Federal Judge Prohibits Prayer at Texas Graduation Ceremony

if you want prayer, will you allow an islamic prayer ? can I come to the graduation and start chanting praise allah ?

be careful what you wish for

keep prayer in church

Originally posted by muzzleflash


Why does everything have to be banned? What happened to Freedom?

Your freedom ends where my freedom begins. Want the freedom to say a prayer? Do it silently, do it at home, do it at church. I want the freedom to get an education without being bombarded with religious ideology.

Again, prayer has no place in public education.

Originally posted by drwizardphd

Originally posted by muzzleflash


Why does everything have to be banned? What happened to Freedom?

Your freedom ends where my freedom begins. Want the freedom to say a prayer? Do it silently, do it at home, do it at church. I want the freedom to get an education without being bombarded with religious ideology.

Again, prayer has no place in public education.

So you admit the First Amendment is a mistake and should be rewritten or redacted?

And no one's freedom ends anywhere. Freedom means we don't trample someone else's liberty (rights).
My freedom doesn't end where your's begins, nope. My freedom exists right here and your's exists right there, the borders never overlap or conflict. Anytime there is a conflict it's called trampling liberty.

You do NOT have a right to make someone shut up, but you have the right to ignore it.

Everyone has always whispered the truth hidden away in their homes at night, the First Amendment was written to protect people when speaking in public in front of everyone, that their right to speak is protected by the law and the government's job is to uphold that.

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
if you want prayer, will you allow an islamic prayer ? can I come to the graduation and start chanting praise allah ?

be careful what you wish for

keep prayer in church

You can pray to the Fettuccine Monster for all I care.

I am not really religious but I will protect the rights of those whom choose to speak their minds.

Saying something doesn't actually hurt anyone. But gagging someone preventing them from saying it hurts their liberty. And you know what? It hurts everyone else's liberty too.

We are all damaged.

reply to post by muzzleflash


I agree a lot of people forget that the constitution is not a restrictive document to the citizens of the United State but one saying what the government can or can not do to you. It's restrictive towards governmental actions like this one prohibiting a private citizen from making a religious statement. That is not a right given to government.

Originally posted by Golithion
reply to post by muzzleflash

 

I agree a lot of people forget that the constitution is not a restrictive document to the citizens of the United State but one saying what the government can or can not do to you. It's restrictive towards governmental actions like this one prohibiting a private citizen from making a religious statement. That is not a right given to government.

You are right.

I am glad that a lot of people understand that very important distinction.

I find all too often people think the Constitution "gives" us rights, when in reality it doesn't give anything. It's a Social Contract to protect our natural rights from Government Tyranny.

It sets restrictions on the government's authorities. That's why it's so beautiful.

The upsetting part is that we are witnessing right in front of our eyes a carte blanche complete perversion of our system. The current lawmakers and judiciary are full of contempt and disdain for our beloved Bill of Rights, and typically trample it any time they get the opportunity.

It's not for nothing though. They are making huge $$$ off selling us out to the highest bidders.

The cup is half full though. At least you know whats up and you care about it. That makes things a little better.

Originally posted by drwizardphd
reply to post by bozzchem

 

Do we really need prayer in school?

Let's keep prayer in church. The fact is when you say a Christian prayer in a public setting, you're basically excluding anyone who isn't Christian. It's simply not appropriate in an educational setting.

Why?

For better or worse this country was founded on "Christian" concepts and philosophies. And so, because a minority wishes to make it not so, it must be... Um... Not so?

I feel like it would be much better to take the judges and courts and "individual" opining out of the mix... Make it a general ballot, nation wide, and see what happens.

If it were done that way, we wouldn't have to debate, you wouldn't have to hate or deride me, and I wouldn't have to hate or deride you... That's what a Republic is about... Majority rule.

Originally posted by drwizardphd

Originally posted by muzzleflash


Why does everything have to be banned? What happened to Freedom?

Your freedom ends where my freedom begins. Want the freedom to say a prayer? Do it silently, do it at home, do it at church. I want the freedom to get an education without being bombarded with religious ideology.

Again, prayer has no place in public education.

That's pooh-pooh Muzzleflash! It only has no place in public education if a majority deems it as out of place...

No one can prohibit an individual's will to pray, does it need to be public?

I don't think so...

I pray every day..

This is more of the divide and conquer deal...

Don't fall for it..

IMO of course..

Originally posted by JacKatMtn
No one can prohibit an individual's will to pray, does it need to be public?

I don't think so...

So I can pray during a trial? Or a school assembly?These are all public settings. How about islamic prayers? Lets just just open the whole thing up right? right.

Why can't Christians pray before or after graduation? What's wrong? Why must the evangelicals always dump their religion on the rest of us? We get it, Christian, you believe this is a christian nation, whatever. We don't need you to demonstrate, really.

I see no reason that there MUST be prayer during such events as graduation, other than to show it off to the rest of us, really.

If the student voluntarily prays, their is nothing anyone can do about it.

A school employee can't lead in prayer.


I do not agree with the law, but that is how to get around the federal judges ruling.

I'm fact, that is what has been being dome at football games since another judge blocks announcers for praying.



Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

Irreparable harm? Really? Sounds like a whiner didn't want to hear someone thanking their god of choice for helping them out. What...does the sound of prayer burn atheists and agnostics or something? To a believer in [insert god of choice here] a prayer is reverent, relaxing, thankful, and loving. To you, they're just words.

"Thank you, God, for helping me pass my classes. I praise your name. Amen." Was that really that bad for you? Did any of you just burst into flame? Get pics for us.

I seriously don't understand the anger and vitriol from some of you guys over a prayer.

/TOA

One can only hope that someone sneezes, followed by a mass "God Bless You!"

I can just see this prison conversation:

Why are you in jail? Uhhhhhh someone sneezed and I told them "God bless you."

The judge needs to actually read the First Amendment: Here is a refresher.....

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

The US government was founded on FREEDOM OF RELIGION, not freedom from religion. The US is now turning into the country the founders fled from. Religious persecution, insane taxes, and probably soon military drafting.

reply to post by muzzleflash


So Muzzleflash, if that is the case and what you believe I don't expect to hear any complaints from you when the prayer isn't from the Bible but from the Quran then. Correct?

reply to post by muzzleflash


oh spare me. nobody's liberty is being threatened here. this is a simple matter of what is appropriate for a graduation ceremony. the constitution does not mean you can do whatever you want wherever you want, whenever you want, I'm sure you understand that.

I don't know what it worse, people trying to turn this into a constitutional issue, or the fact that people need laws to inform them of how to behave in public.

go to the ceremony, save your applause for the end, take pictures

simple

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
reply to post by muzzleflash

 

oh spare me. nobody's liberty is being threatened here. this is a simple matter of what is appropriate for a graduation ceremony. the constitution does not mean you can do whatever you want wherever you want, whenever you want, I'm sure you understand that.

I don't know what it worse, people trying to turn this into a constitutional issue, or the fact that people need laws to inform them of how to behave in public.

go to the ceremony, save your applause for the end, take pictures

simple

The court case is what turned it into a Constitutional issue. Not ATS. The the court decided that liberty was to be threatened.

/TOA

reply to post by Southern Guardian


Perhaps my previous wasn't clear..

I can pray anywhere I choose, and so can everyone else no matter their religion..

All I am saying is that the government cannot tell me where and when I can and cannot pray.. It seems silly to me, and is definitely used as a political wedge between folks to distract from more important things like how inept our elected are in their responsibilities to the people...

Prayer in public is okay if the wordings are suited so as to not leave out other "religions", meaning don't just use the Lord's name in vain, that sort. Honestly, praying should be done in private (and at home preferably). So yeah, just respect other forms of prayer. If she does get the exception, then others will do so as well.

Good. You either respect freedom or you don't. Those that only want "freedom" on their terms and only for them, deserve none. Go join your Caliphate brethren. Sharia or Christian theocracy. Both are sides of the same coin and Christofascists are EXACTLY equivalent to Wahabbiests, except that the Muslim extremists have the balls and/or intelligence to admit it.