you guys are either incredibly stupid, or you're trying to deceive to simply win an argument.

The relative Mass of two Rigidbodies determines how they react when they collide with each other.

unity3d.com...

Mass determines how they react when they impact. The only energy acting to cause the floors to drop was gravity. To make the top 15 floors crush 95 floors would take more energy than that of gravity.

Go ask your professors, or school teachers, about the laws of motion and how colliding objects react.

Originally posted by wmd_2008
Well lets see the perimeter around the core area is 452ft so if you had 2 levels (and thats if!) of horizontal beams on each floor then thats 904ft bit less than your guess of 1500ft also if you look at the drawings for the core not all the levels had columns connected to others! Also if you guys used your minds instead of your emotions to think things through guess what the truss drawing shows something lets see if you can spot it.

The drawings you are looking at do not reflect reality...





No emotions involved, simply physics and facts. Emotional people use caps, and explanation marks, ignore facts and physics principles, and type like their fingers are on fire making grammar mistakes like a five year old.

reply to post by psikeyhackr


They forgot one small little detail in their analysis, and that is the 3e dimension.

Originally posted by samkent
According to annok…
All the college physics professors in the world are in on the secret.
All the High school physics teachers in the world are in on it.
Or is it that annok has misinterpreted the laws of physics?

According to samkent...
On Earth mass = weight.

Or is it that samkent has misinterpreted the laws of science?

Originally posted by tezzajw

Originally posted by samkent
According to annok…
All the college physics professors in the world are in on the secret.
All the High school physics teachers in the world are in on it.
Or is it that annok has misinterpreted the laws of physics?

According to samkent...
On Earth mass = weight.

Or is it that samkent has misinterpreted the laws of science?

The weight of a mass at the surface is used as the reference for the quantity of mass.

Big deal. Let's not argue about TRIVIA to win debating points.

This crap has dragged on far too long already.

psik

reply to post by ANOK


I take it you have not figured out the way that the laws work they dont work in isolation YOU did click on the links I take it.

Each floorslab connections support its self and NO OTHER REPEAT NO OTHER that why the connections are the same all the way from top to bottom and its for the same reasons that wall and core columns are thicker because they do have to take the mass of the columns above them.

See like you construction is simple when you know how and why!

So according to the great ANOK the ACTUAL ARCHITECTS DRAWINGS DONT REFLECT REALITY STRANGE!!!! Yes the architects drawings!!!

Now the reason that there is not much steel between internal columns in the core it makes it difficult to do things like say get access to lifts and stairs!!!

Originally posted by TupacShakur
reply to post by wmd_2008

 

What do you think about the jets/ejections that are visible during the collapse that resemble those seen during controlled demolitions? [atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f9e715173a4f.jpg[/atsimg] [atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/974fb4d93d37.jpg[/atsimg] "Pressure puffs" that happen to look just like them?

edit on 1-8-2011 by TupacShakur because: To edit my post

Watching the actual replays of that video, there are some serious errors in believing they are made by explosives. For one thing, these jets, increase in speed as time progresses. You can see how they increase in speed as the collapse progresses. Also, the jets get darker, as more dust and debris starts to squirt out. Now here is the catch. Since when does an explosion's blast accelerate after detonation? An explosion has an initial high velocity that immediately, after detonation, begins slowing down. Its an initial impulse. Once the impulse is done, there is nothing to actively accelerate the blast wave. The blast begis to slow down just after the bang. It does not explode and then shoooommm!!! takes off down the track accelerating like a bat out of hell. A rocket engine does that. But not if you take a stick of dynamite, a block of C4, PETN, TNT, nitroglycerin, etc. If you detonate the explosive, even a nuke, does the blast accelerate to infinity? Does the blast wave continue and go faster than the initial velocity of the blast? That is the key to understanding how explosives work, and how pressurized air works. You can increase the velocity of air, like when using a plunger, or a bicycle pump.

In fact watch the actual gif here:
"Squibs" squelched

Watch how the debris is being ejected. I have yet to see explosives "jet" debris out in a constant stream.

reply to post by GenRadek

In fact watch the actual gif here:
"Squibs" squelched

Watch how the debris is being ejected. I have yet to see explosives "jet" debris out in a constant stream.

Yeah you and the explanation on that website make some good points. Plus the jets aren't perfectly symmetrical, they're kind of just all over the tower as can be seen here: I'm still not 100% sold on the pressure puffs explanation, because they match up really closely but not perfectly with squibs seen in controlled demolitions.

So there are two choices: Believe that they're caused by never before seen jets of debris that are caused by the air pressure. But if that's what happened, why don't they all appear underneath the part that's being destroyed? What causes the pressure puffs way down the tower? Did one of those heavy machines shown on "debunking9/11" somehow get hit with enough force that it flew through 30 floors unimpeded, and then hit something that causes it to stop all of a sudden and create that puff?

It's either that, or I could believe that they're squibs which are caused by controlled demolitions which have been seen many times before and look really similar to what we see in the Twin Towers. However if that were the case, why don't they go off symmetrically down the tower, like 1 every 10 floors on each side? Maybe that could be explained by thermite weakening the core in some areas, and explosives being used in other places to make the puffs look more random, but would the people who set it up really do that much precautionary work?

I think the next step would be to figure out exactly how wide the core column was, and somehow place an outline of it on those videos to see if the puffs all occur where the core column would be located.

I'm inclined to believe that they're caused by explosives since those kinds of puffs are seen a lot in CDs, and some unprecedented theory of what caused them doesn't really close the book on them IMO.

Just wondering, how did the video analysis turned out? Any results yet? Or were the results not in favor of a conspiracy and therefore not posted?

reply to post by TupacShakur

It's either that, or I could believe that they're squibs which are caused by controlled demolitions which have been seen many times before and look really similar to what we see in the Twin Towers.

The puffs seen in the 911 video happen after the collapse was underway.
The puffs seen in CD happen just before the collapse.

That tells me floors were falling and creating high pressure farther down. This pressure blew out the weakest window(s).

reply to post by -PLB-

Just wondering, how did the video analysis turned out?

Poorly. [atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a17e711f4250.jpg[/atsimg] Since the core of the building is rectangular, I tried going into Google Earth and finding out which sides of the tower were which by using the buildings in the background of the videos to try and match it up. Long story short, I couldn't figure out which sides of the tower were which, so I gave up.

The puffs seen in the 911 video happen after the collapse was underway.
The puffs seen in CD happen just before the collapse.

Good point. But since they happen before the collapse in demolitions, maybe the explosives could have been rigged up to blow progressively as the tower collapsed, rather than all at once, which would still provide the destruction of the core before the top section impacts it since they all occur ahead of the destruction wave.

That tells me floors were falling and creating high pressure farther down. This pressure blew out the weakest window(s).

Yeah, and if they were caused by explosive charges, I think they would be more symmetrical. One would explode where the core would be every 15 floors on one side, every 10 floors on another, or something like that.

The one reason I'm not 100% sold on the pressure wave theory is that jets that look very similiar to squibs, even if they don't happen at the exact same moment in the collapse. But GenRadek's explanation about explosives just about shut the book on this one for me, so I'm leaning more towards the pressure wave theory primarily because of the non-symmetrical locations of the squibs and the speed that they come out compared to actual squibs.

reply to post by TupacShakur

But if that's what happened, why don't they all appear underneath the part that's being destroyed? What causes the pressure puffs way down the tower?

The largest of the air ejections happened on the mechanical floors where the banks of local elevators bottomed out. The mechanical floors differed from the other floors in that they had screens between the columns instead of glass (to keep out birds) . Behind the screens were large vents for the ac units and elevator shafts. This exit was the path of least resistance for the air being compressed inside the building.




If you watch the gif at the top of this page you can see 2 of the external screens or possible the vent louvers being blown out.

air ejections

Also if you watch this gif, you will see smoke from the elevator shaft fireball exiting the same vents on the mechanical floor below the impact.

Originally posted by TupacShakur
Yeah you and the explanation on that website make some good points. Plus the jets aren't perfectly symmetrical, they're kind of just all over the tower as can be seen here:

I'm still not 100% sold on the pressure puffs explanation, because they match up really closely but not perfectly with squibs seen in controlled demolitions.

So there are two choices: Believe that they're caused by never before seen jets of debris that are caused by the air pressure. But if that's what happened, why don't they all appear underneath the part that's being destroyed? What causes the pressure puffs way down the tower? Did one of those heavy machines shown on "debunking9/11" somehow get hit with enough force that it flew through 30 floors unimpeded, and then hit something that causes it to stop all of a sudden and create that puff?

It's either that, or I could believe that they're squibs which are caused by controlled demolitions which have been seen many times before and look really similar to what we see in the Twin Towers. However if that were the case, why don't they go off symmetrically down the tower, like 1 every 10 floors on each side? Maybe that could be explained by thermite weakening the core in some areas, and explosives being used in other places to make the puffs look more random, but would the people who set it up really do that much precautionary work?

I think the next step would be to figure out exactly how wide the core column was, and somehow place an outline of it on those videos to see if the puffs all occur where the core column would be located.

I'm inclined to believe that they're caused by explosives since those kinds of puffs are seen a lot in CDs, and some unprecedented theory of what caused them doesn't really close the book on them IMO.

edit on 2-8-2011 by TupacShakur because: To edit my post

But notice, with explosives, its just a puff, and thats it. Its not a constant stream of air blowing out with more and more speed.

reply to post by GenRadek

But notice, with explosives, its just a puff, and thats it. Its not a constant stream of air blowing out with more and more speed.

Yeah that along with the non-symmetrical position of the jets lead me to believe they're not a part of a controlled demolition.