I am an Existentialist

I read many posts from "atheists" and "theists" on this forum... an interesting dichotomy, both claiming they know truth and that they base their lives on it...

I don't waste time with the question of "is there a God", because frankly it doesn't matter. I could care less either way because I am an existentialist... I have this conglomeration of fears, desires, pain and pleasure that I have to contend with, and none of your arguments do anything for that.

Sure religions start by a few people trying to solve these issues... just as science starts with some people trying to remove ambiguity about the objective world, sometimes with an impact on the beliefs of the subjective world. But in the end YOUR religion can say little about MY world... and YOUR science can't do diddly for MY sense of meaning...

The early 19th century philosopher Søren Kierkegaard is regarded as the father of existentialism. He maintained that the individual is solely responsible for giving her or his own life meaning and for living that life passionately and sincerely, in spite of many existential obstacles and distractions including despair, angst, absurdity, alienation, and boredom.

That's right, it's on us... WE alone are responsible for the meaning in our life, and anyone who tells you that you are wrong for that is a piss ant trying to get you to see things their way in order to validate their own sense of authority...

But the hell with that.. take your own sense of authority... if you are religious.. BE YOUR OWN GOD... if you are a Scientist... I hope that brings you a deep sense of meaning, solace and self narrative when your world blows up from nuclear destruction....

Subsequent existentialist philosophers retain the emphasis on the individual, but differ, in varying degrees, on how one achieves and what constitutes a fulfilling life, what obstacles must be overcome, and what external and internal factors are involved, including the potential consequences of the existence or non-existence of God. Many existentialists have also regarded traditional systematic or academic philosophy, in both style and content, as too abstract and remote from concrete human experience. Existentialism became fashionable in the post-World War years as a way to reassert the importance of human individuality and freedom.

That's right.. individuality... the individual is the only one responsible for their state of mind... there are both external and internal influences... but the responsibility lies solely with the individual to create/maintain their own sense of meaning...

Man exists in a state of distance from the world that he nonetheless remains in the midst of. This distance is what enables man to project meaning into the disinterested world of in-itselfs. This projected meaning remains fragile, constantly facing breakdown for any reason — from a tragedy to a particularly insightful moment. In such a breakdown, we are put face to face with the naked meaninglessness of the world, and the results can be devastating.

So don't tell me about what's real or what's not.... talk to me about how people deal with pain, loss, hunger, tragedy.... don't tell me about how stupid someone is for believing one thing over another.. unless you judge your worthiness in terms of supposed intelligence... and if that's the case... I pity you... you can not become intelligent enough to remove yourself from the human condition of fear, doubt, pain, neurosis and psychosis....

reply to post by HunkaHunka

I don't waste time with the question of "is there a God", because frankly it doesn't matter

Probably true i'd say as well except Religion provides segregation and conflict between societies.

Religion/God A contrived Term by Humans Thousands of years ago; most likely to cope with the fact that life is cruel the Universe is a dark and brutal place; the hope they can attain eternal life in a blissful perfect world after Death.

Personally i believe we are non-existent after Death. Thats just My own opinion though

TO EACH HIS OWN

Also a powerful tool for the elites to control and orchestrate society

reply to post by HunkaHunka


Your an existentialist you say..............great!!!!

See I've been having this small dilemma for years now and I hope you can help me out. You see I'm a big Garfield fan and I must have read every single comic strip made but there is one I never "got"....

Garfield, November 4th 2000

I know, I know, I could have made an effort trying to understand the whole concept of existentialism but I was just hoping that one day I would run into one.......and here we are.

Personally I lack any form of -ism (I think...or is that some kind of -ism by itself??).

Peace

reply to post by TheUniverse


I agree with you, and i disagree with the OP. I think the "is there a God" debate is VERY IMPORTANT.

Especially, when there are suicidal bombers out there who think God has willed their despicable acts, and that they will be "saved" in some kind of magical afterlife.

Those who are complacent or nonchalent regarding the apocolypse (or destruction of our species) because they believe it's part of "GOD's plan" and that he will save those who put "faith" in him.

Religious dogma causes prejudice. I'm not going deter from that position for the sake of "forum etiquette".

Originally posted by operation mindcrime
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

Your an existentialist you say..............great!!!!

See I've been having this small dilemma for years now and I hope you can help me out. You see I'm a big Garfield fan and I must have read every single comic strip made but there is one I never "got"....

Garfield, November 4th 2000

I know, I know, I could have made an effort trying to understand the whole concept of existentialism but I was just hoping that one day I would run into one.......and here we are.

Personally I lack any form of -ism (I think...or is that some kind of -ism by itself??).

Peace

LOL that's pretty funny... so basically he had an encounter with himself... he came face to face with himself... that is an existential experience.... the fact that it is Garfield and that he responds to it with his authentic way, is the comedy

Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by TheUniverse

 

I agree with you, and i disagree with the OP. I think the "is there a God" debate is VERY IMPORTANT.

Especially, when there are suicidal bombers out there who think God has willed their despicable acts, and that they will be "saved" in some kind of magical afterlife.

Those who are complacent or nonchalent regarding the apocolypse (or destruction of our species) because they believe it's part of "GOD's plan" and that he will save those who put "faith" in him.

Religious dogma causes prejudice. I'm not going deter from that position for the sake of "forum etiquette".

Feeling justified for atrocities is not simply the realm of those who believe in God... it's the realm of anyone who is offended... so perhaps you should work more on removing the mechanism which generates the sense of being offended....

reply to post by HunkaHunka


I'm not offended. I just want to stop that type of preaching, that type of sinister belief in God, that militias can use to justify their evil deeds.

If you truly believe in the Muslim God, then all other people are not doing the will of God, that creates room for some prejudice, i know you'll disagree with that.

You can say "moderates" tolerate people of a different faith, and that's because they cherry pick the doctrines of the faith they believe in.

Hellfire is preached in Christianity, if we truly believe the Christian doctrines; Muslims, Atheists, jews, or Deists (belief in God) are going to hell!.

reply to post by awake_and_aware

You completely missed my point...

You don't have to believe in God to do stuff like blow people up... one simply has to be offended... God is just a justification... without a belief in God, they would still have a justification in the fact they were offended to the degree they were....

It's cultural... not theological....

reply to post by HunkaHunka

It's cultural... not theological.

Are you serious? Are you being intellectually honest here?

Matyrdom and Jihad are concepts taught in the QuRan, to say a suicide bombing is simply a cultural phenonemon seems to be dishonest.

Have you read the manifestoes of these cults? Have you read the religiously justified propanda? Have you heard of the Deobundi Islamic Movement?

Have you even read the QuRan and studied what's going on in the Middle-East, in Theocratic ruled states like Saudi-Arabia, and Iran, where women are still being stoned (as in scripture) by state commandment!

Sura 5:51: “O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: they are but friends and protectors to each other. And he among you that turns to them for friendship is of them.”

Sura72:15 “The disbelievers are the firewood of hell.”

ura 4:89 “seize them and slay them wherever you find them: and in any case take no friends or helpers from their ranks.”

Sura 9:14 “Fight them and Allah will punish them by your hands, cover them with shame, help you to victory over them, heal the breasts of the Believers.” Fight (kill) them (non-Muslims), and God will punish, (torment) them by your hands, cover them with shame. (Surah 9:14 at-Taubah 9:14)

www.letusreason.org...

Just a cultural thing? I honestly don't think so, of course if this believed to be "The Word of God" they will take it serious, they will commit atrocities thinking they will gain their afterlife for serving Allah.

reply to post by awake_and_aware


You seem to think that atrocities are limited to islam... what about christianity? what about any tribal religion? What about the atheists like you who believe that by wiping out these religions that you can some how wipe out the atrocities... you can't... it's not about their theology...

What corrupt theology did the Kamikaze pilots believe in? Was it Jihad? Or was it simply alliance to the Emperor?

You see the issue here is not whether or not God exists... it's much deeper in humanity than that.

reply to post by HunkaHunka

You seem to think that atrocities are limited to islam...

Not at all, that was just one example to refute the fact you said it was a "cultural" issue.

. what about christianity?

The list of their atrocities for centuries is massive. The priests have a lot to apologise for, as they stand on the shoulders of those who threatened mothers with their children's eternal soul, and waged holy war, fully thinking God was on their side.

History explains alot. Their preaching is opressive and sinister. Not ALL of it. Perhaps it was appropriate for the time (perhaps not).

what about any tribal religion?

What's your point? Some tribes believed (or still believe) eating the flesh of humans is "holy" (cannibalism)

What about the atheists like you who believe that by wiping out these religions that you can some how wipe out the atrocities... you can't... it's not about their theology...

What are you suggesting? What "lack of belief in a god" regime has caused the death and destruction of millions of people? Then ask yourself the same for religion.

What corrupt theology did the Kamikaze pilots believe in? Was it Jihad? Or was it simply alliance to the Emperor?

How dare you imply that was in the name of "Atheism" - Many british soldiers sacrificed their lives, thinking they were doing the greater good for their country, not because of a lack of belief in God.

Do you know what each of the pilots was going through? Do you know about the communist regime there? What they had been told by their superiors, or family, or friends.

You see the issue here is not whether or not God exists... it's much deeper in humanity than that.

Deism is one thing, but Theism (religion) is rediculous, morality, philosophy and metaphysics doesn't come from religion, it precedes. People are more than entitled to a belief in God, just don't force that down our future generation's necks, don't preach dogma to them, because is so obviously man-made, it's rediculous and its not even a pleasant story; it's not apparent whether God is the protagonist or the antagnoist.

It's abuse to teach this as "truth" though.

reply to post by HunkaHunka


...atheism is not a fundamentally important issue, but it's still a question. I'm an a-unicornist as well, but nobody really cares to talk about unicorns or claim that they're real.

I'd suggest you actually read up properly about existentialism if you haven't, your understanding of it seems...a bit shallow. It's a bit of an easy nut to crack..deceptively easy. It's got a lot of problems at its core.

And...existentialism comes in many varieties.

I prefer to not label myself an existentialist, as it adds a lot more baggage than atheism. Atheism is merely not believing in a deity, it's just one thing. There's a lot of room for variety...existentialism is a whole set of philosophical assertions...well, several sets.

reply to post by awake_and_aware

Theism (religion) is rediculous,

Ok then, you answered the question as to whether or not allegories in religious texts are seen as worthwhile by you or other atheists....

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


Existentialism is not something you read about... it's something you experience....

Yes, many folks who have come face to face with their own realities have indeed written about it... it's one of the few ways to exorcise the demons one comes to know....

I'm sorry the pain of my own existence is not deep enough for you....

Theism deals with an ultimate concern, Atheism stands in contradiction to this ultimate concern...

The existential experience rips through both of these as outmoded patterns of thought, and plunks the man down into a situation where the concept of whether or not God exists is a futile question to worry about from either perspective. For the question is whether or not I will continue to exist, whether or not my existence is a real and authentic existence.... whether or not the pain that one feels in this existence is worth the pleasure that surely waits as well....

It deals with the ultimate concern of meaning...

reply to post by HunkaHunka

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
I read many posts from "atheists" and "theists" on this forum... an interesting dichotomy, both claiming they know truth and that they base their lives on it...

Most atheists aren't gnostic. Most are agnostic, not claiming to KNOW the truth, but simply not holding a belief in a deity. I am an agnostic atheist. But I don't base my life on that. I find no 'meaning' in atheism. The thought is absurd to me. The only place I even mention it is on here. It's really a very insignificant part of who I am.

Having said that, I also believe STRONGLY in the individual's responsibility for the quality and meaning of their own life. Is there such a thing as an agnostic atheistic existentialist?

reply to post by HunkaHunka

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
reply to post by madnessinmysoul

 

Existentialism is not something you read about... it's something you experience....

No, existentialism is a line of philosophical thought that contains many varying opinions on similar issues. You did introduce this thread with Kierkagaard, didn't you?

Yes, many folks who have come face to face with their own realities have indeed written about it... it's one of the few ways to exorcise the demons one comes to know....

This is starting to sound awfully emo. I'd just like to point out that people tried to explain the human experience, not the individual experience. Try reading Sartre's commentaries on freedom.

I'm sorry the pain of my own existence is not deep enough for you....

Theism deals with an ultimate concern, Atheism stands in contradiction to this ultimate concern...

No, atheism deals with a lack of belief in any deity, nothing more or less.

The existential experience rips through both of these as outmoded patterns of thought, and plunks the man down into a situation where the concept of whether or not God exists is a futile question to worry about from either perspective.

You really don't understand existentialism. You're basically arguing for nihilism.

For the question is whether or not I will continue to exist, whether or not my existence is a real and authentic existence.... whether or not the pain that one feels in this existence is worth the pleasure that surely waits as well....

...so you're basically just going to assume that a deity exists as a theist and that there is a pleasurable afterlife.

It deals with the ultimate concern of meaning...

No, it really doesn't. Existentialism, as its name implies, deals with...existence.

reply to post by HunkaHunka


Apparently you ignored my response to this question, yet you decided to take something out of context from another user to confirm your bias.

awake_and_aware wrote:

Deism is one thing, but Theism (religion) is rediculous, morality, philosophy and metaphysics doesn't come from religion, it precedes. People are more than entitled to a belief in God, just don't force that down our future generation's necks, don't preach dogma to them, because is so obviously man-made, it's rediculous and its not even a pleasant story; it's not apparent whether God is the protagonist or the antagnoist.

This has nothing to do with any allegories or stories or fables and was not in response to that. Hell, you took a middle bit of a single sentence out of context from within a pretty chunky paragraph.

Congratulations to awake_and_aware, you know you've really made it when they start quote mining you!

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


You are a funny person....



Do you realize you have a penchant for telling others how wrong you think they are? This is in stark contrast to trying to understand why others feel the way they do... Such is the mark of most, ( not all ) atheists I know... They worship at the altar of "right and wrong" invalidating emotions as they go....

Of course this is no different from the religious fanatics i know too

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by HunkaHunka

 

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
I read many posts from "atheists" and "theists" on this forum... an interesting dichotomy, both claiming they know truth and that they base their lives on it...

Most atheists aren't gnostic. Most are agnostic, not claiming to KNOW the truth, but simply not holding a belief in a deity. I am an agnostic atheist. But I don't base my life on that. I find no 'meaning' in atheism. The thought is absurd to me. The only place I even mention it is on here. It's really a very insignificant part of who I am.

Having said that, I also believe STRONGLY in the individual's responsibility for the quality and meaning of their own life. Is there such a thing as an agnostic atheistic existentialist?

You know, my issue may very well be that I don't know enough female atheists....

I still stand with the fact that i don't even worry about whether a god exists or not... Like you, its something i really only talk about here...

reply to post by HunkaHunka


LOL, I thought madness was the funny one?