Too Young to Wed-The Secret World of Child Brides: (your aren't gonna believe this one!)

Originally posted by sdcigarpig
Having read the article and the posts, there are a few things that can be stated:
The ultimate problem is not that this is happening, rather it is that it is ultimately a clash of cultures that is happening. We in the west, are raised with a certain sense of morality, what is right and wrong, and yet fail to understand the very culture that the people in the articles live under. While I do not support this action, at the same time a lack of understanding of the cultures that permit this is very disturbing.

It's not just a clash of cultures. So you don't believe in an Absolute Morality, this is the sort of question that can be debated endlessly. I would say that marrying off a prepubescent child is against all common sense. The body is not ready for sex or reproduction.

Consider this, in their eyes, we are decadent, and immoral, as of our lack of faith or as our customs would dictate. Many of what is written, is based around that of the Islamic world, and unfortunately, the only real way to change their perspective would be to approach them, not from a position of being superior, but that of perhaps on their level and work at the level where it lies with in the very hearts of the belief, the clerics. This is where most in the middle east, and India all lie, and ultimately would require edicts and ideas to flow from the mouths of the clerics and Hindu priests to change this from happening.

I think you're naive to think you can reason with these people, especially the Muslim clerics. From the Muslim perspective if Muhammad was a pedaphile (and he was), then they have permission to be pedaphiles. Muhammad is a role model. No amount of reasoning from an Infidel is going to change their minds.

As for Hindu child marriages, in theory, the married child would stay in the home of her parents until she reached puberty and then she would be moved to the groom's household, where the marriage would be consummated.
As indicated in this article, the family was afraid of being noticed by the police. Obviously this type of marriage is ILLEGAL in India nowadays.

It is wrong to push our sense of morality and culture on those who do not want such, just as it is equally wrong for them to expect us to follow their culture. Tolerance is and has to be a 2 way street.

I'm sure the cannibals of New Guinea would welcome your tolerance. No cannibals in NG anymore? Maybe because cannibalism was no longer tolerated.

At the same time, we can not condemn the actions of these people, when you consider that in some countries, such as Thailand, men from the west are willing to travel to just to have sex with young children, and that too would need to stop. Until that stops, then we really are not in a position to take such a moral high ground. Anything else would be hypocrisy. The article is correct it is a world wide problem.

That is an absurd argument. We are not allowed to condemn child marriages, until we can stop all sick Western pedaphiles from raping children?

At least we KNOW Pedaphilia is sick & destructive to children & their society.

Put aside all silly complaints about geographical political correctness here, and try to focus on the concept itself that has been presented here.

Arranged marriages are customary in many places all over the world, and it is certainly not the right of an outsider to criticise such cultural practices in which they themselves play no part. However, the forced marriages on young children is despicable and the more awareness of it is raised, then perhaps the more that can be done to prevent these instances from occurring.

It is a little depressing to note that humanity will cling onto its traditions of religion. I hope that one day people will eventually cast off the shackles of faith and step forth into the realm of enlightenment, of rationality, of knowledge and reason. In the interim, however, there is not much that can be done other than extending the hand of help to those who are victims of skewed cultural practices.

Originally posted by Apollumi

The reflections of casual minds.

This was practiced here in the US. No, not recently. In rural areas, and when life was a tad bit shorter what would pan out is that a man would have to go and get his part of land started. He wouldn't marry until he had made a place for his family to live. When he was established he'd find him a young wife because older women wouldn't be able to bear the number of children needed to help work the piece of land he had. You made your own laborers back then. Get it...?

... But one can think they are oh so grand passing out casual judgment upon another culture....

I am aware that child marriages existed in the US, especially in areas short on grown White women (frontier areas). But generally those girls had at least reached puberty (12, 13 yrs old).

I'm not aware of White men marrying five or six year old girls.

reply to post by AuranVector


What I was suggesting was that before we condone a society for their cultural values, we need to clean up our own back yard. How can we condone their actions when it the largest numbers of pedophiles for the sextourism trade comes from the west? After all it is in Cambodia, and Thailand where this exists and who are the people who frequent and pay for this kind of service? Those from the west. That is fact, so until we stop this little action by the west, then it would not matter if there is a child bride or not. Nor is it fair for us to push our sense of morality on the middle east. Would you be happy if you were forced to live under their sense of morailty, being told what you can and can not do, all cause it may offend them? I would not, nor would anyone. What I am stating is that before we go to try to change the world, and the west is not the ones to talk about such with their purtanical values and senses, perhaps we need to look at our own cultures. Many in the middle east do view the western world with digust as they see it as a place of decadences and faithless, promoting ideas and values that they would abhore and offend them. And if you understand anything about the Islamic world and the muslims or Hindues, or any people with a deep seated faith, it has to start with the Clerics to change the society values, not the common people. They believe what they believe, and such has to be fought on the ideological grounds, not on any other grounds. Anything else would be tantamount to hyporcracy. Forbid the child marriages, yet do nothing to stem the flow of men from the west willing to travel around the world to bed a young child. What would you call that? It is not the middle eastern men who are travelling to those spots, it is people from the west who are. I do not agree with either practice, however until we change to where our actions and words agree, it will only be met with resistence at best, absolute hatred at worst. So you stop one practice only to irritate a group to hatred to commit violence against innocent people. If this is done in the incorrect way, that is what the end result will be. The US and many of the western countries are walking a tight rope with the middle east, India and the surrounding area, do we really need to add gas to a fire that is burning already?

reply to post by anon72


"I really don't know what to say other than I can't believe that in todays world this crap still goes on... no matter what country you're in. People do EVOLVE for pete's sake. These men need to be tracked down and handled accordingly... by vigilante standards.... You have to read the whole artilce.. it's tough.. but please do. The more people that know about these abuses the sooner they can be stopped, I hope. Poor children seem to always get the short end of the stick. And, especially females. Although I did hear in Afganistan they prefer young boys."------unquote

i cant believe that gullible people believe the crap of 911 still today.

i cant believe the people dont rise up with one voice in western countries and demand their governments withdraw from all the foreign illegal wars that the west started.

i cant believe that majority of western people can ignore the hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths caused by and supported by bush, merkel, blair, howard, cameron, gillard etcetera.

how many more innocent children, women and men must die or be handicapped before the general western public awakes from its slumber??



"Good Job National Geograpic for bring this to light."

did national geographic ever do a story on how many children are deformed at birth, or on those that never get a chance to lead a normal life?

It breaks my heart to see this happening to so many innocent children. I don't care whos culture it, it is wrong to put a child through this trauma.

Haven't had a chance to read your article yet, I will later. I saw a good photo essay on this a while back. So very sad moreintelligentlife.com... hink-shes-little-bit-young

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
All those women we had befriended and chatted with ... It was normal and just part of their culture.

And this is big part of the issue.
All those here yelling at the "evil" men need to realise that this stuff simply cant continue if it wasnt for the women HELPING it along.

I picked up this issue of NatGeo not long ago and read through the article.

First, it has squat all to do with religion; it has to do with a culture that considers female children to be worthless except as a salable commodity. This is the case through much of Africa and Asia, regardless of what religion the region falls under.

Second, it is illegal. Even in Wild-West Afghanistan or Yemen, child marriage is 100% illegal... it's just unenforced due to corruption in the system.

And third, dealing with it is WAY more complicated than it looks. You might think it's a simple thing to just "rescue" the girl in question, but it's not. All sorts of monkeywrenches are thrown into the works; any result can be garnered from literal tribal wars over the dowry to assassinations (the story mentions an Afghani police officer who was murdered after she responded to a fight between a 15 year old and her 35 year-old "husband.") The solution most of the helper organizations recommend is education and working with the parents to understand that the girl children have worth beyond dowries. That's the key. 'Cause the truth is, if you're going in there and yanking daughters to safety, all that's likely to happen is to entrench the practice and make it MORE dangerous for the girls.

Now for the poster upthread... no. No, this is NOT a "clash of cultures." This is rape and child abuse, and I don't give a damn how indoctrinated the girl is into accepting it, the absolute fact of the matter is there is no way to justify it, much less as "cultural practice." I'm all for a world where the many cultures of the globe go on strong and vibrant, but let's be honest, there's a lot of stuff out there that has no positive value even for the people who practice it.

Originally posted by alfa1

Originally posted by greeneyedleo
All those women we had befriended and chatted with ... It was normal and just part of their culture.

And this is big part of the issue.
All those here yelling at the "evil" men need to realise that this stuff simply cant continue if it wasnt for the women HELPING it along.

You're not getting it, Alfa. You obviously do not understand that women (in that part of the world) do not even have basic human rights. Women are basically powerless in that part of the world.

So you're asking these women to risk beatings, rape and death for defying their male "masters"?

The men (in that part of the world) have to change: they have to allow females basic human rights.

Originally posted by anon72
reply to post by XmikaX

 

If it is all good by the locals standards then why do they to the marriages in the middle of the night? And are worried about being caught?

Doesn't sound to legit to me.

where did i say that ??

I've, on the opposite, pointed out that there are many people locally that work on those issues, that work to educate those extremely poor villagers to stop those practices. people that understand better than you (and judge less than you, they act instead).

this documentary is sensationalist and disinfo because it doesn't take this in account; because it let you believe that those children marriage lead to child abuse which is a lie. as a matter of fact in most cases, the girl although married STAYS in her family until she is 14/16.

there is a huge unsupported stretch between arranged children marriage and child abuse and you american that are screaming "oh evil" just don't understand the paradigm in which lives those extremely poor villagers so you are not in position to judge anything. if you want to understand, go to Rajasthan, spend the first year learning the language, the second living in a village to learn how they think and see the world then maybe you'll have the legitimacy to come forward to expose the problem and propose a viable solution.

I can tell what you'll find out apart the fact that this documentary was biased and sensationalist rather than informative : the roots of the problem are a lack of money and a lack of education, not the evil haunting those people mind.

just sweep in front your house before sweeping other people house. In fact there are more child abuse in your world than in their world; but you guys are educated and have the money. find the solutions for your problems and let the good people in their world find the solutions for their problems.

Originally posted by AuranVector


You're not getting it, Alfa. You obviously do not understand that women (in that part of the world) do not even have basic human rights. Women are basically powerless in that part of the world.

lol, i can tell you've never met an indian woman !

Originally posted by LadySkadi

What does America have to do with this thread?

i'm seeing lots of americans in this thread allowing themselves to judge people on the other side of the planet without perspectives or critical thinking whatsoever, calling evil people they don't have a clue about, nor about their condition of life, nor about their representation of the world, all this on the exclusive basis of a TV sensationalist & disinformative show.

TV images-emotion-judgment(-bombing)

doesn't remind you anything ? really ? me reminds me USA, the greatest exporter of sex tourists, the greatest provider of pedophilia networks in this world doing business as usual.

Originally posted by XmikaX

Originally posted by AuranVector


You're not getting it, Alfa. You obviously do not understand that women (in that part of the world) do not even have basic human rights. Women are basically powerless in that part of the world.

lol, i can tell you've never met an indian woman !

Actually, I have met numerous East Indian Hindu women, but the women I met were upper-caste, well-educated and comparatively well treated.

My comment should have specified class & religion. The worst abuses are among Muslims, especially the poor.

Originally posted by XmikaX
now there are some problem with children being married too early, but none of you are qualified to be judge in those cases. and certainly not national geographic either.

Just curious. Isn't the husband supposed to wait until the girl is of age (has her menstrual)?

Isn't it more like she becomes a "slave" to the women of the household. Maybe not slave - but she learns what is expected of her while living as part of the man's family?

Isn't it also cultural that women are a burden - so they marry them young - so the husband's family is then responsible for them - and it removes the burden on their own family?

Most people automatically think sex - - and I don't think that is what it is about culturally. Although - of course - some husbands do take advantage and do not wait as they are supposed to.

I personally dont agree with it, BUT...

Thou shalt not mess or contaminate other's cultures or try to impose your beliefs or way of life to any other country no matter how much it shocks you or how much you disagree with it.

Their land, their culture, their laws. If that starts to happen in your own country, then fight it, revolt or exercise your rights against it... until then, please stop messing with other people's cultures.

Isn't the husband supposed to wait until the girl is of age (has her menstrual)?

and the girl is supposed to stay with her family (and keep going to school)

Originally posted by Annee
Isn't it more like she becomes a "slave" to the women

spot on : most of the violence done on women is done... by other women

Isn't it also cultural that women are a burden - so they marry them young - so the husband's family is then responsible for them - and it removes the burden on their own family?

it's not cultural; what's cultural is that the couple lives at the boy 's place (and that the dowry is considered a share on the heritage); when they are poor to have a boy means security for the old days; to have a girl means they'll have to give away their heritage so the most early the cheapest dowry they'll pay. it's not that they don't love their girls because they do; it's really : they are poor, so poor you cannot imagine.

Most people automatically think sex - - and I don't think that is what it is about culturally. Although - of course - some husbands do take advantage and do not wait as they are supposed to.

the husband will be as much virgin as the girl... i'd think it'd be very marginal a married child abuse before age by her child hsuband, far less a problem than sick fathers abusing daughters which is a huge and dramatic (hidden) issue in the west (have you seen any statistics on sex workers vs child abused by a member of their family : they are more or less the same girls)

Originally posted by XmikaX

Originally posted by Annee
Isn't it more like she becomes a "slave" to the women

spot on : most of the violence done on women is done... by other women

Thanks - yeah that's kind of what I thought. From documentaries and stuff I've seen and read.

Women of these cultures have to want to progress independently from the culture. But many (probably most) believe in the culture.

Geeze - we still have plenty of women in America who believe God made them a companion and helpmate to man. That their sole purpose is to be subservient to their husband.

Originally posted by FraternitasSaturni
I personally dont agree with it, BUT...

Thou shalt not mess or contaminate other's cultures or try to impose your beliefs or way of life to any other country no matter how much it shocks you or how much you disagree with it.

Their land, their culture, their laws. If that starts to happen in your own country, then fight it, revolt or exercise your rights against it... until then, please stop messing with other people's cultures.

I'm sorry, no. If your culture advocates raping a child, then your culture - at least that part of it - is absolute garbage, and needs to be done away with. There simply is no justification for this sort of thing.

Arranged marriage, fine - so long as the option of a non-arranged is out there as well. Child marriage? No. I don't give a flip if they "wait until she's 14" - and that's certainly not always the case - You think 14 is a good age to start being some dude's wide, a mother to children? It's not. Physically, mentally, emotionally, there's no way she's set for that.

Not only does the child herself suffer, but the society around her suffers as well - what degrades one person degrades everyone around them. That's a child who will not receive an education. it's a child who will live as a practical prisoner under the authority of her "husband" and the baggage of this "culture" like a millstone around her neck.

We're not talking something like "Ewww, you eat worms in your culture" we're talking about the degradation and abuse of another human being. A sort of abuse that even the countries where it happens have outlawed it.

Basically if it comes down to preserving your culture or preserving the well-being of another human being, well, # your culture.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
I'm sorry, no. If your culture advocates raping a child, then your culture - at least that part of it - is absolute garbage, and needs to be done away with.

Just curious - but where do you get raping a child from?

Not that it doesn't happen - - but is that the norm?

Or is it media sensationalism?