Big Honchos Consider Radical Change in Global Drug Policy - It failed, try something different

And my response to another poster ...

Drink has sooo much to answer for .. and its pushers ...

So much rape, muggings, murders, and general violence, which costs the tax payer for UK NHS, to patch everyone up ... all the policing at weekends ..

Of course theres the argument, that not everyone does these things, so its down to the individual .. not drink ..
I disagree with that .. and have first hand, saw my beautiful loving sibling, turn from someone who loves me, to having a facial expression of utter evil, whilst telling me in a demonic voice how he wants to kill me ... This is not the brother i know .. And although it may not affect everyone like this .. its completely obvious to me, it affects faaar too many people, in a similar negative way, even if not to the same extreme extent ..

People will be hard pushed to find such a nice individual, have such an extreme negative violent change, whilst smoking a herbal cigarette ...

We are losing the war on drugs. You know what that implies? There is a war being fought and people on drugs are winning it.
-Bill Hicks

Originally posted by canselmi
We are losing the war on drugs. You know what that implies? There is a war being fought and people on drugs are winning it.
-Bill Hicks

Or from the governments perspective, the Drug Barons are winning ...

But part of me cant help suspect, that, the government are more 'intertwined' with the drug barons at the highest levels, than we are led to believe ... And if so .. The 'war' is a mock for show, to distract us from their involvement / agenda .. at least that may be one aspect .. i am sure there are many fold reasons for this war, the way it is ...

ETA - And also ... perhaps im paranoid ... But, i doubt drugs (including marijuana) will truly lose their criminal status in my lifetime, in the literal sense, but more likely to be re-classified, and 'tolerated' ...

By keeping some sort of illegal status, even on marijuana (etc), keeps a huge section of the population in the 'law breakers' category, which potentially gives the government far more control of sorts, over a significant part of the population ... And also keeps this division we have in society between the herb smokers for example, who are looked down upon by many who think nothing of consuming alcohol to the point they dont recall what disturbing acts they did, whilst pointing the finger at herb smokers for breaking the law ..

I am yet unsure what is to be achieved by this 'division', but have no doubt it is a manufactured and intended effect, as opposed to a side-effect.
I am also unsure as to what control keeping a huge portion of the population classed as 'law breakers' would give them, and why they would want it ... But again .. I doubt having so many law breakers is an unwanted side effect. Certainly, keeping it within the constraints of the 'law', would be a handy tool for the police (and tptb) to use, at their discretion .. And could be used as a bargaining tool ... Or to apply force, to known criminals (or not), that they would otherwise be struggling to 'legally' have control over ..

Although i am disappointed by the people who frown upon herb smokers (not so much harder stuff)... the government created this division for us in our society ... it was just one part of a bigger long term scheme ... planned and put into action .. and looking back a decade or two later, from when hemp farming was replaced with cotton farming, the bigger picture of what they were doing seems to reveal itself ... Or at least, reveal that there is a bigger picture ... which may not be wholly clear yet (to me)

It's nearly guaranteed that government at some form is involved and benefiting off the drug war, they seem intentionally oblivious to what the people actually want by and large, most likely because they are being paid to do so.

Yeah .. i was thinking about this yesterday ....

I may not be correct here ... Cant trust my memory ...
But back when cannabis was reclassed to C and decriminalised years ago in UK ... it didnt last long .. and swiftly regained it Illegal Class B Status ..

I don't recall an indepth explanation being given by tptb , with regards to the reasoning behind this decision, and why it was deemed more beneficial to keep it illegal ...
I don't recall the many varying apects of such a decision being addresses publicly, and the impacts on Policing, prisons, criminal records, Black market. to name but just a few relevant aspects ... Although i could be wrong .. I don;t recall it ..

Most other issues ... are debated within the House of Commons here .. or at somne level .. the reasoning behind many decisions are made transparent, and available for the public (albeit, it is only the public 'version' of reasoning behind decisions that is made available to the public) ...

But i just don't recall this decision ever being democratically debated, like so many other decisions .. There were a couple of rants from police, activists, and some MPs ... and that was about it i think ..

I do recall it being mentioned a while later again in the house of commons, when rumours and rants started to surface again ... Whoever was speaking, i dont recall .. I just remember them saying .. (like a once and for all) ... With regards to cannabis .. we are not considering reclassing or changing its status .. it will stay illegal .. and we have no intention of changing this in the foreseeable future ...

Those are not the exacts words ... just the general message as i recall it ...

That tells me .. not only are they not going to give the reasoning behind their decision .... but they point blank refuse to even talk about it any more ...

Never give up against oppression / repression ....

I doubt there will be any change for years to come in the US. The system here is set up to make the most money by seizing assets, fines and to make the police and judges look good by being "Tough on Crime". They are never going to admit that one of their grand schemes was a flop. They've done nothing but fill the prisons and drive the price of drugs through the roof because of the penalties if caught. The revenue generated will be one of the biggest arguments they'll use. "See how much drug money we seized?" They don't catch the major dealers, it's the little guy caught with a joint or a roach in the car ashtray they hold up to the public eye and demonize. I agree some should be illegal. Meth, coc aine, heroin. But the users should be offered help and rehab instead of throwing them in prison for a first offense. I won't even go into the reasons pot should be legal, there are too many and we all know them.

reply to post by Segenam


I hope someone can show me I am wrong - as it would help open the door - but I believe we all live under a global drug policy that no country can totally escape, not without economic and military sanctions. There exist some states or providences, counties, and municipalities that have adopted policies of limited tolerance but nowhere in the world is pot or other scheduled substances legal. For any country to do so would make it a rogue state within the world order, i.e., UN treaties, etc.

If even one lone country were to allow completely open and unrestricted policies regarding cannabis or some other substance as such, this would cause the pricing structure to collapse. None of these popular drugs are difficult to manufacture and some are mere plants that require no special treatments, and as such their value in an open market would be pennies on the dollars that their illicit values demand.

In that open market, what would be the value of backyard pot? The price demanded for a poppy garden? They would be almost worthless, yet a heroin addict could grow his poppies, lance the pods to extract the opium latex, and thereby satisfy his addiction and not be a burden or threat to the security of his neighbors. Yet so strong is the addiction and so high the price for his heroin he steals from his fiends to satisfy his cravings. A poppy garden would be virtually impossible to conceal, and those that are growing in our communities are watched so that no one is cultivating them for their latex. The addict therefore must pay the price demanded for the illicit drug and the truly horrifying aspect of drug addiction continues.

Drug policy is set-up to have its payoff to those who keep it in-place. Drug control policy is not about "stopping drugs" or keeping them out of the hands of the people, but rather it is about controlling their distribution and who is allowed to profit. The Policy is in place to ensure everyone pays the price.

Edit to add: Make it clear that when someone robs or steals to purchase drugs, that otherwise could be grown at home, a greater demand is made for more drug enforcement and stricter policies. Such a cycle just feeds the monster this has evolved into. Non-consumers are willing to relinquish whatever privaces and freedoms they have in hopes of more security, but the reverse of that is what is received for the dear price they pay.

reply to post by DAVID64


Don't be so pessimistic, change is coming, it's just a matter of how quickly it will come. Already there are 14 states which have cannabis decriminalized, but the feds completely ignore the 10th amendment and unconstitutionally raid dispensaries or growers' homes, throwing them into prison for following the state law. State's have the power, not the one central body, but we're living in a backwards country where things don't work according to the constitution. So really things actually have changed, but the federal government is trying to prevent that change by making "statement" arrests when they throw medical cannabis users into prison.

You're completely right though, only a small percentage of politicians are honest and ballsy enough to admit that the War on Drugs is a complete failure, and that there is no reason to keep cannabis illegal. The scientific studies used to back lies were flawed, such as Dr. Robert Heath's study which claimed to have found evidence that smoking cannabis killed brain cells. The study consisted of him suffocating monkeys with the equivalent of 63 joints in 5 minutes, each day for a month. The plastic cover on the monkeys head didn't allow anything to escape, so the brain cells killed by excess carbon monoxide and a lack of oxygen was attributed directly to cannabis.

Many other talking points used by cannabis opponents are based entirely on opinions with no factual basis. For example, there's the misconception that smoking anything kills brain cells, and since cannabis contains as many carcinogens than tobacco and cannabis smokers take bigger hits than tobacco smokers, the lung cancer risk increases dramatically. This flawed logic gets slapped in the face when you realize that there is not a single recorded case of lunger cancer which came from smoking cannabis only. Here's a study which backs that up: "Study Finds No Cancer-Marijuana Connection"

I've made this point dozens of times, but I'll make it again, if the War on Drugs was really put into place to protect the people from harmful substances and keep us safe, alcohol and tobacco would be made illegal in the blink of an eye since they kill 500,000 people annually. Cannabis has been used since 2500BC, and there is not a single recorded death from an overdose. It doesn't kill brain cells like many people think, but alcohol does. It doesn't cause lung cancer like many think, but cigarettes do. It's not even physically addictive, caffeine has withdrawal symptoms which are more severe than cannabis. Smoking cannabis even strengthens the immune system, as seen here: Immune System and also Cannabis Myths. The only true negative consequence that comes from smoking cannabis is short-term memory loss while the user is under the influence, but personally I'd rather have short-term memory loss from smoking some weed than black out and forget my entire night after drinking some beer.

policies do need to be reconsidered before a global epidemic of brain-fried youngsters becomes the norm. with new compounds coming from a certain asian country to the uk, flooding the clubs with plant food and bath salts and their variations, i am wondering how governments keep up with new developments.
i recently listened in on a radio 4 interview regarding a compound coming out of brazil made from the dregs of crack production, battery acid and other dubious industrial materials. it was claimed to be the most addictive drug ever made. oxidado is the name of this substance and from the discussion i listened to, it seems it is taking quite a toll on families and friends of users. users it is claimed turn a shade of yellow, develop liver problems and lose weight rapidly. they usually die within a year. it has hit the suburbs in brazil and it's use is increasing.
we all know kids are going to try different things out and with new compounds available, a dangerous path is trodden. it would be well for the gubbermints of all countries to consider this and possibly adjust their stance on criminalising unfortunate teens caught with a spliff. the alternative is more despair,crime and isolation from society.
op i agree with your view of hemp products. being a not too old sea dog, hemp ropes i once used were quite the biz.
f

Originally posted by TupacShakur

a small percentage of politicians are honest and ballsy enough to admit that the War on Drugs is a complete failure, and that there is no reason to keep cannabis illegal.

I think it depends who's perspective we look from ... From our perspective .. I agree ... That with what we are told the reasoning is behind the 'war on drugs' ... that based on that reasoning, the war is indeed a failure ...

But ... from the perspective of TPTB ... I believe ... the war on drugs has not failed at all .. and is going exactly as planned ... and going by Erongaricuaro's post above ... I suspect he is of the same opinion ....

ETA - I used to be of the naive opinion, that the government was comprised of 'old timers' .. who were too behind the times .. and are soo conditionally stuck in their ways, that they are not mentally capable of considering teh realistic benefits of reclassing cannabis ...

I realise now .. this is not the case (although they dont mind us assuming it to be the case) ... but in fact .. TPTB, are VERY well aware, of all the pros and cons of reclassing it ... i doubt theres anything we could tell them they dont already know on the subject .. and had it all well thought out before i was even born ...

They have all the scientific and sociological studies, reports and conclusions at their disposal, and their own advisors know exactly the ins and outs to 'it all' ... And although from our perspective, they may appear to 'be dumb' or blind to all the facts that are sooo obvious to us ... this is absolutely not the case ...

They know exactly what they are doing ... Things are the way they are, for a higher reason that goes beyond all the scientific reports that could ever be offered ... and it is for that same reason, why they appear to be unwilling to consider all this obvious evidence put forward ...

I suspect, again, what Erongaricuaro states in his post above, is a large part of the reason why they are unwilling to appear to accept all the evidence prsented with regards to their war failing ...

Governments ( World Order), just aint that stupid ... They just happily like to appear stupid or ignorant, as its the better alternative, than having to explain their actual reasoning ... Hmmm .. Wonder if thats why we keep getting stuck with choices of people like gordon brown and george bush ... I dont see how of a population of soo many worthy candidates .. we get stuck with monkeys like that .. (no offence to any monkeys intended) ...

Originally posted by Erongaricuaro

I believe we all live under a global drug policy that no country can totally escape, not without economic and military sanctions. .... For any country to do so would make it a rogue state within the world order, i.e., UN treaties, etc.

Absolutely ... That seems very evident in this wikipedia link of Legality of Cannabis by Country
Under the 'possession' column .. It its clearly not 'legal' (in the absolute literal sense of the word), in any country .. though it is classed as such in some, with certain restrictions ..

If even one lone country were to allow completely open and unrestricted policies regarding cannabis or some other substance as such, this would cause the pricing structure to collapse.

Yeah .. Everything you say makes complete sense ... But TPTB and the Tobacco Giants manage a very lucrative turnover with tobacco ... Whilst they themselves are the criminal pushers .. pushing this extremely addictive substance onto us .. and then pushing 'Nicotine Reduction Therapies' (which is also huge business for Pharma / NHS), to get us back off the Cigs (which in itself has around a 5% success rate long term) ..

Why do you reckon they prefer the set up they have with marijuana (if not drugs in general), as opposed to controlling it, and taxing it to the max, and then profitting further form the 'reverse therapy' gimmicks, like they do with tobacco?

Is it for the 'control' aspect .. ie .. keeping it illegal, to control the masses ? ...
Or is it actually not viable to have the same set up as tobacco for a reason that eludes me ? .. It doesnt tie in with their agenda .. then what is that agenda ... Is it going back to the cotton farms, and pharmas ?

I believe, the Drug Barons, likely have some influence over TPTB, (as do the Tobacco Giants, Oil Giants, Vatican, etc) .. at the very least, if not the case that they are actually the one and the same ...

I cant help but wonder, do governments bow to Drug Barons, in the same way they do to Tobacco giants and Oil Giants etc

And considering the world, that all these criminals live in (including the legal criminal governments and tobacco giants, bankers, etc) ... A very cloak and dagger world in my mind ... Who knows what goes on way up there ... whos threatening who .. who is manipulating who ... and blackmailing who .. framing who ... all for control ..

It could very well be the case The Pharmas are running the country (perhaps not literally running it ... but certainly able to stamp their feet and get their own way ) .. or the Oil Giants .. Tobacco Giants .. or all of them .. There is an interdependency, between the government, and all of them ... they rely on each other very much for the here and now in my opinion ...

I am proud to discuss this issue.

This is the best thread on this crazy war.

I wish people could read the articulate and well thought out replies.

Instead here we are. Hidden from people.

Are we that embarrassing ?

S&F..... Excellent reading.

Avaaz seem to have been effective in some of their other petitions ...
Not sure what kind of impact they can have on the war on drugs tho ...

www.avaaz.org...

Update June 5 2011
We did it!
Last week Avaaz Executive Director Ricken Patel hand-delivered our over half a million signatures to the UN Secretary General Ban Ki Moon, world leaders and the global media in New York.
At the meeting Ban Ki Moon heard our call to action and agreed to create a new UN task force to develop a comprehensive approach to drugs and organized crime.
This is a major step forward towards ending the war on drugs as the approach will include a public health, education and prevention focus. We will continue to push to make sure this senseless and brutal war is ended.
Stay tuned for how together we can keep up the pressure!