The Growth of Atheism and What it Means for Our Future

reply to post by furzball


i totally agree but why use some posibly ficticous characters and a corrupt book to do it . i have 2 children and raise them to respect things around them especially nature, im not a tree hugger but we have an organic vegetable garden and have taught our children that the wee beastys are not nasty, dangerous or need stamping on but infact help the garden and the enviroment and explain how they compliment the garden . it has had a very positive effect on them . i also volunteer for a SAR team and think this has had a positive effect on them as they spend some time down the station with like minded people and this does rub off on them

reply to post by MrXYZ

If you ever came across a hypothesis which was rational and logical and resonated as "congruent" with your own experience, would you even consider it, or have you already made up your mind..?

Originally posted by furzball
My only qualm about this is that there still needs to be a moral core of ethics taught to children replacing religion. Otherwise a few generations of atheists in, we may be sheeples to law and not questioning it.

Moral code and ethics we can do without organized religion. Are you saying atheists do not know how to debate something? heh.

I have a strict moral code and principles that define me and my lines. Some areas I hold fast to, some areas I fail to live up to and try to improve, and some common society "morals" I have dismissed because it has no relation to my set of principles.

Trust me on this, atheists will definately debate the norm and question illogical laws, rulings, and beliefs. Sort of our trademark if you consider it.

Originally posted by nicolee123nd
If you ever get into a religious conversation with an atheist, at one point the person almost always says "I was raised Christian..." How come you never hear a person say "I was born an atheist..."? This simple notion is evidence that the population of atheists is growing -- religious people are changing their minds!

In America, studies showed that 8% of people were atheist/agnostic/nonreligious in 1990 source That means that the non-faithful population has skyrocketed to almost double in 18 years!

But, why? In my opinion, it has a lot to do with the less restraint that Christianity has on people nowadays (in America, at least). It's now less taboo to doubt God, compared to 60 years ago where if your thoughts even wondered you'd be damned to Hell.If you think back to the pre-1950s, many people considered it taboo to even not attend church every Sunday, to support homosexuality, to have an abortion or even use birth control, etc. The Christian Church had a much stronger hold on us back then. And now that people have the power to think freely, they may realize that they've put their faith in something that they now realize isn't so legitimate.

Some people may see the growth in nonreligious people as a bad thing, weather it's for the sake of their religion or that they just don't like atheists. But I see this as a good thing. I'm an atheist, and I'm gonna admit, I think religion is holding us back from advancing, scientifically and spiritually.

An atheist population can become more scientifically advanced, mostly because religious activists won't get in the way. For example, the only reason evolution is a theory and not a law is because there are too many creationists in the equation. Face it, there's too much evidence and nothing to disprove evolution. Aside from evolution, there would be so much more scientific opportunities for the future, such as stem cell research, better birth control, origins of life on earth, searching for life on other planets, origins of the universe, and so much more. All because the Bible isn't stopping us anymore.

Without religion (Christianity in particular), we could have a better society overall. No longer would gays, women, blacks, and anyone else looked down on in some religions be considered lesser citizens. Kids wouldn't be bullied for their beliefs. It's a fact that, if there was no religion, most wars wouldn't have been fought. Some say 90% of wars are started because of religion, some say only 15%, but there is no way to tell really.



There's no debating that America is becoming less and less religious. Do you think this is good or bad? What would you say is up for the future?

A few things:

1) I don't think evolution would be a law if it weren't for creationists. Scientific laws aren't created by some democracy which has lobbyists arguing what should and should not be a law. While there may be some dissenters in the scientific community that voice creationism, I doubt its enough for evolution to be generally accepted in the scientific field as a law. I think the problem has to do with evolution being so much harder to get concrete evidence for every species that dates back to origins to make it an actual law.

2) I think Atheism is on the rise in the US because many people get taught about evolution in schools, so they have a base knowledge. Meanwhile, they vaguely know about religious doctrines because people aren't going to church as often. So, when they see that evolution essentially overrides creationism, they think that this means there can be no God. You may not think so, but I have had multiple conversations with people who claim to be atheists and believe that b/c of the big bang and evolution it conclusively proves there is no God.

3) You never hear people say they were born atheists because people, according to a recent study, have a NATURAL tendency to believe in God. Whether or not this is evidence that there is a God or evidence that we need to separate ourselves from this line of thinking to truly advance is not the current subject.

4) You say: "Without religion (Christianity in particular), we could have a better society overall." I say: what?!?! Christianity in particular? Christianity's principals were used to found the principals of the United States which were used to form the free citizenry principals of more modern countries. Why is one of the most tolerant religions in the world (yes I understand that oppression and judgment happen, but that will happen with anything as large as christianity), and the arguably most tolerant major religion, the religion that you think would be the most important religion to get rid of to lead to a better society? Oppression from primarily christian nations amounts to trying to get other nations to allow people to be free. Oppression from Islam nations means women have almost no rights. Oppression from Hindi nations results in certain people being lesser than others based on castes. You could argue Judaism oppresses Muslims. The only other religion that can compete with Christianity in terms of tolerance is Budhism.

5) Would it lead to a better society? What do we hold onto from the religions. To me what you are saying is that it would be best to get rid of religions and their principals. So, if we got rid of christianities principles (don't judge, treat everyone like you want to be treated, the ten commandments) I'm not sure the world would be a better place at all. However, I think that's not what you mean. What I think is interesting is the argument about morals. Would getting rid of religions cause people to have less, or almost no, morals? Some would say no, you can be athiest and have the same morals. However, the question has to be were those morals instilled over the long history of ancestors raising younger ancestors and instilling these morals in them which were ultimately derived from religion or christianity, and which now have become cultural customs. Look at India's caste system. It was derived from the Hindu religion, however, it has spread to non-Hindi religions in India. Why? Cultural norms established after a long history of following Hindi. If that was the case, I'd expect you'd see a deterioration in morality over a long period of time, starting with some of the most benign morals (i.e. manners). You say America's atheism rate has nearly doubled since the 90's. I'd like to see how that is broken down by age. I bet a lot of it is mostly younger people. And one thing is for sure: younger people lack manners. Just a thought.

As many people have stated, we are born atheists. To propose a theory of a creating entity without any reliable evidence is shaky. To take this theory as truth is, I feel, a mental disorder. en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by Nomadmonkey

 

Agnostics
Isn't that the same as hang'in out on an electric fence til somebody throws the juice ?
It 's a joke I'm kidding. But seriously ? You think that's correct path?

edit on 12-6-2011 by randyvs because: (no reason given)

Hey Randy.

I think it's the most humble path, in my opinion. How can someone be wrong as to be in the middle???

Put that to any real-world situation and people would be agnostic in those cases:

Person 1 says to Person 3 that Will Smith is coming out with a new movie. Person 1 heard it from Person 2. Since it's just a rumor, is Person 3 really wrong for saying, "It's probably true, but I'd rather wait until I SEE the movie until I believe"?

Seriously - think about that...

I'm Agnostic, and I am not saying that your god exists (and others), and I'm not saying that they DON'T exist. I'm just saying that we don't know yet and we need more proof than what is out there.

reply to post by Annee

As many now Atheists came from a religious background.

Please stop telling us we don't understand. We do.

But do you really understand?

Considering there is an exoteric surface level window shopper version of what everyone grows up with....

And an esoteric true experiential heart and core level.

And give these two levels, even amongst religions themselves, most religious surface walkers have no idea about the inner core.

So do you really understand?

You can take a turd and dress it up in fancy clothes, spray perfume on it and pretend that it is no longer a turd, but the turd still remains. That's how I feel about many organized religions in that their roots consists of control, downplay of thought and intuition, and outsourcing an individual's power of connection to the metaphysical towards clergymen. This has certainly held (and continues to hold) humanity's growth.

reply to post by Silicis n Volvo

everyone is born an atheist...religion is then introduced to them in life. im glad more people today realise its bullsh!t.

Lol ...how can everyone be born an atheist if newborns have no idea about atheism?

pow, Pow, pow!!!!!

Semantics, ain't it a beeyatch!

Originally posted by Ryanp5555
5) Would it lead to a better society? What do we hold onto from the religions. To me what you are saying is that it would be best to get rid of religions and their principals. So, if we got rid of christianities principles (don't judge, treat everyone like you want to be treated, the ten commandments) I'm not sure the world would be a better place at all. However, I think that's not what you mean. What I think is interesting is the argument about morals. Would getting rid of religions cause people to have less, or almost no, morals? Some would say no, you can be athiest and have the same morals. However, the question has to be were those morals instilled over the long history of ancestors raising younger ancestors and instilling these morals in them which were ultimately derived from religion or christianity, and which now have become cultural customs. Look at India's caste system. It was derived from the Hindu religion, however, it has spread to non-Hindi religions in India. Why? Cultural norms established after a long history of following Hindi. If that was the case, I'd expect you'd see a deterioration in morality over a long period of time, starting with some of the most benign morals (i.e. manners). You say America's atheism rate has nearly doubled since the 90's. I'd like to see how that is broken down by age. I bet a lot of it is mostly younger people. And one thing is for sure: younger people lack manners. Just a thought.

So many people of little faith...in Humanity. Don't worry, we'll let you replace Religion with The Ministry of Love if that's your argument.

Originally posted by nicolee123nd

An atheist population can become more scientifically advanced, mostly because religious activists won't get in the way. For example, the only reason evolution is a theory and not a law is because there are too many creationists in the equation. Face it, there's too much evidence and nothing to disprove evolution. Aside from evolution, there would be so much more scientific opportunities for the future, such as stem cell research, better birth control, origins of life on earth, searching for life on other planets, origins of the universe, and so much more. All because the Bible isn't stopping us anymore.

Without religion (Christianity in particular), we could have a better society overall. No longer would gays, women, blacks, and anyone else looked down on in some religions be considered lesser citizens. Kids wouldn't be bullied for their beliefs. It's a fact that, if there was no religion, most wars wouldn't have been fought. Some say 90% of wars are started because of religion, some say only 15%, but there is no way to tell really.



There's no debating that America is becoming less and less religious. Do you think this is good or bad? What would you say is up for the future?

Religious people get in the way of science becuase science goes to the government to get money and the government is there to represent all people the religious and the scientific people. Solution to this find some one better to finance you.

Why, is evolution a theory, because its untestable if they could test evolution in a lab it would become more than a theory. The Bible isn't stoping you now you are just letting it. It is more realistic to say those controling your money is stopping you from moving forward in science.

You are right there would less putting down of people or it would be atleast done differntly. I geuss the main differnce is the people putting people down with no religion would be they wouldn't be hypocrits and liars for doing it they would be honest. I am preety sure hatred would still be with people just differnt.

I do not understand what you mean by that there would be less wars without religion. Have you lived in a world without religion and saw this to be true? Because what I can tell from mankind is we would just find something else to complain about which would some how lead to wars. Maybe if mankind could learn self-control and remain calm there would be less wars.

I'm sure there are good and bad things on both sides of America becoming less religious, but instead of worring about religion why don't you just set your goals and try and reach them. I'm sure there are plenty more people that would love to see all of these things happen and I even bet a religious person would want these things also. Most religious people I have met really don't have a problem with science because if god is what he says science should have no problem proving god does or doesn't exsit. Now the blind believers just following the Church seem to be more of a probelm to me. I don't see them as religious people but just followers not wanting to think.
Still its not those people that have your money and aren't truely stopping you.

The future is deffinitly a test, what I would see happening is the religious, not the followers, becoming more religious as the followers and already scientific people pushing hard in developing science at a much faster rate till we level out. But you would not have to worry about the religious type because the mind has always been a couple steps ahead of science.

Originally posted by dominicus
reply to post by Annee

 

As many now Atheists came from a religious background.

Please stop telling us we don't understand. We do.

But do you really understand?

YES!

And I'm annoyed and tired of people telling me I don't because I am now Atheist.

reply to post by Doublemint

Religious people get in the way of science becuase science goes to the government to get money and the government is there to represent all people the religious and the scientific people. Solution to this find some one better to finance you.

I hope you realize the government isn't the main donor of scientific projects...in fact, it's a TINY minority.

And some religious people are standing in the way of progress by preventing the largely PRIVATELY funded projects to continue. To give you an example, stem cell research!! Just looking at the first results indicates that this would save MILLIONS of lives...but guess who's standing in the way of saving those lives

Why, is evolution a theory, because its untestable if they could test evolution in a lab it would become more than a theory.

You're wrong again. A scientific theory has to be testable by its very definition...which means the theory has been tested. In fact, it's been tested hundreds of times. Many of the meds you're using were developed party because of our understanding of evolution...think about that next time you take antibiotics

There is one thing I know. Most of the atheists/ people who identify as such are some of the most condescending, obnoxious and arrogant people when it comes to dealing with the "poor deluded deists." It seems like they think the only way they can "beat" the Christians is by jumping even further down people's throats.

Just the other day I was chilling on the beach with a bunch of friends and these two little girls came up, like under 10 years old. They asked if any of our group wanted a free bible, one of the religious girls said yes, but some of the others heard what was going on and started getting all angry and talking some seriously rude b/s. I was offended on the religious people's behalf.

Atheists need to calm down a little bit. Love your religious brothers and sisters. You can love somebody who you think is a little bit out there or has some weird beliefs. It is harder when you start considering faith in a religion/ deity to be a mental disorder.

Originally posted by dominicus
Lol ...how can everyone be born an atheist if newborns have no idea about atheism?

Newborns have no idea about nakedness, but they are still born naked.
It's not until they are clothed that they become 'not naked'. And it's not until they are taught about "God" that they become theists. Before that, they do not believe in 'God', and are, BY DEFINITION, atheist.

pow, Pow, pow!!!!!

Semantics, ain't it a beeyatch!

Um... Pow to you! And yes, it is.

This can be both good and bad. It can be good, because people are starting to think for themselves, and prefer not to be deceived. It can be bad, because it may lead to people propagating materialism as the answer to everything.

I, for one, think if you whanna practice religion, any religion, you have every right to do so. I will not judge and we might even have some pretty interesting conversations about the subject as well. It might get heated abit due to the difference of opignion, but who cares. How much fun would it be if it didn't get heated. The point is I wouldn't think any less of you if you were catholic, muslim, budhist or what ever other religion you are.

Although I am agnostic I have studied the history of religion extensively and found over the years that religions has been and remains the main cause of major heart ships and armed conflict arround the world for the last several millennia. I know that those wars have been fueled by greed and the hunger for power but religion has played a big part mostly as an excuse to start the war but religion was and is part of war non the less.

As for the good things religion has brought to this world in part is a sence of community. People gathering at a common place and sharing a common experience which can be very comforting. But if you are like me, even at a very young age when my family was still going to church every sunday. I felt very uncomfortable as if it wasn't natural. For that and other reasons I have abandoned religion. I will not enumerate the reasons why for my post is not intended to bash religions but to show my point of view.

As fo the matter at hand. I beleive that there is a growing population of agnostic/nonreligious/atheists due to precisely that.... education. As we move forward through the age of information, science and the study of all thigns concrete are taking a bigger part in our lives. Over the past 60 years science as explained more about the univers than religion has in the past 5000 years. And that is what people crave, eidence, Evidence is now the new word for God in the hearts and lips of little children.

reply to post by gentledissident


First off, if my argument was that the only reason for religion is morality a ministry of truth would not solve that. What you're missing is repercussions. The ministry of truth provides no incentive to a person who would be otherwise immoral but for religion. As an above poster said, they disregard things that they consider to be silly. So, if there is no incentive for that person to act morally, as a ministry of truth would merely be an advisory counsel on what is right and wrong and not able to enforce any laws I presume, then they would just continue to disregard what they felt was silly.

You say I have little faith in humanity yet you ignore that I'm justified in that belief and you are not. Look at the vast majority of nations in the world and you will see oppression. Yes some of the oppression is due to religious fanaticism but the vast majority of it is immoral people who only crave power and ignore all teachings of religion. Also, as I've stated there are very few countries in the world that allow freedoms to all people. What's the one constant in those countries? A form of government that distrusts individuals (whether it be Congress; parliament; whatever). You could say, but yeah, the theory of humanity incorporates humans a collective and as individuals. Okay, there are some people who are bad out there, but clearly when humans act collectively humanity naturally acts righteously. WRONG. For every civil rights movement there are many more darfur's, rwanda's, kosovo's, even holocausts (on a much much much smaller scale). What I'm saying is that a religions ability to focus on acting in a certain manner may be able to keep people from acting out immorally, thus religion has far more to offer than anyone is giving credit.

reply to post by Q:1984A:1776


"therefore there really could be a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father that can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree... "

Ha Ha Well said millions year old lightning-mud-monkey-man (see I can do that also)

Here is a good article Religion may become extinct in nine nations, study says

Religion is just a throwback to the uneducated trying to explain the workings of nature by inventing something to attribute it and trying to comprehend what we didn't understand.
As we evolve filling in the gaps of our knowledge we find rational scientific explanations for the things that were a mystery in the ancient world, religion has run out of gaps to fill.
Therefor humanity is waking up to the true reality of who we are.