Ancient Aliens Debunked?

reply to post by ButterCookie


Claiming that the Sumerians came from Africa proves nothing even if true. ALL human beings originate in Africa, our species evolved there to begin with and migrated out. The point is that geography wise ancient Sumer isn't in Africa, it's in the Middle East, generally considered part Asia. No one is attempting to steal any glory from African peoples. Personally I don't care what race the Sumerians were, the characteristics we term race are genetically negligible, we're all human bengs.

Now can we please get back on topic and deal with ancient aliens please? What does Sumer have to do with the AAH?

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Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by ButterCookie

 

Claiming that the Sumerians came from Africa proves nothing even if true. ALL human beings originate in Africa, our species evolved there to begin with and migrated out. The point is that geography wise ancient Sumer isn't in Africa, it's in the Middle East, generally considered part Asia. No one is attempting to steal any glory from African peoples. Personally I don't care what race the Sumerians were, the characteristics we term race are genetically negligible, we're all human bengs.

Now can we please get back on topic and deal with ancient aliens please? What does Sumer have to do with the AAH?

edit on 7-6-2011 by Titen-Sxull because: (no reason given)

Come on now...

the Sumerians were the Ancient AFRICAN (Egyptian, Mesoptamian, etc) civilization that were the originators of the Dead Sea Scrolls, which when translated gave the story of mankind's origin and history. The translations are what biblical texts are made up of.

They called the 'ones who came from heaven, the Anunnaki, to describe the race of beings from Nibiru ( 12th planet)

The 1st people were the Sumerians (AFRICANS) and were the 1st to have a civilized and technologically advanced community, many many years before the cave-dwelling, history-stealing, barbaric Europeans.

Originally posted by ButterCookie
Of course its time to shout 'racist crap' when a black person corrects a white person on their (ahem...stolen) history.

I didn't use that word. And what makes you think I'm white?

Anyway, fact is, the Sumerians were caucasoid, as shown by their skeletons. Not that this has anything to do with the subject at hand.

Originally posted by ButterCookie

the Sumerians were the Ancient AFRICAN (Egyptian, Mesoptamian, etc) civilization that were the originators of the Dead Sea Scrolls

The Dead Sea Scrolls were written thousands of years after the Sumerians had disappeared.

The Sumerians may have had connections with Arabia and even India. But not Africa. Their ancestors probably came from the Black Sea area.

reply to post by ButterCookie


But what makes the stories contained in those scrolls valid? Where is the physical evidence of extraterrestrial influence? Without it this might as well just be fiction. As I've said before in 10,000 years if someone finds a super-man comic they wouldn't be justified to assume aliens exist based on that. I'm guessing you're basing your view on people like Sitchin who are not legitimate experts and who are just reinterpreting mythology. Even if they are right and the Sumerians truly did believe gods came down from another world that wouldn't prove the aliens existed, their account would just be the ancient equivalent of science fiction. Don't get me wrong I'd like to believe these ancient aliens existed but there simply is no conclusive evidence.

Originally posted by Essan

Originally posted by ButterCookie
Of course its time to shout 'racist crap' when a black person corrects a white person on their (ahem...stolen) history.

I didn't use that word. And what makes you think I'm white?

Anyway, fact is, the Sumerians were caucasoid, as shown by their skeletons. Not that this has anything to do with the subject at hand.

Are you serious?

The earliest civilization in Western Asia were the Sumerians, followed by the Akkadians, Babylonians, and Assyrians, all of them preceding the Chaldeans. The Sumerians have been described as a black faced people, pictured on monuments as beardless with shaven heads. There has been much confusion as to where the Sumerians original homeland was. However, through much research, anthropologists have proven that they are of African heritage. According to author, Drusilla D. Houston, Arabia was originally settled by two distinct races, an earlier Cu#e Ethiopian race and a later Semitic race. In an article on Arabian states, written in Encyclopedia Britannica, the institutions of Yemen, Hadrabut, Oman, and adjoining districts point to an African origin. Arabia, Egypt, Sumer, and India were all colonies of the Cu#e Empire. Ethiopia was the mother of them all, and her rulers under various titles were great rulers. Researchers have found traces of wealthy nations, great buildings, and accomplishment in the areas of astronomy and other sciences. The Sumerians, however, achieved a level of excellence in various arts and sciences that none of the other cultures of Mesopotamia ever rose to. The Sumerian civilization can only be attributed to the arrival of black migrants from Africa's Nile Valley. According to writer Runoko Rashidi, Sumer flourished during the third millennium. In their own literature, the Sumerians referred to themselves as "blackheads." Sumer was only one of numerous Nilotic Cu#e colonies implanted in the early Asia. This empire consisted of a major urban center surrounded by smaller satellite towns and villages, mostly independent states. The Sumerian city-states merge to form a powerful unified kingdom led by provincial leaders granted divine status. Ur was the most powerful Sumerian city. This great Sumerian city lasted for nearly a century. The Sumerians architectural practice can be traced back to their ancestors of the Nile. The Sumerian Empire was quite prosperous. However, the Sumerian foundation was quite fragile. The coalition of the empire was erratic and unstable, which would imply that the Sumerians weren't concerned with the future, or long-term establishment. The Sumerian Empire downfall was due to northern invasions. The Indo-European and Semites invaded and destroyed the Sumerian civilization. Additionally, the agrarian resources had been severely limited which contributed to the destruction. Although it may seem that the Sumerians vanished from history, the factual reality of the archaeological and anthropological data strongly supports the Sumerians presence in eastern civilization. The Sumerians (of African heritage) planted the seeds for Mesopotamia and Babylonia, and were the pioneers and settlers of the Asian frontier. The Sumerians established the groundwork and set the guidelines for kingdoms and empires to follow.

Simply take a peek at any Egyptian statue of the gods....

Do they appear to have Caucasian or African features?

No...they look like ME

African/ Negroid

Not you.

Also, history isn't full of white people just because Hollywood directors cast actors and actresses like Liz Taylor to be Cleopatra

an "African" queen who has traditionally been played by White actresses such as Claudette Colbert, Vivien Leigh and, most notably, Elizabeth Taylor in a bloated 1963 epic. Many view the blanching of Cleopatra, Hollywood-style, as yet another example of the way in which history has been bastardized and Black people have been written out.

Originally posted by eleventhsun

When you have someone who builds 50 story structures capable of withstanding disasters telling you that they would have trouble building these objects than yes, it is relevant.

Lots of today's professional artistic painters will tell you that they would have trouble with painting the Sistine Chapel to the same standard as Michelangelo over 500 years ago......but is anyone seriously suggesting that Michelangelo must have had help from ET?

(A fine article and well written. Not sure where we went with the Book of Enoch in the midst of discussion of Ezekiel, but will look into that later).

Along the lines of a false claim that ancients were intellectually inferior...

Consider that Platonic thought still drives philosophic thought, Hebrew and Eastern spiritual writings still drive metaphysics-- we very much build on the genius of ancient man, and only occasionally match that genius, whether it be observation of nature, mathematics, literature, sciences or even religion and spirituality.

I read Von Daniken's Chariots of the Gods (and other works) when I was a teenager. Last year, I read Carl Jung's Flying Saucers: A Modern Myth of Things Seen in the Sky. Jung's work predated Von Daniken by at least a couple of decades and arrives at the inverse conclusion: Jung's contention is that UFO's are often (not always) spiritual experiences which can be, and for all of history have occasionally been, wrongly attributed to fantastic and superior technology.

If we arrogantly assume that ancients were incapable of fanciful story telling, mathematics, engineering, creativity, productivity and such, then we buy-in to post-modernism that ancient man saw mystery and wrongly assumed mystery equated to God. Yet, much of ancient religious and spiritual practice and teaching is highly complex, philosophical and is in keeping with common experience of all men across all cultures. The notion that man has a spiritual existence is ancient and modern and thus is human.

Jung and many other have observed that it is the arrogant denial of religion and spirituality which appear to coincide with the beginning of modern psychological, personality and psychiatric disorders; and so perhaps points to a cause and an effect. That is to say, that denying the spiritual denies a component of what it is to be human, without which we are incomplete and which incompleteness manifest itself as disorders in both rational thought and behavior.

Von Daniken takes the opposite view: That modern is man is innately superior to the ancients, and he is ready to explain away all spiritual notions while we somehow remain potentially subject to a vastly superior "other." Still, modern man has retained the spiritual despite acceptance of the technological, embracing both science and mystery. Jung gives evidence that the rational and spiritual belong together, while Von Daniken presumes, without evidence, that these cannot (or ought not) co-exist.

Steven Hawking writes angrily of the non-existence of God, and fellow scientists and the Church look on sympathetically at his rightful anger and pitiable condition; but are as unswayed by his rants about religion as they have been by some of his science. The rantings of religious zealots, impaling, or invading, or oppressing are equally sourced by pain and suffering-- examples of anger... but not of truth. The Creationism against Darwinism debate of my era is a shameful use of science as it is shameful use of religion.

But the beauty of truth, be it scientific or spiritual, has been the endeavor of humans, ancient and modern, and rightly defines the marvel of who we are.

To be fully human, it seems, is the application of the rational mind, and the operation of the soul. Heaven help us, if our best minds find it necessary to deny the existence of their own souls-- we will all be imperiled by such creatures-- and ancient history as well modern history serve as proof of that.

I will leave you all alone at the 'white' table, as Winged Bull suggested.

History is being denied here....deeply.

Because of that, I am truly wasting my time supporting the AAT because facts are being left out and denied and therefore the attempt to debunk this is purely BS.

Enjoy your 'white' table

Funny, I have this running from Netflix as I found this post. I'm on episode 10 of season 2.

I have a hard time buying most of their assertions, but I do find a lot of the physical/archaeological stuff they show very intriguing regardless of any supposed connection to aliens. Some of the artifacts and temples are just incredible and extremely fascinating to me.

My wife DVR's "trash" to watch - worthless shows she can have on in the background while getting the baby to sleep, etc. Stuff like this is my "trash". On some level it holds my attention and makes me ponder things, but as a whole I don't really take it seriously.

reply to post by Logical one


Thank you Logical one, that's a great analogy. The fact that the ancients performed a great many incredible feats doesn't mean we get to make stuff up about aliens

reply to post by Frira


Psychology was just emerging in those days, standards for how to diagnose disorders and what exactly constitutes a disorder are still changing to this day. As such any increase in personality disorder could just come from the refinement of psychology as a science. We see much the same thing when it comes to Autism, recent dramatic increases in autism have lead to panic and the anti-vax movement despite the fact that much of the increase can be explained by autism being a spectrum disorder that has become easier for us to detect at an earlier age.

The way I see it religion is a big enemy of mankind and should be opposed intellectually. Religion holds no claim over spirituality, spirituality is just a term for one spectrum of human experience that is particularly profound, it requires no religion to ascertain a "spiritual" experience.

Daniken and those like him seem content to cherry pick out myths that they can re-interpret as having to do with aliens while ignoring the myths that sound NOTHING like aliens. They choose to acknowledge only those gods that descend from the heavens while ignoring those who rule over terrestrial domains. To me they seem reminiscent of someone who believes they are psychic and focuses solely on the hits while ignoring the misses. To them mythology seems only worth taking into account if they can twist it into an account about alien beings.

reply to post by ButterCookie
If you want to bring the ancient aliens BS down to the level of skin colour, I think you're missing the point of the debunkers. From my point of view, humans built everything that others are suggesting aliens created.

This means that Egyptians built all the Egyptian stuff. It means that South Americans built Puma Punku and it means that North Europeans built Stonehenge. That's three different shades of skin and all humans...colour is irrelevant.

Debunked? So if you listed for each item, 10 explanations, you call it debunked to run with yours? Interesting. People have a right to sift through all the information they can and reach an opinion, but its not debunked.

The information on India is also very lacking. Its like taking an example, and reaching for one of the possible theories and maintaining it as fact, or logic. When each one connects to the others, and those who have studied and acted upon that knowledge, re-creating some of the technology, including the opinons of a host of far more reputable others, including Carl Sagan.

And I have no time to go through your list, but in each case, its only what you see. There are others here who have seen a bit more and how they relate.

Phil Day - Ancient Plastic Surgery - 1 of 12

(the rest are on the channel)


Forbidden Discoveries - Ancient Atomic Blast and Aeronautical Science



--Radioactive skeletons 3000 BC. Ruins of the ancient cities of Mohenjo-Daro and Harappa are extremely radioactive.

--Both were destroyed suddenly and surrounding area crtystallized, fused or melted! All skeletons flattened to the ground. The skeletons are considered most radiactive things found save in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

--5000-6000 years ago!

--The Brahmastra and Vimana used in the Mahabharata period are earlier version nuclear weapons and spacecrafts.

--A few yeats ago Chinese discovered some Sanskrit documents in Lhas, Tibet, and sent them to the University of Chandgirgarh to be translated. Dr. Ruth Reyna of the University said the documents contain the directions for building spacecraft.

--Indian epic, Ramayana highly detailed story of a trip to the moon and details a battle on the moon with an Asvin, and Atlantean airship.

--According to the ancient Vedic texts, ancient Hindus had flying machines which were called Vimanas: double deck CIRCULAR AIRCRAFT portholes and a dome!

--1885, the Vaimanika Sastra, a fourth century BC text written by Maharishi Bharadvajy using older texts as his source, discovered temple India.

The Vaimanika Sastra "Science of Aeronautics" is a Sanskrit text on aeronautics, discussing construction of Vimanas (saucers)

--There are 230 stanzas dealing with the construction, take off, cruising for thousands of miles, normal and forced landing, protection of the airships from storms and lightening, and how to switch the drive to solar energy from a FREE ENERGY SOURCE.

--shows ancient craft drawings found in temple.

--1895 Sanskrit scholar Shivkar Bapuji Talpade designed a basic aircraft ,hmmm....seemed to beat our invention by some time!!!!!!. called Maruksathi based on Vedic technology with a mercury vortex engine. Unmanned aircraft flew to a height of 1500 feet.

--According to Stephen Knapp the Vaimanika Shastra describes in detail the construction of what is called a mercury vortex engine the forerunner of ion engines being made by NASA.

--additional information on these engines can be found in the ancient Vedic text called Samaranga Sutradhara

--The revolutionary contents of the Vedas:

O royal skilled engineer, constructed sea-boats, porpelled on water by our experts, and airplanes, moving and flying upward, after the clouds that reside in the mid-region, that fly as the boats move on the sea. (Yajur-Veda 10.19)

--The atomic energy fissions, the ninety-nine elements, covering its path by the bombardments of neutrons without let or hindrance. (Atharva-Veda 20.41.1-3)

--Desirous of stalking the head, ie, The chief part of the swift power, hidden in the mass of the molecular adjstments of the elements, this atomic energy approaches it in the very act of fissioning it b the above noted bombardment . (Atharva-veda 20.41.1-3)

--The Rig Veda, the oldest document of the human race, includes references to the following modes of transportation:

Jalayan--a vehicle designed to operate in air and water. (Rig Veda 6.58.3)

Kaara--a vehicle that operates on ground and in water. (Rig Veda 9.14.1)

NOTE THE WORDS, the first SOUNDS LIKE PLANE and the second SOUNDS LIKE CAR.

www.abovetopsecret.com...
Astrophysics in Ancient times: ET technology?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Hinduism is the only religion in which the time scales correspond to those of modern scientific cosmology. The Hindu literature is work of a Genius.
Dr. Steinn Sigurdsson, Pennsylvania State University

It looks like that the writers of Vedas and Puranas came from the future to deliver knowledge. The works of the Ancient Arya Sages is mind blowing. There is no doubt that Puranas and Vedas are word of God.
Scott Sandford, Space Scientist, NASA

How could Hindus (Aryas) have possibly known all this 6,000 years ago, when scientists have only recently discovered this using advanced equipment which did not exist at that time? Such concepts were found only recently.
Dr. Kevin Hurley of the University of California at Berkeley

Hmmmm.... when you list probabilities, for each item studied, there are some very knowlegeable folk who would disagree with the OP, of course narrowing this down to one aspect, because I simply won't commit too much time to this.

However, you have to realize what logic means, To simply make a list of a some quick rational, still in the box, answers, and grab one or two in that category, though there are glaring anomalies that you have to ignore to do so, is not logic or science, though sometimes practiced by corporate science when its trying to sell something rather than educate.

In reality, those anomalies, need to fit in. The explanation needs to cover ALL the data.

www.abovetopsecret.com...
Incredibly Advanced Concepts in 5,000 Year Old Hindu Scripture!


www.hinduwisdom.info...

Louis Jacolliot (1837-1890), who worked in French India as a government official and was at one time President of the Court in Chandranagar, translated numerous Vedic hymns, the Manusmriti, and the Tamil work, Kural His masterpiece, La Bible dans l'Inde, stirred a storm of controversy. He praised the Vedas in his Sons of God, and said,:

"The Hindu revelation, which proclaims the slow and gradual formation of worlds, is of all revelations the only one whose ideas are in complete harmony with modern science. ".....



Sir John Woodroffe (1865-1936) the well known scholar...


Count Maurice Maeterlinck (1862-1949) was a Belgian writer of poetry, a wide variety of essays. He won the 1911 Nobel Prize for literature. In his book Mountain Paths, says:

"he falls back upon the earliest and greatest of Revelations, those of the Sacred Books of India with a Cosmogony which no European conception has ever surpassed." .....


Dr. Carl Sagan in his book Broca's Brain: Reflections on the Romance of Science, remarks::

""The idea that scientists or theologians, with our present still puny understanding of this vast and awesome cosmos, can comprehend the origins of the universe is only a little less silly than the idea that Mesopotamian astronomers of 3,000 years ago – from whom the ancient Hebrews borrowed, during the Babylonian captivity, the cosmological accounts in the first chapter of Genesis – could have understood the origins of the universe."

ancient hindu cosmology (carl sagen)


Ancient Aircraft Vimana's


en.wikipedia.org...

www.hinduwisdom.info...

"absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." - Dr Carl Sagan (1034 - 1996)
"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." - Aldous Huxley (1894-1963). 
"Don't let your minds be cluttered up with the prevailing doctrine." - Alexander Fleming (1881-1955).
“To deny to Babylon, to Egypt and to India, their part in the development of science and scientific thinking is to defy the testimony of the ancients, supported by the discovery of the modern authorities.  -  L. C. Karpinski 
“Thus we see that India’s marvels were not always false.”  - Lynn Thorndike.

www.ivarta.com...

Interestingly enough the Indian Times tried to state this mans' invention didn't work as stated, which looks like propaganda.

It is interesting to note that the Academy of Sanskrit Research in Melkote, near Mandya, had been commissioned by the Aeronautical Research Development Board, New Delhi, to take up a one-year study, ‘Non-conventional approach to Aeronautics’, on the basis of Vaimanika Shastra. As a result of the research, a glass-like material which cannot be detected by radar has been developed by Prof Dongre, a research scholar of Benaras Hindu University. A plane coated with this unique material cannot be detected using radar. (Did You Know this? www.indpride.com...)


…


But perhaps the most interesting thing, about the Indian science of aeronautics and Bharadwaja`s research in the field was that they were successfully tested in actual practice by an Indian over hundred years ago. In 1895, full eight years before the Wright Brothers` first flight at Kitty hawk, North Carolina, USA, Shivkar Bapuji Talpade and his wife gave a thrilling demonstration flight on the Chowpatty beach in Mumbai.

An even more astonishing feature of Talpade’s aircraft was the power source he used- An Ion Engine. The theory of the Ion Engine has been credited to Robert Goddard, long recognized as the father of Liquid-fuel Rocketry. It is claimed that in 1906, long before Goddard launched his first modern rocket, his imagination had conceived the idea of an Ion rocket. But the fact is that not only had the idea of an Ion Engine been conceived long before Dr Goddard, it had also been materialized in the form of Talpade’s aircraft.

This is actually known, and completely buried and then misconstrued. Their own institute Aeronautical Research Development Board has studied and duplicated the vedas as well, and developed stealth technology.

If even one thing shows some advanced science, and you're looking at a list of choices, or probabilities, but you run with the one that ignores this, you have not used LOGIC.

So, recap. Logic. Process of elimination of the list of theories when studying. If you choose the same type of possible answer from your lists for each case and category, and ignore evidence, then that shows more of a mindset or agenda than logic.

Zeroing on one item from the list (that ties into the others), we find that there is not only reams of anomalies, but many great minds have studied this and concluded differently. Not only that, but we can assume, its para military high tech for ages. India developed a stealth technology duplicating the vedas. So the OP is mindset.

What I am so shocked at though, is the number who quickly agree and shelf important information when someone offers one alternative answer on the list. There is only one truth. And this case there is evidence.

Just one little science fact, and there is much evidence, blows the whole interconnected OP out of the water, in reality.

Which means, who says that maztec glider plane didn't fly? It sure looks like it does? Can you debunk its design? It was made into a model that did? Can you debunk that demonstration. It reveals something.

www.world-mysteries.com...

I will tell you this, I don't think it had a combustion engine.

Originally posted by ButterCookie
Are you serious?

Your source is nothing but speculation, plagarized across he internet, no clear origin or sources cited.

Truth is, the origin of the Sumerian people are somewhat a mystery, no clear consensus among archaeologists. There are some who believe they are of Turkish descent, having come from the North. Others, Kramer for instance, think they may have originated in what is now modern day Iran; Kramer further argues they mixed with Semitic peoples migrating from the West and formed the Sumer civilization. This seems to be contrary to arguments the the Sumer people were not Semitic, but this is based on the fact the language was not Semitic. It could be that the Sumerian people were a mix of cultures but non-Semitic language became their primary language.

Here is a good primer on the "Sumerian Problem"; nowhere is mentioned a Cu#e Empire, as in your source. And before you play the ridiculous race card saying this is white people stealing African history, none of the people mentioned in the paper as being possible candidates would be described as white either.

Originally posted by ButterCookie
In their own literature, the Sumerians referred to themselves as "blackheads."

The references to themselves as "blackheads" and "blackfaced people" may have been referring to their hair and beards.

Originally posted by ButterCookie
Also, history isn't full of white people just because Hollywood directors cast actors and actresses like Liz Taylor to be Cleopatra

Cleopatra was white. She certainly was not Africa; she was an Ptolemy, a Greek.

Originally posted by ButterCookie
I will leave you all alone at the 'white' table, as Winged Bull suggested.

You are a liar. I never said anything of the sort. I said adult table.

Originally posted by ButterCookie
And don't forget, colonialism brought new borders for Africa

That is completely irrelevant to the topic. You are talking about Sub-Saharan Africa. Mesopotamia has never been considered part of Africa by anyone, at any time. But please, if you think I am wrong, show is the evidence.

Originally posted by ButterCookie

the Council of Nicea, you asked?

The quote you provided was completely irrelevant to your claims.