Man Vs. Nature; And, Why We Are Destroying The Planet

DISCLAIMER: This post is NOT intended to "put down" any worldview, as good or bad - life is just not that black and white. Rather, it is to show how they evolve over time, and how our current worldview has created many of the problems we face, both within science and religion.

Both science and western religion are suffering from the same affliction in thought, and it all started, most noticeably, thousands of years ago in the myth of creation, better known as the story of the Garden of Eden. Of course, the seeds for this story were planted in earlier beliefs, but this is where it really jumps onto the stage.

This is where man was set against nature. In the Garden of Eden, man was one with nature and one with God, for God walked through the Garden "in the cool of the day". But when he was thrown out of the Garden for eating the apple, he was set against nature and set against God.

This is something that factors into the psychology and evolution of the Western mind, and is essentially what gave birth to materialism. When one no longer feels connected to the "whole", or connected to nature, the ego gains strength, and mankind gains a greater predisposition to differentiate – to differentiate the whole into parts, or reductionism . This is the "force" behind materialism.

This is something that sets us apart from the Eastern religions, who believe in philosophy of interdependence and living in harmony with the "whole". This is opposed to the Western man who believes more in "rugged individualism", or the man who can set himself above nature and is dependent on no one or no thing, but rather only on him, or herself.

The Eastern mind, on the other hand, has placed too much emphasis on the spiritual beyond, with little concern for the material.

This is all speaking generally, of course, about general trends in thought. Clearly, even though China has thousands of years of Eastern religious thought influencing it, in more modern times it is also now has the strong western influences of capitalism, materialism and technology working within it.

This has all had two main results:

(1) Our worldview is to "dominate" nature, and control it, which we accomplish via a materialistic science and the technology it creates.

(2) It has created religions wherein man feels himself set apart from nature and from God, and views himself as a sinful subject. It has also instituted guilt as a "virtue".

Alan Watts talks about all this in a video series here:

www.youtube.com...

For a more modern viewpoint Michael Ruppert also talks about this here:

Michael Ruppert

And he also has this youtube clip in there, which offers some wisdom from a Hopi Indian perspective.

Hopi

A few lessons can be learned from all this

(1) We can learn where we are going, by knowing where we have been. Our current worldviews are the product of thousands of years of evolution in thought. And, all worldviews are ultimately self-limiting (i.e. we need to keep them evolving, or we risk stagnation, and potentially catastrophe)

(2) We are not as independent as we think we are. And, we need to get back in touch with the idea of interdependence - that everything in nature is part of a greater whole, and that it all exists in harmony. If we don't get into harmony with it, we could destroy the planet and ourselves

(3) We need to regain some of the ancient wisdom we've lost and integrate it with the modern knowledge we have gained from science.

(4) We must start thinking globally. The age where nations (and individuals) think only in terms of their own self interests must come to an end. It's going to take ALL of us to move forward in a positive way.

reply to post by EthanT

Nice layout and expression EthanT, and I agree. So often we feel that we are in an 'either or' situation when really some middle ground needs to be sought. It is not healthy to shun spiritualism 1005, nor is it good to shun materialism 100%. I dug the Watts bit, and I have a perspective of his in my signature.
The hopi Stuff was relevant too, and how anyone can truly feel detached from nature and each other, is beyond me.
The whole domination thing is just not balanced. Rather, we should commune with nature, learn from her, and create/design in a harmonious way with her, after all she provides so much in terms of food, shelter, medicine and of course inspiration. I see our planet as a living mother type of organism, providing life and sustenance, so IMO we should honor her.
A little perspective, Sagan style:


Peace,
spec

It is arrogant to think that man is capable of destroying the planet. Nothing we do harms this planet, only OUR environment. The Earth cleanses it self and renews itself over time.

The thing is is that we aren't destroying the planet but instead are destroying ourselves.

Originally posted by OptimusSubprime
It is arrogant to think that man is capable of destroying the planet. Nothing we do harms this planet, only OUR environment. The Earth cleanses it self and renews itself over time.

Are you retarded or is that just a joke? (sorry for being so rash but i had to say it)

I agree with Optimus and Viking too, we will destroy humanity long before the planet, but I do think we can make a difference in the quality of life for many, by maintaing balance. Greed and corruption should be checked when it comes to obliterating natural resources via leveling mountains for coal mining, clear-cutting, chemical agents for pesticide/fertilization, tainting water supplies etc....
Without management and renewable energy efforts, the finite resources will dry up instead of perennially providing.

Peace,
spec

Originally posted by OptimusSubprime
It is arrogant to think that man is capable of destroying the planet. Nothing we do harms this planet, only OUR environment. The Earth cleanses it self and renews itself over time.

Are we not part of the planet? By destroying ourselves, are we not destroying another part of the planet?

I agree that the Earth might just purify itself of humans if we get too out of harmony, and a planet will still be here.

But, the point of my post was to recognize that we ARE the result of the evolution of the planet, and therefore we are a part of the whole.

I think we are a good thing on this planet (or at least have the potential to be) ... if we destroy ourselves, we destroy something good of the planet.

reply to post by speculativeoptimist


Nice Sagan video! And, your Alan Watts quote is very fitting for this ;-)

Originally posted by Viking9019
The thing is is that we aren't destroying the planet but instead are destroying ourselves.

I agree, that is the way to look at it.

Originally posted by ObvTruth

Originally posted by OptimusSubprime
It is arrogant to think that man is capable of destroying the planet. Nothing we do harms this planet, only OUR environment. The Earth cleanses it self and renews itself over time.

Are you retarded or is that just a joke? (sorry for being so rash but i had to say it)

Whatever helps you sleep better... yes I'm very serious, and clearly you are incapable of articulating a counterpoint of any significance, and instead stick to the status quo of name calling and personal attacks, so go drink some more Al Gore Kool Aid and have fun driving your Prius.

Originally posted by ObvTruth

Originally posted by OptimusSubprime
It is arrogant to think that man is capable of destroying the planet. Nothing we do harms this planet, only OUR environment. The Earth cleanses it self and renews itself over time.

Are you retarded or is that just a joke? (sorry for being so rash but i had to say it)

Because I don't like repeating myself in similar threads, you can see what I have to say on the issue HERE

Originally posted by speculativeoptimist
I agree with Optimus and Viking too, we will destroy humanity long before the planet, but I do think we can make a difference in the quality of life for many, by maintaing balance. Greed and corruption should be checked when it comes to obliterating natural resources via leveling mountains for coal mining, clear-cutting, chemical agents for pesticide/fertilization, tainting water supplies etc....
Without management and renewable energy efforts, the finite resources will dry up instead of perennially providing.

Peace,
spec

Finally, a rational argument. Nicely put and well said.

Originally posted by OptimusSubprime

Originally posted by ObvTruth

Originally posted by OptimusSubprime
It is arrogant to think that man is capable of destroying the planet. Nothing we do harms this planet, only OUR environment. The Earth cleanses it self and renews itself over time.

Are you retarded or is that just a joke? (sorry for being so rash but i had to say it)

Whatever helps you sleep better... yes I'm very serious, and clearly you are incapable of articulating a counterpoint of any significance, and instead stick to the status quo of name calling and personal attacks, so go drink some more Al Gore Kool Aid and have fun driving your Prius.

Lol....I remember telling you something like that for calling me a name...Lol

So cutting down millions of trees and polluting our air, killing animals almost to the point of extinction, and creating weapons that could annihilate just about all life on Earth isnt bad?

We must start thinking globally. The age where nations (and individuals) think only in terms of their own self interests must come to an end. It's going to take ALL of us to move forward in a positive way

reply to post by EthanT


hey ya know bilderberg is going on right now. I mean it sounds like you could be a keynote speaker. I am joking with you. But I do disagree with the end of nation states theory you have there.

As for the adam and eve and the garden thing. I mean I think you may have a point and is very interesting to think about. That when when adam disobeyed the law of nature set by god humans were against nature. Now maybe the truth of the matter might be when we as humans re ject or think we are better then nature we cannot truly be one withour selves or be the most gifted human beings we are meant to be or come to our true potential. when we think we our above nature.

Originally posted by American-philosopher
hey ya know bilderberg is going on right now. I mean it sounds like you could be a keynote speaker. I am joking with you. But I do disagree with the end of nation states theory you have there.

Just to be clear, I didn't mean to imply nation states need to go away. They just need to change the way they operate within the world.

I don't beleive in a one-world government type of thing. As aesthetic as it might sound, I think it can be incredibly dangerous too.

Originally posted by American-philosopher
As for the adam and eve and the garden thing. I mean I think you may have a point and is very interesting to think about. That when when adam disobeyed the law of nature set by god humans were against nature. Now maybe the truth of the matter might be when we as humans re ject or think we are better then nature we cannot truly be one withour selves or be the most gifted human beings we are meant to be or come to our true potential. when we think we our above nature.

Good point!

Originally posted by EthanT

Originally posted by OptimusSubprime
It is arrogant to think that man is capable of destroying the planet. Nothing we do harms this planet, only OUR environment. The Earth cleanses it self and renews itself over time.

Are we not part of the planet? By destroying ourselves, are we not destroying another part of the planet?

I agree that the Earth might just purify itself of humans if we get too out of harmony, and a planet will still be here.

But, the point of my post was to recognize that we ARE the result of the evolution of the planet, and therefore we are a part of the whole.

I think we are a good thing on this planet (or at least have the potential to be) ... if we destroy ourselves, we destroy something good of the planet.

edit on 10-6-2011 by EthanT because: (no reason given)

Ecologically speaking we are no different than any other form of life. Everything we produce is made up of resources that come from the Earth, and the biproducts of said production (CO2, etc...) are just as natural. We are no different than the beaver that builds a dam.

Originally posted by OptimusSubprime
Ecologically speaking we are no different than any other form of life. Everything we produce is made up of resources that come from the Earth, and the biproducts of said production (CO2, etc...) are just as natural. We are no different than the beaver that builds a dam.

There is a very important difference. With humans, (self-)consciousness has evolved to the extent that we can actively and willfully contribute to the evolution of the planet for good, OR for bad.

Beavers (and most of the animal kingdom) are in harmony with their environment. Man, in many cases, is not.

No species on this planet has had anywhere near the capability of destruction on the scale that we do. Therefore, I'd say we have a bit more responsibility to the Earth than your average beaver.

The estimated age of this planet is over 4 and a half billion years, it has gone through many ecological crisis, to think that us humans can kill it off is imho a tad egotistical.

What we can and what we most probably will do though, is cause the destruction of our own species and many others along the way.

Originally posted by dizzylizzy
The estimated age of this planet is over 4 and a half billion years, it has gone through many ecological crisis, to think that us humans can kill it off is imho a tad egotistical.

Well, obviously the wording of my title was bad. And, it's a bit disappointing.

I, in no way, meant that we can make the Earth "disappear", or something.

The whole point I was trying to make is to live in harmony with the planet, which is the exact opposite of any type of egotistical view. It's egotistical views trying to dominate the planet, that ARE the problem.

Despite the wording of the title I would have thought that would have been obvious from the content of my OP. But, I guess not.

Originally posted by EthanT

Originally posted by OptimusSubprime
Ecologically speaking we are no different than any other form of life. Everything we produce is made up of resources that come from the Earth, and the biproducts of said production (CO2, etc...) are just as natural. We are no different than the beaver that builds a dam.

There is a very important difference. With humans, (self-)consciousness has evolved to the extent that we can actively and willfully contribute to the evolution of the planet for good, OR for bad.

Beavers (and most of the animal kingdom) are in harmony with their environment. Man, in many cases, is not.

No species on this planet has had anywhere near the capability of destruction on the scale that we do. Therefore, I'd say we have a bit more responsibility to the Earth than your average beaver.

You make a good point, but the distinction I made earlier is that we aren't destroying or even hurting the planet, we are destroying OUR environment, not THE environment, and that is the distinction. One good volcanic eruption spews more CO2 and methane into the atmosphere than all cars ever made combined, and yet the Earth recovers from it just fine.