Ancient Aliens Debunked?

reply to post by Titen-Sxull

This has become an iconic artifact amongst AAH proponents. If this is a plane as they suggest where are the engines? Where's the cockpit? Why are there clearly two EYES? And why exactly does ancient foreknowledge of the plane logically lead one to ALIENS? We humans invented the plane, not aliens, why would we credit them with this artifact? A civilization capable of crossing interstellar space wouldn't likely have need for such things and according to AAH proponents themselves ancient mythical accounts describe flying saucers NOT airplanes.

Poor...poor...poor...effort at "debunking". It's stylized art. It is not meant to be a life-like model of a plane. It was crafted by people who probably didn't even understand what it was. I also doubt aliens had aerodynamically designed craft, since they are actually traveling through space, and presumably large distances. But to say "we invented planes" is really quite silly, you didn't put much thought into that statement. It's possible they were using aerodynamic craft designed for use in our atmosphere, for transportation/shipping reasons.

OP- You obviously have done alot of work trying to "debunk" AAH. I applaud you for all of your work...but.....you obviously are one those folks who already has made a decision that AAH is only bunk. There is as little or less evidence to support your claims than there is that support the AAH.

You only have to have an open mind to see the evidence is clear. WE HAVE BEEN VISITED in our past. I have seen more evidence to support this claim than I have that supports that there is a "god" or "gods" that rule over mankind.

Stones that we cannot cut, move or stack today. Images on the ground that can only be seen from the sky (why?). Every major religion saying "god' or "gods" came from the sky. The list goes on...you know that. YOU cannot win this war of theories. It will be proven. You can never prove your side. Time will reveal the truth as we are beginning to see.

reply to post by ChaoticOrder


Saying that human beings invented planes is a silly statement?

Have you never heard of the Wright brothers? Kitty Hawk? The point of bringing up that we invented planes is simple, it only looks like a plane coincidentally. Only because we're familiar with the shape of planes.

I agree its definitely stylized art, looks a lot like a fish. For one it has eyes, it also has that indentation for gills and the upright tail with lines running through it.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/989e04940b58.jpg[/atsimg]

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


But you know, they took one of them "Fishes", build it in greater scale, put a propeller in front of it and it turns out, it flew. Maybe its a flying fish???

OMG how many reply's on one subject? Fellow ATS members end the bickering, the fact is no one on this website was around 5000 years ago unless you're Gandalf from "Lord of the Rings" all we have are some funky manuscripts, and religious books and texts that have been through god knows how many peoples hands. We may never know about the not so distant past in mankind's history. Who knows there could be a major secret in our past worth concealing.

reply to post by CarlitosAmsel


I've seen the footage, definitely interesting. Could this mean that the ancients understood a bit about flight? It's certainly possible. Does this indicate alien influence? Not even close.

I will debunk your (de)bunk with just a few images.

~ "The Madonna with Saint Giovannino" ~
Upon closer inspection, the man seems to be looking away from the UFO, behind him and over his shoulder.
Or, more likely, the notably out of place object may be imagined floating above the ground between them.
From either perspective, could Mary be seen as blocking the two babies from the flying saucer's view?
Perhaps the dog glimpses the hovering object ~ with it's mouth open, it could even be barking at it.
But what is that dark, sparkling, disassembled figure beside them ~ a dwarf, or an ethereal being?
A body, legs, head, and tail can be made out. Could this represent a type of alien, or demon?
Also, Mary's halo seems a bit shadowy ~ more like a vaporous disc than a ring of light.

Haratonohama, Hitachi, Japan ~ 1803 The book "Ume No Chiri" (Dust of Apricot) tells us that a "foreign ship and crew" was once witnessed at Haratonohama (Haratono Seashore) in Hitachi no Kuni (Ibaragi Prefecture), Japan. The outer shell was made of iron and glass ~ and strange letters were seen inside the ship. Notice also four examples of alien heiroglyphs.

Image from the French book "Le Livre Des Bonnes Moeurs" by Jacques Legrand, 1338 (left). Sphere resembles a Montgolfiere (French for baloon) but there were no balloons 14th centurey France. Notice also: several daylight stars, the monstrous faces in the rocks and the men are offering seeds?

Strange suited figure found in Kiev. It dates to ca. 4,000 BC.

A cave paintings from Tanzania, estimated to be up to 29,000 years old. This depicts several disc shaped objects.

I would like to say that within ancient alien theories, and many topics that are mentioned on this site there is an element of what i like to say "noise" - you have to take some things with a pinch of salt, but I think that there is also an element of truth - many things point to earlier contact and some things are down right silly and very far fetched..... there are many new ways of thinking ie like the string theory, a few years ago theories that were thought impossible that are now very possible.

to just throw it all away to call it rubbish or whatever is not the objective thing to do and to be honest - each to their own - much like religion, or gods, or however you want to live your life...People will take from things what they want to see and that is their perogative.

There are some very plausable Ancient Alien things, but some as i say are down right laughable... but I think everyone should be able to think what they want!

reply to post by Titen-Sxull

The point of bringing up that we invented planes is simple, it only looks like a plane coincidentally.

We didn't invent planes out of thin air. We discovered the laws of aerodynamics and how to generate lift effectively. It's a science, and all planes have similar components. The model doesn't actually look all that much like a plane, it has all the common components of a plane. These models have essentially all the critical parts most aerodynamic craft will have. Coincidence? I think not. Even my rational side tells me the person(s) who created these models has witnessed similar craft or had knowledge of aerodynamics.

reply to post by Amaterasu
I've lately begun to realise clearly that there are a group of members who push dodgy, dishonest people as messengers of 'truth.' They wriggle out of admitting that their 'truth-seekers' are bogus. They always give out the claim of 'personal knowledge.'

If it's all about 'the message' like you all insist...why not find someone 'with the message' who hasn't discredited themselves by openly lying through their teeth to their loyal audience?

When our politicians lie, we dismiss anything else they say; we no longer trust them. In the case of these people, we suddenly say, 'hmmmm, well, perhaps they are protecting themselves for a reason? Maybe we shouldn't throw out the baby with the bathwater?' Why the hell not? Throw 'em out and throw 'em far! If they had respect for their audience, they wouldn't be lying to them would they?!

Forgive the tone..I've been on ATS too much this week.

Nothing has been debunked in this thread, just 1 guy telling you his opinion on everything.

I took the liberty of skipping 100% of everything you had to say, well I skimmed and found nothing significant/worth reading.

The ancient Alien theory is not going to be "debunked" by anybody, because this theory has evidence.

The drawings/art is not really what interests me, its the massive scale of their buildings and the way they were cut which is the evidence I need.

All you need to know is the Great Pyramid has 2,000,000+ blocks weighing between 1-30 tons some heavier, and If you we're to place 10 of these stones a day, it would take you 665 years straight with 24/7 work.

You don't do something for 600+ years that has zero payoff at all, the children we're inspired by whatever inspired their fathers for generations.

But you can continue to believe people that thought the sun was 17 miles away and that lived in the middle of a desert built that, with quarries a long walk away, limited food production because of the desert meaning not many workers can be there at once, and copper tools leaving cuts that only diamond covered tools can make.

Besides, who accepts the "official" written version of anything anymore?

thanx for sharing, great thread

S and F

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Allred5923

 

Here we go again.

Yes Phage...."Again" and again and again ansd again if neccessary. Close minded thinking gets us nowhere, "Don't you think?"

The dyarite slabs at Puma Punko ? Come on, it is something that carver's and professional stone sharpers say they could not even do with such perfection.

Source please. I mean a stonecutter. Not one of those kooks on Ancient Aliens.

I wasn't just speaking of the stone cutters and sculptor's that are available today, I am also saying that the method that had to be used is very difficult even in modern standards. They, as far as we know, didn't have diamond tipped lathes, CNC or other devices for such precision of such articulated work.Heck, they don't even know how or when these megalithic stones were cut, nor by whom or how.

The Mayan, Incas and Aztec have been found in existence all over the Americas of that region, not simply in one place, and the tribes and the people from here to there all have tales of approximately the same stories and experiences during this great migration from the plains

Wow, people of a common origin have common myths and legends. What a surprise.

We are not a solstice race from the get go, we had to be taught to understand what all of it meant, unless of course you have the answer for that for the first telescope invented was by the Sumerians? If so , "Prove it."

You don't need a telescope to note the solstice. All you need is good observational skills. If your livelihood depends on knowing when to plant, your observational skills get good. Very good.

I know Phage, solstices are rather the omnipotent example of the first crop farmers and oracles. What I was trying trying to get across was that, even if you don;t agree, there was celestial observation that made way to the advent of solstitial advancement. They were events that had followed from one to the other. Once it became pertinent for us as a species to grow our own food and manage the season's, they had it laid out for them by way of academic means, not a chance self perception of all thing's that were or are. Just as we don't until this very day. But all thing's that become more advanced as we use their technology from the past to figure out what our future may hold.
Your argument is contiguous of what we have discussed before, just as I may seem to be on the same track as well. I have the ancient artifacts (Minus a few of the obvious ones) that have yet to be explained or understood.
The OP of this thread has failed miserably to his continence of having the Ancient Alien thing debunked. He has there for discredited once again any true disclosure of these event's of having not taken place, and that my friend to me is why I stand my ground. I am not saying you are incorrect Phage, I am just saying there has been nothing for evidences that says it "Didn't" happen this way here on good ole mother earth.
If the burden of proof is left upon our shoulders or watch, why does your point remain as the only answer to these inquiries? Seems very narrow minded to me, and with the ancient alien theory, it answers a lot more questions than the current status-quo.

Maybe some very important things will come the newly translated Sumerian texts, the words have multiple meanings with one word affiliation, that too me say there may more to this matter than meets the current state of mind and understanding.

Ancient World Sumerian Texts are by my standards the epitome of the answers we seek.
Ancient World Dictionary Completed Sumerian Texts

Originally posted by Kandinsky
reply to post by Amaterasu

 

I've lately begun to realise clearly that there are a group of members who push dodgy, dishonest people as messengers of 'truth.' They wriggle out of admitting that their 'truth-seekers' are bogus. They always give out the claim of 'personal knowledge.'

If it's all about 'the message' like you all insist...why not find someone 'with the message' who hasn't discredited themselves by openly lying through their teeth to their loyal audience?

When our politicians lie, we dismiss anything else they say; we no longer trust them. In the case of these people, we suddenly say, 'hmmmm, well, perhaps they are protecting themselves for a reason? Maybe we shouldn't throw out the baby with the bathwater?' Why the hell not? Throw 'em out and throw 'em far! If they had respect for their audience, they wouldn't be lying to them would they?!

Forgive the tone..I've been on ATS too much this week.

Not a problem, Kand. [smile]

Like I said, I'm on the fence about Morning Sky himself. I do find it interesting that as of late He has shown interest in squelching the Papers on the web. I ask Myself why... I suspect profit as motive.

As for the "baby and the bathwater..." When One finds explanations for things, for so MANY things, from reading a given work, it's difficult to to use the distaste for the messenger as an excuse to throw out the message. I am not saying that I take any part as gospel, but that, allowing for the scenario offered, the world finally makes so much more sense than it did before I read the work.

[shrug]

Originally posted by TheArchaeologist

Helicopter? Spaceship? Intriguing either way.

As far as the Pre Incan "flying machine", the odd thing about them is that their wings are in a spot that you cannot find in nature, not even in flying fish. It intrigues me for sure.

Not saying it's alien, but it certainly would change the world as we know it.

Here is the one thing that nobody has mentioned. Why would AAH require a craft with wings to begin with? Interstellar space travel certainly is void of air, therefore the need for wings is made moot by the very technology that would have brought them here to begin with.

The following are pictures I have taken of zoomorphic artifacts on display at the Field Museum of Chicago.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c4afc22a3dd6.jpg[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/2ef2990f2342.jpg[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/56c64fe8a322.jpg[/atsimg]

I think the concern - or rather the intrigue into the various figures that mimic vehicles of flight is that none of them really look like animals at all. All of them have tail stabilizers with a rudder... what bird or animal exhibits that?

All the birds I have ever seen that can fly have tails that fan out and down - and look nothing like airplane tails.

So, of course these artifacts bring up many questions. Are they showing that ancient man was contacted with aliens? No, I don't believe that at all. I think they are showing that we are not the first humans that developed flight.

I also fail to see why advanced alien flight technology would need the use of runways to take off and land. I also fail to understand why such advanced alien construction means used only stones instead of advanced metal alloys or carbon nanotubes or at least built a central power plant or something to assist in stacking of just stones on top of just stones. The extraterrestrial intervention in construction to me just doesn't pass the common sense logic test to me.

reply to post by phantomjack

Here is the one thing that nobody has mentioned. Why would AAH require a craft with wings to begin with?

Atmospheric conditions for one. Would have either had an advanced propulsion system from what we have to day, i.e. hydrogen,ionic or even plasma. Who knows for sure, but would be a practical application for getting around our planet with less stress of taking the mother ship all over.
One thing is, that most here that are skeptical say that these carving's of flying craft are remnants of a defacing by the ancient people or by the carver's, if this is fact "Why are they so detailed in shape, size and dimension? There is to the right of the engravings a blank space, I continually wonder what had previously been there. No mention of ever finding the lost fragment either.Zawi Hawass is the chief denier of these alligations being anything but happen stance, but, Mr. Hawas is rather one sided when it come to his peoples heritage and culture.

Interstellar space travel certainly is void of air, therefore the need for wings is made moot by the very technology that would have brought them here to begin with.

I have thought this out as well, it refers back to the above statement of probable portability and maneuverability for quick jaunts and regular travels. But, I am not for sure, just speculation.

reply to post by Illustronic


agree dude, if they are that advance why not build a metal pyramid in Egypt with electronic booty traps with advance surveillance camera

Originally posted by Jrocbaby

All you need to know is the Great Pyramid has 2,000,000+ blocks weighing between 1-30 tons some heavier, and If you we're to place 10 of these stones a day, it would take you 665 years straight with 24/7 work.

You don't do something for 600+ years that has zero payoff at all, the children we're inspired by whatever inspired their fathers for generations.

What makes you think that they were only laying 10 stones a day? There were hundreds and hundreds of workers at a time, cutting and carving and laying stones. Your entire statement is moot since it didn't take 600+ years to build.

There are some truly amazing structures still standing all around what was once considered ancient egypt. 100's of them... Probably some that can be considered more impressive than the GP. So did aliens build those too?