What are the chances the U.S. economy could eventually trigger violence in our country?

Originally posted by starwarsisreal
So that means we'll experience a Second American Civil War? I mean we are increasingly seeing alot of tensions flaring

I'd say that for the first time since the Civil War, its a very strong possiblity. The question is do the American people actually care about their country or do they only care about themselves? I'd guess the latter considering what I've seen over the past few years. Then again, it only took a single rifle shot to ignite our revolution. The human spirit is the wild card regardless of how drugged up or 'conditioned' we may be.

Honestly, of the people that were polled, 99% of them ought to be pissed. I'd like to know the mindset of those who think things are getting better. There's a difference between being optimistic and being realistic.

At the end of the day, the root problem with America is that the tables have turned; those who are supposed to serve us are now ruling us and we are serving them. Don't think for a minute those in power aren't there for their own personal gain. When you have a president who belittles American's and their values, (Bibles and guns) and basically makes fun of them on a national forum, you have a serious problem.

Their job is to do what we tell them to do, not the other way around. Our representatives don't vote for the masses, they vote for themselves and political expediency. The don't give a rats ass about us. Seriously...if our representatives voted based on the input of their constituents, Obamacare would have NEVER passed. It was clear the vast majority of Americans didn't want that garbage, but they gave it to us anyway. The arrogance and self-serving thugs in Washington need to be strung up.

A second american civil war?

Who would be the belligerents? The entirety of citizens against the fed?
States vs Fed?
Counties vs States?
What about the military? If i recall my days in boot camp a couple of years ago, there was talk of fighting for our states if a second civil war ever came about. Not saying it happened in every recruit division but still it was a bit unnerving to think that there was still a strong desire to protect our states somewhere under the surface of our oaths. I can see desertions occurring but not significant enough to dampen the US armed forces response to a civil uprising or a civil war.

I got plenty of speculations running around my head!
Any ideas for the flash points? I kinda think that the US would be divided into several regional factions, with the federals being everywhere but somewhat isolated.
Does anyone see a failed state scenario for any of our 50 states?

A Second American Civil War
So many institutions would shake with indecision and infighting...

I would rather not see this event arrive, nor would I want it to happen to my or any of your own children. Its a real possibility, always is, but what can we do to decrease the probability?

Originally posted by starwarsisreal
So that means we'll experience a Second American Civil War? I mean we are increasingly seeing alot of tensions flaring

Expect a lot of looting of higher class homes and the poor and middle class uprising much like the end of gangs of new york.

We have become the old Irish

Originally posted by kro32

Originally posted by SpaDe_

Originally posted by kro32

Originally posted by SpaDe_

Originally posted by kro32
There's plenty of people today that pull together as community's...look at the recent tornado's or the hurricanes if you want to see outpouring of help.

I am sure you are correct that in the aftermath the people will finally pull together, but it won't come at 0 cost. The scenario is set to play out in the very near future, so I guess all we have to do is wait and see.

No you can actually research history and see what has happened in the past when there were similar circumstances. There is no record for massive outbreaks of violence during economic downturns. If you want to speculate against the historical record than that's your right but don't try to convince others of something you have no proof of.

Never in the history of the world has there ever been the circumstances that we have today, ever! There has never been an entitlement program put forward in the history of the world like the ones that are in place today. There has never been the technologies that we have today in the history of the world. In the past people worked manual labor jobs and went home to tend their gardens, and livestock if they had any. In the past people didn't rely on the internet, or television like most do today for entertainment. In the past you didn't get welfare or unemployment like you do today.

So how is anything today even close in comparison to any other time in history based on the circumstances?

Explain to me how any one of these things is going to lead to more violence. What in the world does not working in your garden have to do with becoming violent?

Let me tell you about the increase in violence and bad attitudes. I have the displeasure of ordering peoples cars to be repossessed. When they are picked up people have been coming in yelling and screaming, ready to fight when they have not made payments in months. The one's that put up the biggest fight are the one's that get some kind of gov't money. Whether it be food stamps or section 8 or ssi because their kids have "learning disabilities". Also, they make no attempt to get the car back. Normally people would attempt to get caught up on their payments but not any more. They run and hide the car as long as they can. Its ridiculous lately.

reply to post by SouthernWarrior


I'm a little surprised by some of the naive responses. I would say its almost 100% certain. It won't be completely black against white or rich against poor. I believe it will be urban against rural. When the SHTF urban people will be clueless. The goverment resources will be depleted. Urban people won't know how to survive so they will try to survive by taking from people who are self reliant. I can't see how it will play out any other way.

PEACE warrior

There will be no uprising at all unless they take away McDonald's and mindless shows like American idol etc, then you will see the sheeple rise up....!

Yes, it could very easily happen here in the US...violence on a mass scale.

And yes...it DID happen during the Depression.

When WWI veterans were told that they would not be getting their pensions as promised...they formed a makeshift camp in front of the US domed capital...out on the causeway so familiar to us. They stayed and protested for days...weeks...finally, the government came in with active US soldiers and broke up the camp at gunpoint and even shot and killed numerous veterans. The operation was under the command of none other than Douglas McArthur of "I Shall Return" fame.

The economic situation was so bad down in Louisiana..that in one day, half of the homes there were forecloed on. People were upset at the continued lack of response from the fed government and lack of aid to La. that there was talk of secession by a growing Populist Movement a movement so strong that the gov actually activated the Natl Guard to oppose US Federal troops from entering La to squelch the rebellion. Thankfully few if asny shots were fired and Pres Roosevelt picked up on the political climate and adopted many of the programs instituted by Gov Long of La. If ya can't beat'em...join 'em.

Anybody here remember Bonnie and Clyde and the hosts of other "Bank Robbers" of the Dust bowl era? they were the proverbial robin Hoods of the Little Man taking on and giving it to the banks...infamous folk heroes. My dad actually remembers the news reports of their feats on the radio as a child in the Depression.

So, here are 3 examples of violence that played out in the Depression...can you imagine say...Texas, showing positive growth and resentment toward hostile immigration policy, decides the US Govt is a "ball and chain" and tries to seceed... or what if a mass of disgruntled American citizens..some armed, descend upon Washington protesting the seizure of their 401k retirement accounts and replaced with useless US Treasuries.... or because of violent small scale terrorists attacks on school buses and retirement homes across middle America there is a violent and dramatic backlash and lynchings of innocent and not so innocent Arab immigrants....

How would that or any other possible scenario play out?

I for one hope it DOES happen! And when it does I will be right there to support it! This country needs a cleansing of politicians. We need to start anew with fresh blood, not corrupt professional politicians. The civil war will be us vs the man. Abolish the fed, back to gold standard, stop invading other countries, secure our borders and stop sending funds overseas. Are you really naive enough to think these professional politicians you have put into office are there for you? They do and say enough to pacify you. They know what is brewing, hence the patriot act. If you don't start soon, it will be too late and everything you know and hold dear will be gone forever!

reply to post by wolveseyes


Strange coz violence already exists in America... all it could do is add to it but what hasn't the average American not seen?????

Those who make peaceful change impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.
John F. Kennedy

The Declaration of Independence states:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

For clarification: Despotism is a form of government by a single authority, either an individual (Despot), or tightly knit group, which rules with absolute political power. -- Our current government is the perfect example!

When a majority of americans are no longer able to sit on the couch watching TV, and playing video games, there will be trouble. That is the only way I see anything large happening.

Originally posted by testtubebaby
Cant wait for this.

Hopefully the people will then turn on the Government. This could be the best reality TV ever. Lets hopes its broadcasted worldwide. Lately there has been nothing good on TV.

The ratings alone will be record breaking.

Then the rebuilding can start, for the better I think.

I'm sorry.

It WILL come, but it WON'T be as tidy as all that - not a simple matter of "the people vs the government". The government has too many of the people still on it's side, defending it to the last, clinging to those shreds of sinking ship in hopes of yet another government program to line their pockets with.

I don't mean just "poor folks" or "welfare folks", either. There are some amazingly well to do people still riding that bandwagon (probably in hopes of using government largesse to pacify the restless masses and thereby save their own necks), and conversely there are a lot of poor folks who don't fall into the government camp.

It'll probably shake out like this.

Economic unrest boils over into violent unrest. Government can either withhold what they've been giving, or somehow run out of it, and a lot of recipients will be hurting, together with the ongoing economic troubles that have so many who would otherwise be "haves" out of work.. When they blow, the anger won't be directed against the government, which is largely out of their reach, it will be directed at more accessible targets - like their neighbors, or the rich subdivision across town. No one has ever accused mindless mobs of being overburdened with critical thinking skills - that's why they call 'em "mindless" mobs. At that stage, it will be "have nots" vs "haves", or those they perceive to be "haves". Something akin to riots and mob rule, mindless undirected violence in the streets at that stage, which I'll call Phase I.

Politicians, pundits, and their associated straphangers on either side will try to make political capital out of it. That's what politicians, pundits, and straphangers do. At some point, the "uprising", for lack of a better term, will morph from mindless violence into factional violence, along political lines. At that point, it will STILL not be "the people" vs "the government". It will be something like "left" vs "right", as each side tries to blame the other for the mess, and the restless masses hear that going on, gravitating to the "side" they perceive to be closest to their position. Phase II will be a "political war", but confined for the most part against easier targets that the government, again. It will be "haves" vs "have nots", with a political dimension, gradually morphing into something like "liberals" vs "conservatives".

ONLY after phase II is allowed to play out and run it's course will any sort of focused ire be directed at government, in Phase III. THEN it will be "the people" vs" the government", but there will still be a surprising number of "the people" fighting on "the government" side, and oddly enough vice versa.

It's gonna be messy, and not pretty at all.... but isn't every birth?

Originally posted by Magnus47

Originally posted by testtubebaby

Hopefully the people will then turn on the Government. This could be the best reality TV ever. Lets hopes its broadcasted worldwide. Lately there has been nothing good on TV.

I know you're being light-hearted about it but try not to think of this as some kind of "People vs. the government" scenario. 99% of government workers are just ordinary citizens like you or me, trying to get a paycheck. The idea of sitting back and watching some kind of mass hostility towards our own brothers and sisters strikes me as brutish.

It could be fairly said that 99% of the Secret Polezei in Nazi Germany were just trying to grab a paycheck and get by. They were only doing their jobs, and were of course someone's brothers and sisters. My gripe with them was their choice of job. My Brother ceases to be my Brother the instant he becomes my Overseer.

Originally posted by wolveseyes
14 rifles and 3 handguns 6 airsoft guns im good lol come on lol ive done snipe training lol I pop a cap in some @$$. hell i even got a crossbow lmfao

Got Sword? Yer gonna need you some swords and spears, too! ... and a big-assed Battle Wagon to haul all that stuff around in....

Seriously, you sound to be over-armed. Can't tote and shoot but one or at the most two at a time. Need to prune back and get overly familiar with those one or two items, so that when the moment of decision comes, you won't have any trouble deciding.

Take away the choices, drill with what's left, and the choices are far easier to make. Split seconds of indecision count, and will kill ya.

reply to post by nenothtu


I agree with the "phase" idea. A few of us were speaking about this over this past weekend concerning the new uptick in violence and mob action in my own community. Its definitely starting in the "have nots" camp already. The thing the "have nots" dont seem to understand is the people they are targeting with the mob beatings and home invasions are under the gun financially as well. We dont have what they think we have.. or convinced themselves that we have. We simply have a very little more than them. So right now its definitely not focused on the govt or the origin of the financial problems. Here we have cut back on unemployment and are seeking to cut medicaid and foodstamp benefits somewhat. There was a huge problem when this was even mentioned in the news. The problem was that the ones having the problem are taking it out on the wrong people. People at large seem to be angry and violent all of a sudden.. but its so unfocused. They dont even know who to be mad at so they take it out on those of us who they perceive have more. This is a dangerous and deadly phase... and who knows how long it will last.. or what the true fallout will be. Here we have a racial issue along with the have not/haves issue.. a very serious racial issue. The joke is if you want welfare, move to Illinois. Its true and we are overrun with this type. Not that all welfare folks are bad, but when you make a point to make it a free for all concerning entitlements, you attract the not deserving types that actually take away from those who truly need help. In my case, Im not white, but since Im not black Im the bad guy too! LOL! I find it mind boggling since Im not from here and have only been here 5 or 6 yrs.. and its been an eyeopener. I was walking on main street with my husband and kids and was called a cracker.. I thought "COOL!! someone thought I was white!" Later Ive discovered, youre the bad guy if you are of any other race to some here. "THEY" have done a great job polarizing us here between socioeconomic and racial differences... and a lot of folks have swallowed it hook like and sinker. In Phase II they will discover : wow.. we're actually all in the same boat against this corrupt govt... I hope. If any of us are left.

When we were discussing phase II... none of us could agree on it. I figured that it would be an us ( haves and have nots) VS them ( corrupt local, state and federal govt) together but the others thought it would be basically the govt using the have nots against us who are not anti-have not but anti-govt... and we never get to the civil uprising or revolution stage versus the government. Sort of like theyt already are.. youre a bad guy and hate minorities if you demand fiscal responsibility and conservatism within govt. Youre definitely the bad guy if you demand that jobs be created, the govt butt out, demand lowering of taxes, and people work rather than receive lifetime and generational welfare. Youre also hateful or racist if you are against the new stimulus the Obama Admin is touting this week according to a plethora of comments in my local paper! You know, from what I have read just today in my local paper Im pretty well convinced I am wrong and the others were correct. I really think it will be a citizen versus citizen for some unfathomable reason... rather than a citizen versus corrupt govt scenario.. for a long time if not indefinitely.

Look at our crime rate.


Clearly its already happening. The working class is fighting back but not in the way you think. The world war is already happening with the rich vs the poor, all these interpolitical wars being waged by countries is just an illusion.

Originally posted by 4Starlight2Decay0
reply to post by BrianC

 

I got a visual of a cynical old hill folk man sitting in a rocking chair on a porch waving his cane/shotgun at me

Damn.

I thought my webcam was inoperative!

Originally posted by onequestion
Look at our crime rate.


Clearly its already happening. The working class is fighting back but not in the way you think. The world war is already happening with the rich vs the poor, all these interpolitical wars being waged by countries is just an illusion.

Hell.. you dont have to even be rich for it to be a polarizing issue, you just have to have a few more beans in your pot than the other guy in order to be labeled the enemy.