Tuol Sleng Genocide Museum

I must admit to knowing little about the Khmer Rouge, but I must also admit that it may not be entirely the fault of the media. I read a lot of books, I watch a lot of documentaries, do a lot of artwork, etc. and there just aren't enough hours in the day to read up on everything I'd like to and watch every interesting documentary on TV, so one is bound to end up being ignorant about some things, even if one really ought to know them.

I can't help but wonder though, what other rather big and serious things are going on, or have gone on that I know absolutely nothing about, just because I didn't chance upon the right books or have the TV on at the right time. Just now I mentioned in passing the Emperor Bokassa of Central Africa. If I hadn't read an article about him in a book of dictators I bought on a whim, I'd never have heard of that either.

Reminds me of Rumsfeld and his unknown unknowns.......

reply to post by mblahnikluver


Off topic, SORRY for my behaviour last time we meet. Sorry to offend.

On topic.
These tales from Cambodia have alway's moved and saddened me.
The atrocities that this regime inflicted on their people was and is inexcusable. Im at a loss for words to describe how i feel about it, it still sickens me how a country could sacrifice entire generations for one mans ideals.
You think WW2 would have taught the world something, but it's obvious it didn't.
The sad part about the Cambodian genocide is that the children were violated just as much if not more than the adults.
Museums like this need to be kept and talked about just so this and future generation don't make the same mistake's.
Thanks for Post OP, thanks for bringing it to our attention.

S&F

reply to post by meathed


I wonder if the fact that the Soviet Union were on the side of the winning allies in WW2 may have actually prompted many communists into action in the years and decades following. I remember seeing some Chinese Maoist propoganda once that went along the lines of "Communists defeated fascism, we win wars".

If they learned any lessons from WW2, it may have been the wrong ones.

Originally posted by superwurzel666
If they learned any lessons from WW2, it may have been the wrong ones.

I think that it was definately the wrong ones. We learnt that most people will willingly murder if they believe that it will lead to an improvement in their status. Which isn't so much a new lesson, as an industrialisation of an existing process. But the key lesson learnt from WW2, it seems, was the legitimising of civilian as targets.

reply to post by Pythein


I knew what you were saying and yes I agree genocides are not given any kind of spotlight so to speak.

They are nasty to see and hear about.

Thanks for the video

reply to post by meathed


Last time we met? LOL I must have forgot


Thanks for the reply

Good read MB.

I hadn't really looked into Khmer Rouge past Pol Pot before, so big thanks for bringing this to ATS!

reply to post by Pythein


I think you are right in this, but I would add that WW2 also led directly to the decline of the European colonial empires, which in the minds of the far left, would be seen as the same as the fascists. So the Communists playing a big role in defeating fascism may have been seen as part of a larger war against bourgeois imperialism in general. I believe this may have given them great zeal in some of the horrendous things they did, a necessary evil, in their minds, in order to create a better tomorrow.

Trouble is of course, the communists ended up being just another lot of fascists; totalitarian states ruled by genocidal men in military uniforms who like telling everyone what to do, and kill anyone who might object.

Originally posted by superwurzel666
reply to post by meathed

 

I wonder if the fact that the Soviet Union were on the side of the winning allies in WW2 may have actually prompted many communists into action in the years and decades following. I remember seeing some Chinese Maoist propoganda once that went along the lines of "Communists defeated fascism, we win wars".

Great point.
I understand what your saying and what you stated has alot of merit behind it.
Its an interesting thought you have had. Certain countries would have adopted certain winning way's from the victors. We the democratic and republic countries had the same posters about how it was our governments have won that same war. I wonder now how many of other countries adapted and adopted our way of government through our propaganda???

If they learned any lessons from WW2, it may have been the wrong ones.

Agreed again.
The only thing i think we have learnt since WW2 is how to oppress the masses and how to kill each other quicker and cheaper. So yes, only bad lesson's have been learnt since WW2.

Originally posted by superwurzel666
reply to post by Pythein

 

I think you are right in this, but I would add that WW2 also led directly to the decline of the European colonial empires, which in the minds of the far left, would be seen as the same as the fascists. So the Communists playing a big role in defeating fascism may have been seen as part of a larger war against bourgeois imperialism in general. I believe this may have given them great zeal in some of the horrendous things they did, a necessary evil, in their minds, in order to create a better tomorrow.

That is because Stalinist Russia wasn't a communist state, it was totalitarian state just like the one it helped destroy in Germany. Stalin was backed because he was considered the lesser of two evils, and by funnelling funds out of Germany in the closing months of the war, that were then reinjected via the Marshall plan, Germany could be quickly rebuilt as a Democratic Republic that served as an effective bulwark against the spread of 'Communism'. The isolation of the Societ state, combined with it's corruption and mismanagement, effectively took Russia out of the empirical game. That the UK lost it's colonial assets was largely irrelevent in the long run, she maintained her independence from mainland Europe, always her primary consideration, and as importantly, she retained the key strategic ports that ensure the UKs freedom of the seas. If you look at Churchill's speeches throughout his career, this was almost exactly what he had proposed should be the UKs objective for the further, and that was when he was a relatively young man.

reply to post by Pythein

No doubt that that is ultimately the case, but for a Marxist or Communist guerilla in the far east or some other such region, whose only education (if any at all) was extreme leftist propaganda, then the collapse of imperialism coinciding with far left uprisings may well have given them false hope of a victory preceding Utopia. Stalinist Russia did indeed become a mere totalitarian dictatorship, rather that an ideologically genuine commune (whose long term ultimate aim would be abolition of the central state), but how many of their young men understood that? Who would dare to have informed them? They only knew what their superiors thought they should know, and asking too many questions was dangerous.

On the whole, I still think you're right though.

It is during these moments I reflect upon a selfish world who thinks that we may possibly be on the verge of "ascension" and I find it highly doubtful.

We have all Sinned here by living well, and by living away from the "ability" to never ever harm another human being; yet, each of us knows that within a human lies this fundamental Truth about our Nature!

Think about that! People cannot keep from harming other people! On the street, in the neighborhoods, in our Government's and their Affairs, and in our own homes!

The Nature of the Beast! It is gruesome and the ugliest part of us all!