Gun Rights Debate

First of all, I'd like to state that I am vehemently pro-gun, and believe strongly in the United States Constitution, especially the Second Amendment.

One of my favorite areas on ATS is the weapons forum. Unfortunately, it seems like every thread that I read or post on, there is an anti-gunner trying to troll, or derail the thread.

I know that there are a lot of threads related to guns and gun rights, but I performed a search, and didn't find any that are a gun rights debate thread that are not related to a specific news story.

I do not understand how people can justify being against guns. IT'S IN THE CONSTITUTION!! I understand that guns can be used in crime, and the main purpose for their invention is to kill, but they also protect. Everybody supports every other amendment to the Constitution, but the Second Amendment is the most stepped on, illegally regulated, and disrespected one. What if the restrictions placed on the Second Amendment were placed on your Freedom of Speech? Or Right of Assembly? Or right to vote?

I hope we can all have a good discussion about this topic, and cite some facts and statistics on the subject.

very pro-guns myself...100% agree

I don't have much to say except I agree 100%, it is the right of law-abiding citizens to have the right to bare arms and to protect themselves.I live in NW Indiana and am very grateful i don't live just a couple minutes away in Chicago with all their awful gun laws.

I think people that are against guns, are that way because they percieve that so much "violence" and "suffering" are associated with them. If they would take a moment and stop and think logically about them, they would come to the correct conclusion that if guns didn't exist, the "angry monkeys" that we are would use whatever at hand to produce the same amount of violence, shovels, pitch forks, scissors, a club with ta nail through it, whatever. Guns get the most attention because they are loud and efficient killers, and just make killing less labor intensive. But the mass hysteria generated by anti-gun individuals is just that, all you have to do is think about it a little and you see how empty the arguments for gun control become. Gun control is hitting what you aim at. But if it were garden shears that were the prefered weapon for thjose who want to commit violence against they're fellow man, the would be an "anit-gardern shears" movement, I have no doubt in my mind!

I too am very pro gun. The second amendment is there to keep the government under control and prevent them from becoming a tyranny. The founding fathers had endured a tyranny and wanted to prevent America becoming another one.
I found this link back a while ago Dick Act I found this very interesting .

People that are against gun rights are those that never fired a gun. They don't believe in responsible gun owners where they respect firearms and all the etiquette that goes along with it. I have many friends that own guns and considers it their major hobby. Now are they violent? No, most gun owners are well mannered and non-hostile. They go to the ranges once in awhile to releave stress and keep their skills sharp just in case SHTF.

So why are the laws getting more strict with gun control? I think it's because people don't realize the typical cliche, "Guns don't kill people, people kill people." The opposers have their mind set in thinking criminals, gang members, or psychopaths will not be able to obtain guns if the laws are tougher. What they don't realize is that these tougher laws will only make the ordinary citizens to obtain them. Instead of making tougher laws, there needs to be more training classes, imo...

i live in Texas i have always carried even without a ccp.it saved me from being robbed one nite in Austin..walking down a side street near 6th street four black men came out of the ally and said hay man let us hold your wallet for you..i raised up my coat showing the 1911 Colt in its belt loop holster..they ran like rabbits.. THEY CAN HAVE MY GUN..FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS...it will be empty

Originally posted by KaiserSouszay
I don't have much to say except I agree 100%, it is the right of law-abiding citizens to have the right to bare arms and to protect themselves.I live in NW Indiana and am very grateful i don't live just a couple minutes away in Chicago with all their awful gun laws.

Unfortunately, I live near Chicago. Not in the city, luckily, but in the area. The gun laws in Illinois, especially Cook County and Chicago are some of the worst in the nation. The whole rest of the state does not agree with Chicago area politicians views, but because the population is so great, they have a majority. That's slowly changing, and a CCW bill was shot down by a very narrow margin. Hopefully next year it will pass.

But, when I travel to Indiana, or most other states, I excercise the rights granted to me by my Florida CCW license.

reply to post by granpabobby


Great story. The best part, and actually what it has most in common with other stories of citizens carrying concealed firearms, is that it ended without a shot being fired.

Just having a firearm and drawing or exposing it is such a deterrent that it stops many crimes being comitted before any violence occurs.

reply to post by CosmosKid


Get off my wave length. You type faster than me.

The current government fears those who have firearms because they know that they will have a hard time implementing their continued agenda of clamping down on the populace as long as people can take up arms.

I hope it doesn't come to that. I hope that those in the current administration wake up and realize that enforcing existing laws and leaving law abiding citizens alone is the way to go.

But, wish in one hand, and hope with the other and what do have....nothing.

That g-d piece of paper has nothing to do with it.

It exists and by whatever means be it force or barter I can own it.

If I own it it is mine to do with as I please. If you don't want be to have it you need to take it through force or barter through a voluntary exchange.

Our rights are much more base than the constitution. It's existence or destruction has no bearing whatsoever on my rights.

Its sole purpose was to keep the government(s) from trampling on basic inherent natural rights.

Obviously it has failed.

Despite this barrier on paper there exist licenses, permits, regulations, limits and fees on all our natural rights.

Damn the constitution. It has failed and serves no purpose other than to appease the simple minds who still believe it is relevant.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Will those of you who don't like guns or don't know how to use them kindly turn them over to those of us who do so not as many people get hurt and we can wax the asocial types.



thank you very much.

P.S. I'm probably standing right behind you.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


Nope, it hasn't failed, it has been subverted by lawyers, It is still relevant and has a place amongst those who rather rule by law rather than anarchy.

The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers - Shakespeare

Well, not all of 'em.

reply to post by TDawgRex


Sorry!, but it kind of proves the arguemnt for just thinking rationally about the issue doesn't it! Just would be nice if the other side of the argument would "Get it!"

I'm going to post an excerpt from an essay I wrote that included world gun law statistics in an excel sheet. I may add the whole essay and statistics at a later date but wanted to quote my exact feelings on our right to have any weapons we deem necessary to keep ourselves safe.

Here ya go:

This is a unique time in human history for oppression. It is amazing that such a large group of humanity has allowed themselves to be relegated to practical slavery like this. Every government in history has eventually overstepped its boundaries. They have all "gone bad" at some time. The private citizenry of the world has given the keys to the henhouse, to the fox for safe keeping. The governments of the world are responsible for more crime, more murder, and more oppression in the name of, ______ fill in the blank, than any other group. Whether it’s private citizens or even hardened criminal versus the governments, who really is the least trustworthy? And they are the one and only group of them all who are freely armed? It is sick.

One thing to consider, above all else, is the idea of natural rights. Some of the more religious types of folks like to call them God given, but most people who hear that term have no idea what is meant by it other than it's an expression. Well the concept is that there are certain rights, that are above and beyond the consent or criticism of all men but belong to men as individuals. These include traveling freely, the right to eat, drink, breathe, reproduce, and the like. These also include defending oneself. That is to defend yourself against other people or groups of people. That includes governments. When they begin to infringe on any of these, you have your own natural right to defend yourself. You have the same capacity to exist freely as they do. They are merely human beings as are we. This means, you may defend yourself in the same manner they would. You have the natural right to be armed because guns exist. For better or for worse, guns do exist. They use them and as such, so may you. They are no different from you. They are not more entitled. They are not more trustworthy. They have no say to whether you have these rights.

The governments of the world are not to be trusted. This isn't said out of hate. It is said out of truth. It is proven by every example of government that has ever existed. They being human beings as yourself, have no grounds to take away your natural rights anymore than you do to take away theirs. It is convenient that they keep people afraid, uninformed and convinced that natural rights are gifts they give you. It serves their purpose of oppression nicely. But it is not true. And it is not theirs to give or take. Could one tiger take away another tiger's claws, or teeth? Can they tell that tiger they no longer possess that "privilege"? No. It is a tiger's right to have those same implements that every other tiger has to ensure his survival. Those are HIS natural rights.

It is a sad state our world is in. We must learn to take what is ours. Our survival and our capacity to prosper depends on it. We cannot as a species begin to move forward, to progress, until we stop those who would hold us back because of their greed, their fear, their entitlement. Be a part of the solution, not the problem. Don't let anyone infringe on your natural rights.

reply to post by Redwookieaz


I may be wrong, but when you say that "we must take what is ours", people will construe what you are saying to be greed. I think I know better, but there are those who will take what I have worked for and saved for thinking that they are entitled to the fruits of my labor. If I choose I gladly give those friuts away to others, cool. This is the basis of local diplomacy. They are not for the taking though.

I'd like to see that excel spreadsheet.

reply to post by TDawgRex


I said take what is ours, not what is everybody elses, but from what you said I think you already get that..
And more directly, when I say take what is ours, I mean our rights, not physical goods..


ETA: Ok, I'll try to get the spreadsheet put up some time tonight. It was compiled by a group called Free Existence I believe.

Interesting debate depending where you live... I grew in up MA and they have some of the strictest gun laws around. I got my CCP back in the early 90's when all you had to do was fill out a form and get a backround check. Now you have to take a multi-day class and depending what town you live in you may be limited to the type of permit that is issued, for example: To & from Range only, class B- under 10rd gun capacity, Sporting only, Non-semiautomatic pistol. I was lucky enough back then to get a Class-A unrestricted, which is nearly impossible to get now unless you are born with privelige, a LEO, or spend forever in class. And once I had my CCP it was generally frowned upon by the general public to carry and I would get in many gun-rights & CCP debates with people who were opposed to or scared of guns.
I now live in TX, what a change! Down here guns are just a way of life. Farmers need them for the critters, everyone loves to hunt, personal protection is generally accepted, and seeing many people with slight bulges underneath their shirts at the grocery store is so common no one thinks twice. Debates on guns down here usually are along the lines of "how many do you have?" or "you paid how much for that!!"

Gun Rights=You don't have the right to touch my guns

reply to post by TDawgRex


Ok, here is the worldwide guns right index:

Gun Rights Worldwide

So many people without their natural rights. Very sad...

reply to post by Redwookieaz


Good stuff. I just wish those who would take away our rights would look at those who have already given them up. It always leads to oppression.