Science fails to exclude God

Originally posted by randyvs

Originally posted by chocise
I believe 'god's' existence has already been confirmed by science, or.... we are very close.

Hate quoting Einstein, as he's often so readily misquoted, but when asked, he did specifically say it was a question of definition, and I understand that completely: if one's notion is of an anthropomorphised, white haired, beared all-seeing gent behind a set of pearly gates is 'god', I'd have to disagree vehemently.

We have, today, seen some breaking news of bubble universes, no sign of a Higgs-Boson, and multiple 'Big Bangs'.

It's out there, for sure, we just can't grasp the reality, yet.

edit on 3-8-2011 by chocise because: grammer

You can't say that cause you don't have any proof. No? just trying it on.

Wait what? Are you trying to steal my job here?

Have any of you ever asked your selves if faith is a personal choice?

Can we choose what we have faith in,
or is faith based on our feelings/awareness?

For me faith is more or less based on how i perceive information/knowledge. Therefor faith becomes a reaction to what i am aware off.

Faith is not a choice, faith is a reaction based on how you perceive information, knowledge and what you observe.

No mather how much any of you try to believe in God, If you cant feel a connection with God you will never be able to have true faith in God.

Some might be determined to learn or wanting to know God. But that is not faith that is searching for faith "the right feeling/connection".

reply to post by spy66


This means that all of the countless Gods, past and present were/are real? No doubt people had great faith in them, a strong connection. Certain islanders refuse Christianity because John Frum is their God and Christ, he will return, undoubtedly. John Frum is God. Thor is God. Quetzalcoatl is God. What of Spinoza's God? Some knew God so well, they knew he needed others to be sacrificed for him. Or is only your faith and connection to your God the correct one and all others are wrong?


A sizable part of the population has a great connection to Santa. I used to myself. He was watching over us, he knew who was naughty or nice. He knew what you wanted for Christmas. He was magic. This great connection took no searching, it was very natural. There is a great faith there. Santa is God. The Easter Bunny is probably a lesser God.


I talked to a chap once who claimed he was an alien sent here to help us. He had great faith that this was so. A seemingly nice intelligent person.The way he perceived information and knowledge no doubt gave him great faith and a great connection to his alien brethren in the Pleiades star system.


These things are all true because people have faith. Thanks for explaining that, it was so convincing.........

Randy I love this: Thank you!!


randyvs wrote:

Isn't the fact that life is such a massively bitchen thing that one must consider the intelligence involved in consciousness.

Just be speculative and add to it, speak to it in whatever way? You people ( not sure my self what I mean by that ) never seem to leave the ready made, cyborg persona the world greeted you with from the beginning. Man can not simply be just a fleshy machine, when science it self is on tthe verge of proving that consciousness can fall through matter. The soul is the consciousness and I believe certain knowledge can obscure that fact to the point where one can become lost. I'm simply waiting for science to come full circle.as
I know it will.



Randy, I still have not figured out how to do the "quote thing" right---

But---in response to your words-----

I was here reading all these other threads, and I find you over here --

I just want to say that your posts are wonderful!

You are on the right track---It is all about Consciousness---and we miss it so easily because it "is us" It is our Divine Identity, and its right here all the time, ever present with us/as us---sort of like fish in water, they don't even realize its there, it is so close its just not seen. We are Awareness, and this Awareness is God's Awareness (we do not own it, nor is it really inside the brain or body) We are greater than our bodies; our Real Self is part of the Eternal Unseen Light of Godhead. I do believe you are right, the scientist will soon find out he is looking at God--- The scientist might do well to look at the awareness that he is 'looking with'--- You cannot get away from awareness--- and This awareness belongs to God--- it is not coming from inside our head, our head is inside of It. God is really All That Is---that is why we do not notice this Living Presence that is being all 'things'---all existence is God and God's ideas (things) thoughts are things too. All Life is God and God's Awareness.

Yes, I think science is very close to this discovery!! They will probably make the discovery before 'religiosity' can let go its position of (false) authority and power. But, however this Truth arrives, it will be Yippy! It will be a wonder and a joy when this New View dawns on humanity--- It will be Dawn of the New Heaven and New Earth--- I am joyfully looking forward to it.

Maybe just you and I and this guy and that one and a gathering of more and more will bring this Light of Truth- --We won't need any one but our selves to do change the tides, make the quantum leap.

I feel it is important to share what little bit of Glimmers and Insights that Grace has shown me---

Love, SweetMystiery

reply to post by Cogito, Ergo Sum

This means that all of the countless Gods, past and present were/are real?

No it doesn't. It means that people were/are effected by the belief system that their culture or society worship/enforced by law.
It dosent mean they have true faith in what they worship. Like some or most modern priests to day dont have true faith in God. "Being a priest to day is a job". Its a job to maintain a old cultural system.

Way back People in Norway were forced to make a choice. Be baptised or be beheaded/killed. These people didn't say yes to be baptized because they suddenly had faith in God. They said yes because they wanted to live.

I dont know if you see the problem when people who are forced to believe in something they have no connection with. They create outrageous rituals and laws. They create a circus with clowns who has to put on a show to please the people (its worshipers). These people dont come to have faith in God, but to enjoy the rituals.

Most people put on a show for Christmas so that their kids will enjoy the ritual of getting gifts. In most families God is not even a part of the equation. They fool their kids to believe in a ritual, And all the kids love the ritual.

What of Spinoza's God? Some knew God so well, they knew he needed others to be sacrificed for him.

Some didn't know God at all that is why they made outrageous claims that people had to be sacrificed.

please, science can't begin to explain god.

science can't exclude anything.


science can't explain anything.

science didn't know there was flowing water on mars.

science sucks.

Originally posted by fooks
please, science can't begin to explain god.

science can't exclude anything.


science can't explain anything.

science didn't know there was flowing water on mars.

science sucks.

Science is a big business cooperation. It makes money on our lack of knowledge and creates fantasy expectations and hope for humanity and for our future. Just like religion.

Religious people are waiting for a saviour to save them from evil, others are waiting for science to create something that will save them from religion.

Originally posted by spy66
This means that all of the countless Gods, past and present were/are real?

No it doesn't. It means that people were/are effected by the belief system that their culture or society worship/enforced by law.

It is true that only in comparatively recent times did certain Christians stop imposing misery, torture or death on those who chose to think for themselves. Though your statement seems a wild exaggeration if you are trying to characterize all other religious cults or zealots as being forced believers and therefore not having your kind of faith, don't you think? There were and still are, countless different religions. All you seem to be saying is that you have true faith and they don't. Yeah, never heard that one before. Try telling a Melanesian he has no faith in John Frum.

Most people put on a show for Christmas so that their kids will enjoy the ritual of getting gifts. In most families God is not even a part of the equation. They fool their kids to believe in a ritual, And all the kids love the ritual.

No, many are quite sure of Santa's reality. They have faith just like you. They have been lied to, just like you probably were. About both Santa and God. They are the same thing. Parents don't usually the truth about God being nonsense (though they do in some instances) because they are often suffering from the same delusion.

I won't touch on the last part. It is probably accidental that you included Spinoza with the quote about sacrifice. It's worth reading about Spinoza's ideas.

Originally posted by fooks
please, science can't begin to explain god.

science can't exclude anything.


science can't explain anything.

science didn't know there was flowing water on mars.

science sucks.

Science isn't a system of belief. Therefore it doesn't attempt to explain God. That is what superstition (religion) is for.

So you knew there was flowing water on Mars. Right. Did God tell you? I thought scientists themselves weren't convinced yet.

Science sucks as well eh? Look around at every aspect of your lifestyle, there may be much you take for granted. An odd thing to say, whether you believe in imaginary deities or not.

reply to post by Cogito, Ergo Sum


Santa and God are not the same thing never were. And i am not saying my faith is more right than others. I said faith is a reaction to how we perceive information/knowledge and from what we observe (geographical location).
Probably explains why not every culture had faith in Odin, Jesus, Valhalla and so on. Lot of cultures didn't even know about Jesus for instance. Not even after he's death.

Originally posted by spy66
reply to post by Cogito, Ergo Sum

 

Santa and God are not the same thing never were. And i am not saying my faith is more right than others. I said faith is a reaction to how we perceive information/knowledge and from what we observe (geographical location).
Probably explains why not every culture had faith in Odin, Jesus, Valhalla and so on. Lot of cultures didn't even know about Jesus for instance. Not even after he's death.

That is very debatable. They are both paranormal beings that appear to have a long history of delusion and or dishonesty attached to them. The real difference is that Santa is portrayed as benevolent, while the adults version is more of a psychotic narcissist.

So therefore all Gods are valid, if people have a faith or connection to them, as no doubt many would claim to have.

No mather how much any of you try to believe in God, If you cant feel a connection with God you will never be able to have true faith in God.

Some might be determined to learn or wanting to know God. But that is not faith that is searching for faith "the right feeling/connection".

Jim Jones. A man of God, he also claimed to have a great faith............
Perhaps his faith just took him in a very negative direction, for many reasons. Same Christian God, same faith.

Marshal Applewhite claimed to be God's son. Connections and faith don't get much stronger than that.

It is a delusion.

reply to post by Cogito, Ergo Sum

That is very debatable. They are both paranormal beings that appear to have a long history of delusion and or dishonesty attached to them.

Saint Nickolas was never a God or a paranormal being. He was a bishop, a human who lived in year 280 to 345.
St. Nickolas gave away he's parents fortune in secrecy so that no one would honor him or worship him. Because of he's kindness the church formed Christmas in he's honor. And St.Nickolas is portrayed as Santa bringing gifts.

So therefore all Gods are valid, if people have a faith or connection to them, as no doubt many would claim to have.

I guess you are wrong Santa is not a God but a saint.

Marshal Applewhite claimed to be God's son. Connections and faith don't get much stronger than that.

We are all God children. Even Jesus said so. The thing is that we claim that Jesus is Gods only begotten son.
There is a conflict of faith and identity right there.

We are all borne without a name. We are all borne as "I am". Does that ring a bell of some sort?

If your parents didn't request a name that You would represent. And if i asked you for your name. You would replay: I am me.

You wont get this yet. But we can get into it if you like.

Saint Nickolas was never a God or a paranormal being.

Neither was Christ, but that doesn't stop the resulting nonsense. It's very unlikely he even existed, actually impossible in the way portrayed. They are both unrealistic fairy tales now. At least if St. Nick was a real person it makes his myth and the folkloric miracle nonsense at least based on someone known to exist.

Thank you for pointing out that the resulting Santa myth is, at least historically, more valid to begin with.

We are all God children. Even Jesus said so. The thing is that we claim that Jesus is Gods only begotten son.
There is a conflict of faith and identity right there.

We are all borne without a name. We are all borne as "I am". Does that ring a bell of some sort?

If your parents didn't request a name that You would represent. And if i asked you for your name. You would replay: I am me.

You wont get this yet. But we can get into it if you like.

No, in your delusion we belong to some notion of a religious God. No one knows if Christ existed, let alone what he might have said. Though the "I Am" is interesting. I wasn't born with a Ferrari either, this has nothing to do with imaginary deities however.

Perhaps I don't get it yet, or perhaps I do. Perhaps I was looking into it before "you were" even a twinkle in someone's eye. Though I could be wrong there depending on your age. It certainly rings a bell because it reminds me of the philosophical bilge water that certain brainwashing cults spout. Sounds very familiar. Now I am wondering if your self proclaimed "true faith" is very original.

reply to post by Cogito, Ergo Sum

Neither was Christ, but that doesn't stop the resulting nonsense.

Jesus never claimed he is God. "We" claim that Jesus is God and Gods only begotten son (at the same time) according to how we interpret scripture. Yet another conflict of identity.
There is a conflict between what Jesus is saying/teaching and scripture written by human faith/inspiration.

It's very unlikely he even existed, actually impossible in the way portrayed.

Exactly: We have portrayed Jesus according to how we interpret scripture "human faith/inspiration".
As i said earlier, our faith depends on the information/knowledge we gather/view. If you read scripture you are bound to have some thoughts of your own about the matter. That is also how christians built different belief systems. The different belief systems are based on how some key people in history have perceived information/knowledge, and then preached their views/faith to the public to gather support/followers for that exact view/faith. This view and faith is passed on as knowledge.

No, in your delusion we belong to some notion of a religious God.

I don't believe God is religious for one minute. But i do believe we are. Key people in history have created scripture/religion based on their personal faith/visions and proclaimed communication with God.

I see warning signs here. I dont take these peoples words for granted without making some serious thoughts about it. And i do have some conflicting thoughts about all of it.

Now I am wondering if your self proclaimed "true faith" is very original.

I have never said that i have true faith in a sense that i'm right and you are wrong. I have said that our faith is a reaction to how we perceive information and knowledge. Every one of us perceive information and knowledge differently. Like how you will create different images in your mind compared to me if we both read from the same book.

.................................................


The "I am (awareness)" gets very interesting if you think about the infinite. We can not have something the infinite dosent have. Just like we would never have existed without the universe were we evolved.

god does not exist he is i thought in your head he is basically like morale you believe he is there and he is there
there has been no physical evidence that he exists and alot that he does not exist he is like an old rumor or fairy tale

Originally posted by sakoy
god does not exist he is i thought in your head he is basically like morale you believe he is there and he is there
there has been no physical evidence that he exists and alot that he does not exist he is like an old rumor or fairy tale

Should i take your word for it?

Is there some way you can confirm what you are saying?

Originally posted by sakoy
god does not exist he is i thought in your head he is basically like morale you believe he is there and he is there
there has been no physical evidence that he exists and alot that he does not exist he is like an old rumor or fairy tale

Then you have nothing to worry about. I havn't got the brains that God gave a goose. And every one who has posted on this thread? On both sides of the debate ? Dosn't have the sense to poor pysss out of boot. Oh wait, that includes you.
Can't have that can we ?

I found this very interesting video on YouTube www.youtube.com.... If brain cells of a Rat placed i a jar can learn how to fly by receiving information directly and giving commands in return, why cant rats evolve and learn as we do?

Why are no other species capable of competing with our brain/awareness?

reply to post by spy66


Spy66, now that I understand your line of thinking a little more, there is not much there that I would argue with. Even if I might disagree on some things, at least it appears you have explored the subject rather than just become another deluded follower of man made superstition. No doubt it is a deeply personal thing, as it should be I suppose.

The winter sunsets in this part of the world can be beautiful, as is the following night sky that can be amazingly clear. Something humbling and unfathomable. Where the "I am" fits into this infinite scenario is relevant from any point of view whether scientific or religious. A shame that this genuine feeling of mystery and wonder is often satisfied with belief in ridiculous fairy story books and man made myths, or taken advantage of by the delusionals and charlatans.

The fact that genuine scientific knowledge is often shunned in favour of delusion which seems is forced on young people as a way of indoctrination always seems a shame. It stifles individuality and that sense of wonder in favour of superstitious belief. Though it could also be said the views of the more extreme scientific rational atheists can have a similar effect. One of the greatest dangers in the world at present seems to be that religious insanity either infects or indirectly affects those with the potential power to cause immense destruction. In both the east and west.

reply to post by Cogito, Ergo Sum

Spy66, now that I understand your line of thinking a little more, there is not much there that I would argue with. Even if I might disagree on some things, at least it appears you have explored the subject rather than just become another deluded follower of man made superstitious nonsense. No doubt it is a deeply personal thing, as it should be, I suppose.

Dosn't stop others, from treating it like a doormat, or toilet paper either. To belittle, mock, insult or attack anyone for their beliefs ? Is the same thing as racism. The No.1 toy for atheists is their insults. I'm sure that if any one of them ever tried to get thru one page without an insult ? You'd prolly see words like unicorn, or spaghetti, popping up in the middle of sentences. Completely unrelated to any of the text in which it occurred.