The Growth of Atheism and What it Means for Our Future

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by flyingfish

 

You would be surprised, I have a christian aunt who is convinced that anyone not attending her particular congregation is going to hell.

She has been trying to get her mother who is a catholic to switch to her church for years, her church is some crazy christian church.

Here's a Mormon joke for you - - told to me by a Mormon.

Person dies and meets St Peter at the Pearly Gates.

Just inside the gates is a very tall wall. Person asks St. Peter - - what is the purpose of that wall - who is on the other side.

St Peter says: Oh! Those are the Mormons. They thing they are the only ones here.

Before I say my piece I just want to point out I'm not picking on you. I'm merely pointing out some facts...

Originally posted by nicolee123nd An atheist population can become more scientifically advanced, mostly because religious activists won't get in the way. For example, the only reason evolution is a theory and not a law is because there are too many creationists in the equation. Face it, there's too much evidence and nothing to disprove evolution. Aside from evolution, there would be so much more scientific opportunities for the future, such as stem cell research, better birth control, origins of life on earth, searching for life on other planets, origins of the universe, and so much more. All because the Bible isn't stopping us anymore.

Christianity & Science

From the Past
1) Issac Newton -- The bulk of his writings actually dealt with proving the Bible and God.
2) Lewis Pasteur -- Created vaccine against Anthrax & Rabies.
3) Galileo Galilei -- I don't believe he needs an introduction...
4) Johannes Kepler -- Laws of Planetary Motion.
5) Nicolaus Copernicus -- Introduced Heliocentric world view.
6) James Clerk Maxwell -- Independently developed Calculus & Electromagnetic Field Theory.
7) Erwin Schrodinger -- Ever hear of his cat?
8) Werner Heisenberg -- The Heisenberg Principle.
9) Max Planck -- Planck's Constant (Used in Chemistry)
10) Leonard Euler -- Euler's Method (Mathmatics)

Present Day:

1) Charles Hard Townes -- 1964 he won the Nobel Prize in Physics
2) Francis Collins -- Former Director US National Human Genome Research Institute. Helped map the Human Genome.
3) Jennifer Wiseman -- She is Chief of the Laboratory for Exoplanets and Stellar Astrophysics at NASA Goddard Space Flight Center. An aerial of the Center is shown. In addition she is a co-discoverer of 114P/Wiseman-Skiff
4) Stephen C. Meyer -- DNA By Design, former professor before being removed for his beliefs.
5) Martin Nowak -- Professor, Harvard University.

Without those people, your life and mine would be very very different. Science is not impeded by Christianity in anyway. Also in order for something to become a "law" the effect of it must be repeatable. You can't test evolution, there is no way to test it or observe it. I just want to point out its not Christians who are stopping that, its other scientists.

Originally posted by nicolee123ndWithout religion (Christianity in particular), we could have a better society overall. No longer would gays, women, blacks, and anyone else looked down on in some religions be considered lesser citizens. Kids wouldn't be bullied for their beliefs. It's a fact that, if there was no religion, most wars wouldn't have been fought. Some say 90% of wars are started because of religion, some say only 15%, but there is no way to tell really.

It is an utter fantasy to hope that if Christianity were removed from the world people wouldn't be as greedy, or want to sleep with someone else's wife, or steal, or murder, or even drive drunk.

Originally posted by nicolee123ndThere's no debating that America is becoming less and less religious. Do you think this is good or bad? What would you say is up for the future?

America becoming less religious is good. There are a lot of people who look down on others because they're not in the same Church as them or that they hold a certain belief.

When it comes down to it, the only thing that matters in Christianity is what you think of Jesus the Christ. If you do no believe that Jesus is God, there is no salvation.

In the Bible it says that;

In those days [there was] no king in Israel; everyone did [what was] right in his own eyes. -- Judges 17:6

If we have no moral standard in the United States then who is to say that your way is better than mine? Or mine better then yours?

Lastly,

There is a way [that seems] right to a man, But its end [is] the way of death. -- Proverbs 14:12

meaning, this line of thought will probably lead to the end of the United States.

***I know those verses speak on the micro, but I think it applies to the macro as well***

Originally posted by Darkrunner
Get on youtube when you have a chance. Look up Richard Dawkins or Christopher Hitchens. They proselytize atheism as bad as Billy Graham and Jerry Falwell shout about Christianity.

But if I have to go out of my way to listen to what they have to say how is that the same as them knocking in my door?

I don't mind Billy Graham or Jerry Falwell, I don't tune in or click to listen to them.

Why would you keep something to yourself if there is a group which shares your interest. Wouldn't it be fairer for those who don't share the interest to keep away when the others are having their get together?

Originally posted by daskakik

Originally posted by Darkrunner
Get on youtube when you have a chance. Look up Richard Dawkins or Christopher Hitchens. They proselytize atheism as bad as Billy Graham and Jerry Falwell shout about Christianity.

But if I have to go out of my way to listen to what they have to say how is that the same as them knocking in my door?

I don't mind Billy Graham or Jerry Falwell, I don't tune in or click to listen to them.

Why would you keep something to yourself if there is a group which shares your interest. Wouldn't it be fairer for those who don't share the interest to keep away when the others are having their get together?

Indeed it would be, if that is what is was. If it was groups sharing interests, I would be all for it. Unfortunately it's christians spouting their stuff to nonbelievers and atheists giving their take to the christians.

Neither one is going to convince the other.

Personally i think our future is looking better with more people questioning past events and Recorded text.Through time a lot of history has been disproven by science and as the years go on,more religious history will too.To believe in Religion you must have faith..No thanks not for me.

reply to post by Annee


That's one I never heard before, too funny. If this afterlife exists, I think it will probably have like a million walls like that

Originally posted by Koinonia It is an utter fantasy to hope that if Christianity were removed from the world people wouldn't be as greedy, or want to sleep with someone else's wife, or steal, or murder, or even drive drunk.

I totally agree. I wasn't aware there are people who think that.

Originally posted by Koinonia When it comes down to it, the only thing that matters in Christianity is what you think of Jesus the Christ. If you do no believe that Jesus is God, there is no salvation.

So this is all that matters? I thought the main argument is that without Christianity we'd be raping and setting things on fire.

Originally posted by Koinonia In the Bible it says that

Go Dog Go says,

Do you like my hat?

Does that mean the awesome tree at the end is for real?

Originally posted by Koinonia In those days [there was] no king in Israel; everyone did [what was] right in his own eyes. -- Judges 17:6

If we have no moral standard in the United States then who is to say that your way is better than mine? Or mine better then yours?

Lastly,

There is a way [that seems] right to a man, But its end [is] the way of death. -- Proverbs 14:12

meaning, this line of thought will probably lead to the end of the United States.

***I know those verses speak on the micro, but I think it applies to the macro as well***

See, that is what the religious here have been claiming matters about the Bible. Ethics are based on logic. Many morals are based on ethics. We don't need the Bible for this. We need it for what you mentioned earlier, the only thing that matters. Jesus died for our sins to give us everlasting life. You need everyone to believe so you can try to feel justified by the numbers in holding on to a wish that life goes on after that final predator wins.

Originally posted by Darkrunner
Indeed it would be, if that is what is was. If it was groups sharing interests, I would be all for it. Unfortunately it's christians spouting their stuff to nonbelievers and atheists giving their take to the christians.

Neither one is going to convince the other.

I agree that it is very difficult to convince anyone but I meant more like people going to church. That is them gathering because of their interest, and I use interest because it applies to other things as well.

I'm not gonna go stand in front of a church with a big "god is a lie" sign and I agree if that is what someone is doing that then they would do better to keep away, which is what I said.

Now televangelists and youtubeatheists get the audience that wants to see them. No one is forcing you to check them out and if you know that clicking on that link is going to end with you being mad and you do it anyway it's because you want to feel pissed off. I have no problem with not clicking because I already know what it is.

Now here, ATS, it's a little different because it's a chance to interact with people that want a discussion and sometimes someone may put something out there just to see if it will hold water. Sometimes it gets preachy, from any side, but in the end it "is" about trying to convince one another. Deny ignorance is an invitation to "convince me", just gotta remember to bring the proof.

Originally posted by daskakik

Originally posted by kykweer
reply to post by flyingfish

 

TPTB is the conspieacy theory of conspiracy thoery of conspiracy theories, if they can influence what you had for breakfast to a child being raped in africa... I have no doubt that if religion disappeared of the planet today tomorrow something else will be "feeding the power"

I've seen alot of people say they don't believe in TPTB because they don't believe that a small group of men control the world. The truth is that TPTB is anything that excerts control over a person.

No, TPTB in and on ATS sense point to A group of people. You just can't get around that.

Religion doesn't control my life, make me hate people or stop my career in engineering, having a religion doesn't make someone an asshole or controlling... That's just the way people are. We got to change that.

Taking religion away won't solve global warming, poverty and murder and infact those things are on the rise

Religion is disappearing already... For the better of our future? I doubt it.

reply to post by kykweer

Religion doesn't control my life

If this is true your not living by the book.

The point is the Polarization of humanity.
This in it self will insure conflict.

reply to post by flyingfish


So what do you suggest? Everyone be forced into line with one ideal? Or just one side get a majority and slaughter the rest? Simple fact of life is we will always get polarizations and disagreement. What we need is for people to stop turning into a mess by playing us versus thek games.

reply to post by nicolee123nd


Atheism is per fact one of the most dangerous "paths" to take for any human. The human mind is known to be extremly easy to manipulate and by the thinking ways of Atheism you are "blocking" your own mind at several levels. Some people may even say that the thinking of Atheism is making yourself manipulated to a "unintelligent" stage of mind. There is no proof of this,but i really DO understand why this thought has been presented.

Everytime i talk to a Atheist i get shocked and at the same time amazed. I think, wow, is this guy really that unintelligent or what is the problem here?

Originally posted by daskakik

Originally posted by applesthateatpeople reply to post by martinkb

 

athiests are just as blood thirsty as organized religion....or have we forgotten all about the USSR?

Correlation. Might as well say "men with mustaches are just as blood thirsty as organized religion...or have we forgotten the USSR?"

It was an atheist government. It is a lot easier to kill someone, or torture someone if you believe they have no soul. Collectivism is bad. People who gather together in groups do stupid things....even atheists.....even hippies.....even "TPTB". I suggest you brush up on some Ayn Rand. And yes, people with mustaches do seem unusually hostile.....lol

Originally posted by kykweer
No, TPTB in and on ATS sense point to A group of people. You just can't get around that.

Talk about being a bully. I use words in the way I understand them. There is no set way, even on the ATS. Just like people using any other term like the words liberal, socialist, fascist, agnostic, chemtrail, contrail or a bunch of other words that people throw around here just for effect while ignoring their real meaning.

Religion may not control your life but it has been used that way in the past. Also if religion is used to try to pass laws against things that are deemed inappropriate then it is used to control. For example prohibition in the US.

Would eliminating religion make the world a better place? I don't thinks so nor did I say it would be a good thing. I just don't like the way it is used to form public policy.

If we were all Athiest we would advance more than we could ever dream of. Religion just slows us down. Who knows where we could be at if we dropped religion 50 years ago.

Originally posted by applesthateatpeople
It was an atheist government. It is a lot easier to kill someone, or torture someone if you believe they have no soul. Collectivism is bad. People who gather together in groups do stupid things....even atheists.....even hippies.....even "TPTB". I suggest you brush up on some Ayn Rand. And yes, people with mustaches do seem unusually hostile.....lol

People who gather in groups do stupid things. Like people who gather under one god? It's alot easier to kill or torture someone if you think you have gods blessing or doing his work. Check up on the genocides in the old testament.

No one said that the gov of the USSR didn't commit atrocities. Corralation means that the fact that they happen to be X isn't the reason for Y. They would have commited the same acts had they been christian, muslim or made up a whole new religion.

Originally posted by Archirvion The human mind is known to be extremly easy to manipulate

Yes, see all the children being molded into believers.See the masses buy an invisible daddy that promises life will never end. But wait, there's more! If you order now, you will be made part of a privileged group. Well, at least that's worth the ticket price.

Originally posted by Archirvion Everytime i talk to a Atheist i get shocked and at the same time amazed. I think, wow, is this guy really that unintelligent or what is the problem here?

I love to learn, it makes me less ignorant. However, being unintelligent is hard to overcome. Seeing as you know something I don't, could you point out how I and my kind are unintelligent? Are we really biologically defective? Do you think we'd make good greeters at Walmart? Should we just stick to cleaning the port-a-potties? I'll understand if you don't want to try to enlighten me, as I obviously have limited mental abilities.

Originally posted by applesthateatpeople It is a lot easier to kill someone, or torture someone if you believe they have no soul.

Does this have anything to do with me being a vegetarian?

I get the feeling the religious don't think atheists go on same Jungian journey. I'm thinking they don't think we see what they see. I'm betting we do. I think we give different causes to the same effect.

Originally posted by daskakik

Originally posted by kykweer
No, TPTB in and on ATS sense point to A group of people. You just can't get around that.

Talk about being a bully. I use words in the way I understand them. There is no set way, even on the ATS. Just like people using any other term like the words liberal, socialist, fascist, agnostic, chemtrail, contrail or a bunch of other words that people throw around here just for effect while ignoring their real meaning.

Religion may not control your life but it has been used that way in the past. Also if religion is used to try to pass laws against things that are deemed inappropriate then it is used to control. For example prohibition in the US.

Would eliminating religion make the world a better place? I don't thinks so nor did I say it would be a good thing. I just don't like the way it is used to form public policy.

I'm sorry didn't want to appear to be bullying you, but TPTB isn't a social group like the ones you mentioned, but it is a elite group of invisible people controlling things as opposed to tyrants or totalitarians... But that's an off topic debate we can resume another day?

I can't debate over that religion has been used as a motive from a tyrant over his people in the past to attack a certain group or country because HE doesn't like them or HE see's it benefiting him.

And yes some laws in countries get passed with a religious background but the motives are generally good, the Bible had certain laws that has laid the foundations of morality. So maybe that was all faked, but before the Bible people were just bat sh!t crazy and of course silly stupid laws about slavery (which has been abolished already)

And in your local government most of the american population are christian, thus the politicians they elect are mostly christian with representation even for minorities... As in democracy and the reason why America grew to be the super power it is today.

Sure some things in life are unfair, but we need to stop blaming "them"

Originally posted by ObvTruth
If we were all Athiest we would advance more than we could ever dream of. Religion just slows us down. Who knows where we could be at if we dropped religion 50 years ago.

Do you have any way of backing this up? The dark ages have been over for hundreds of years. Maybe money maybe society is holding science back, but blaming religion is like saying the dog ate your homework.

As someone posted earlier, some of the greatest scientific discoveries were made by religious people.

Saying religion is holding us back is just bloated mind control from science fiction like the venus project.