Big Honchos Consider Radical Change in Global Drug Policy - It failed, try something different

I did not advocate the use of said product only it should be legalized and regulated to get it out of the hands of the black market and for that I am penalized.

The problem with your post is your choice of words - advocacy of legalization is not allowed in this forum.

That is why we're talking about REGULARIZATION. Get it?

It was their choice of words, the global world-spinners. I'm with you, normalize, regularize, anything without a preset agenda attached. There is an industrial hemp industry that they should just open the door for and let it go.

Perhaps the global decision-makers feel we've come a ways in our outlook and understanding of these substances one hundred years later. The way we looked at medicines around the turn of the 19th to 20th century was quite different than today. The Bayer company had some very curious children's cough syrup in those times.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/7a1521c5cd8a.jpg[/atsimg]

It is just possible we have come a long distance in our understanding. The problems experienced with those substances one hundred years ago would be quite different with them if today's laws were now as before, before the days of busting down doors at the slightest hint of their use. Problems now would be minimized solely by how we regard these substances. Aren't we now at least somewhat smarter by now.

If a few people don't catch-on to proper use they should seek help if needed. Better outpatients than inmates.

This is no shock to me, several presidents have admitted that the War on Drugs is unwinnable, yet we continue to jail people for victimless crimes at taxpayer expense. You can go to jail longer for drug possession than you can for raping or murdering somebody. So according to our legal system we should teach our children that it's better to rape or murder a person than it is to possess a harmless plant or another drug.

IMO, if somebody wants to smoke crack, do heroin, meth, PCP, etc., then they should be allowed to. It's their decision, if they want to screw up their life and become physically addicted to a drug rather than go to college or pursue a career, that's their choice to make, not our governments. I don't think it's fair that the government can say what we can and cannot put into our bodies, even if it's harmful. Rather than using taxpayer money to jail victimless criminals, we should spent a small fraction of that money on drug awareness programs that warn us of the dangers of those drugs. I'm not talking about a biased, lie factory like D.A.R.E, I mean a legitimate, honest program that uses facts from scientific studies and research to make the public aware of the dangers of drugs. That way, people fully know what to expect when they smoke crack or shoot up some heroin, so that's their own fault for going down that path. Commercials, a required class in high school (Again, not a lie factory like health class, teaching Reefer Madness era lies to kids), and billboards with straight to the point statistics and facts are just a few ideas.

We all know what the simple solution is, however discussion of that topic is not allowed on this site for some odd reason. Deny ignorance

Originally posted by Erongaricuaro
Everyone, even him, realizes cannabis is relatively benign.

Relatively? LOL! Like COMPLETELY benign. And not JUST benign - beneficial, as hemp, as medicine.

Glad the "honchos" are speaking reason.

Originally posted by TupacShakur
I don't think it's fair that the government can say what we can and cannot put into our bodies, even if it's harmful.

Ironically... They let Aspartame (originally a rat poison!) and now Neotame (even worse - as it's so concentrated it can be put into food and not labeled!) - which make lots of money for Monsanto and are HARMFUL, in Our diets.

A bit of doublethink on THAT score, eh?

reply to post by Erongaricuaro


Nice to see you around again, Erongaricuaro.

I am sure this meeting has more to do about how much and what they can best tax, then go from there. Although, any tax is better than handcuffs. Unfortunately, at one point I was in that situation myself.

I am hoping if this goes through my past will be digitally wiped? Hopefully. I can't say I will be holding my breath though. While we are on the subject are you familiar with Silk Road?

Regards,

Maybe someone should ask why there are like a hundred different threads on HAARP all going on at the same time when there is only one HAARP facility and no one really believes there is anything of interest going in it and yet a topic like the war on drugs, legal and illegal, drugs in our face from morning until night, in one form or another, an ongoing problem that succeeds in killing people on a daily basis due to their simple IGNORANCE... is somehow given only one thread?

Some might say the legal drug trade is insidiously and secretly conspiring to kill us all, or at least get us all addicted to some pharmaceutical or another and so I wonder why it isn't investigated?
Or better put...why isn't it allowed to be discussed or investigated?

Why the editing, the paring down and the silence on such a serious and significant topic that affects us all, or our parents (mother takes 17 different medications!) or someone we know every day?

Why did I just come from 2 threads that were both closed and all the responses to the topic of "The War on Drugs were funneled here? That is sort of odd. Seems like the war on drugs isn't at all like the "war on terror."
Always interesting and never ending.

Originally posted by newcovenant
Maybe someone should ask why there are like a hundred different threads on HAARP all going on at the same time when there is only one HAARP facility and no one really believes there is anything of interest going in it and yet a topic like the war on drugs, legal and illegal, drugs in our face from morning until night, in one form or another, an ongoing problem that succeeds in killing people on a daily basis due to their simple IGNORANCE... is somehow given only one thread?

Because it's really hard to keep a thread up on the subject? Someone starts in with personal use stuff and that's the end of it. Also... There are quite a few threads in the Alt Sub forum (that forum with no name on the forums home page). They don't show up on anything. You have to go there to see what is there - and You have to have 200 posts to get in.

reply to post by Amaterasu

Someone starts in with personal use stuff and that's the end of it.

Good point. I kind of noticed that and was afraid that might have been the case.
Appreciate you taking the trouble to respond.

reply to post by Amaterasu

Someone starts in with personal use stuff and that's the end of it.

The biggest problem is that you get all these clowns coming into the threads who think its ok to express their opinion as to what they think the laws should be. The nerve of some people..

reply to post by newcovenant

Or better put...why isn't it allowed to be discussed or investigated?

Be careful asking those sorts of questions here. Members who attempt to answer them for you may have their "entirely off topic" posts removed and risk being banned. The majority of ATS members simply wouldn't be able to handle the truth, so censorship is a must.

reply to post by TupacShakur

Rather than using taxpayer money to jail victimless criminals, we should spent a small fraction of that money on drug awareness programs that warn us of the dangers of those drugs. I'm not talking about a biased, lie factory like D.A.R.E, I mean a legitimate, honest program that uses facts from scientific studies and research to make the public aware of the dangers of drugs. That way, people fully know what to expect when they smoke crack or shoot up some heroin, so that's their own fault for going down that path.

This is a good idea. IMO some big damage caused by the war on drugs is that a lot of people don't have access to trustworthy information to help them make intelligent decisions. If they are told that crack and heroin are dangerous by the same source that tells them cannabis is dangerous then there is a good chance that they will think it is all lies.

Originally posted by newcovenant
Maybe someone should ask why there are like a hundred different threads on HAARP all going on at the same time when there is only one HAARP facility and no one really believes there is anything of interest going in it and yet a topic like the war on drugs, legal and illegal, drugs in our face from morning until night, in one form or another, an ongoing problem that succeeds in killing people on a daily basis due to their simple IGNORANCE... is somehow given only one thread?

Some might say the legal drug trade is insidiously and secretly conspiring to kill us all, or at least get us all addicted to some pharmaceutical or another and so I wonder why it isn't investigated?
Or better put...why isn't it allowed to be discussed or investigated?

Why the editing, the paring down and the silence on such a serious and significant topic that affects us all, or our parents (mother takes 17 different medications!) or someone we know every day?

Why did I just come from 2 threads that were both closed and all the responses to the topic of "The War on Drugs were funneled here? That is sort of odd. Seems like the war on drugs isn't at all like the "war on terror."
Always interesting and never ending.

edit on 3-6-2011 by newcovenant because: (no reason given)

this should be it's own thread, where others can read. not hidden here in this thread

Originally posted by Amaterasu

Originally posted by Erongaricuaro
Everyone, even him, realizes cannabis is relatively benign.

Relatively? LOL! Like COMPLETELY benign. And not JUST benign - beneficial, as hemp, as medicine.

Glad the "honchos" are speaking reason.

Sorry. my net has been down over 20 hours and just got back up, better than ever I hope.

Being on the "pro" side of this movement for nearly 45 years I would like to go with the best answers possible regarding this "substance" but in all honesty relatively is the best my own conscience will permit me to say. Although it has less toxicity than a carrot or other common foods it does have its mild psychoactive effect that is not agreeable to everyone, nor are carrots agreeable to everyone. I do fully agree that it is beneficial, at least myself and millions find it so.

I am glad the big wigs are talking about this now, and favorably. Too long it has been a forbidden topic and not even allowed to be discussed, just a closed matter. I feel the US shot itself in the foot and has lost much of its clout. Developing nations are catching up while the US is sliding backwards and may find itself non-existent as the entity it once was. That would be the only way they could default on their federal pensions and Social Security and just say, too bad. That would be the down-side, especially for me. The good side is that the US is too lame to be dictating global policy and will just have to settle for being an influential voice. They no longer reign as supreme world dictator as before.

Reply to Dance4Life - Howdy, long time. I sincerely hope they will find it well to expunge records of persons caught in their insidious web at some time during the madness. If not totally wiped clean, as they will likely want to regard us as scofflaws, then my hopes are that other persons to whom such records matter it will matter little or not at all. I feel this madness coming to the end of its days and can see light at the end of this long tunnel.

Originally posted by newcovenant
Maybe someone should ask why there are like a hundred different threads on HAARP all going on at the same time when there is only one HAARP facility and no one really believes there is anything of interest going in it and yet a topic like the war on drugs, legal and illegal, drugs in our face from morning until night, in one form or another, an ongoing problem that succeeds in killing people on a daily basis due to their simple IGNORANCE... is somehow given only one thread?

This thread and the others you speak of are all on a single topic which concerns the global conference where the movers and shakers were finally able to bring up the topic and question the value of having a global drug policy. It is really an earth-shaking event. the mods were kept busy as this story broke wednesday night. The original MSM articl's headline had all the offending words in it and the original author's OP was 404'd almost immediately.

My timing was more fortunate and the original thread was able to endure in BAN for nearly an hour and had over 30 flags - it was attracting too much attention so was moved to the back-burner in this forum. It had too much traction and was gaining so was 404'd after 45 minutes in Alt Subs. I started this thread, and without the offending words - which by BAN rules I was forced to use originally. The other threads came along the next day some 10 hours after this one and originated in BAN where I was very pleased to see they each got some time on the front page with such an important issue before being moved.

The world is beginning to change with this news that the policy makers are now poised to make a new policy. After this topic getting time on ATS front page and later removed I am nt unhappy to see the rest of this discussion was moved here. I am sad to note that a lot of good wisdom was tossed into the trash bin, however. Fortunately I found I had a window open that preserved the first page of the original thread and have cut and pasted that with the appropriate attributions in a word pad file, perhaps there will be an appropriate time to bring those original posts back into this discussion.

Unfortunately my internet was down almost a full day - I wondered what that black helicopter was doing flying overhead - and I am trying to catch up with any latest news and responding back to others now. This is big news and I am expecting the violence to go away soon and things in the world to normalize and regularize after this. It is possible now.

OK, here it is! www.globalcommissionondrugs.org...

This is the 24-page from the Global Commision on Drugs Report that those black helicopters didn't want me reading. Glad I have the internet back and have some time to make up reading this now. Should be good. Let's get your comments. I will have some of mine by tomorrow.

Edit to add: I have also started another thread for the express purpose of discussing this report. I believe some of the comments might be more appropriate for here in this thread, however, so for now there is a choice for where to make your comments. The report is interesting and starts out:

Executive summary

The last three decades have witnessed a global increase in the criminalization of improper drug
use. Criminalization has resulted in increased use of harsh punitive sanctions imposed on drug
offenders and dramatic increases in rates of incarceration. These policies have had limited
impact on eliminating or reducing illegal drug use and may have resulted in adverse
consequences for social and community health. The criminal justice system has proved to be
an ineffective forum for managing or controlling many aspects of the drug trade or the problem
of illegal drug usage. In recent years, some progress has been reported when governing
bodies have managed drug use and addiction as a public health problem which requires
treatment, counseling and medical interventions rather than incarceration.

Primarily as a result of drug policy, the number of people currently incarcerated worldwide is at
an all time high of ten million.

In the United States, the prison population has increased from 300,000 in 1972 to 2.3 million
people today. One in 31 adults in the United States is in jail, prison, on probation or parole.
The American government currently spends over 68 billion dollars a year on incarceration.

Happy reading! -Eron

Originally posted by Azp420
reply to post by Amaterasu

 

Someone starts in with personal use stuff and that's the end of it.

The biggest problem is that you get all these clowns coming into the threads who think its ok to express their opinion as to what they think the laws should be. The nerve of some people..

Really! Discussing what Each thinks is MIGHTY nervy!

reply to post by Erongaricuaro


I skimmed through the .pdf

I guess I would have to agree with everything - as everything is factual, IMO at least.

Let's remember the .gov policy about the truth though. Anyone remember what they did to demonize MDMA? The fake brain hole scans - etc. If they cannot manipulate the truth they will find a way to tuck it away in a corner.

I am hoping this takes traction.

Originally posted by Erongaricuaro

Originally posted by Amaterasu

Originally posted by Erongaricuaro
Everyone, even him, realizes cannabis is relatively benign.

Relatively? LOL! Like COMPLETELY benign. And not JUST benign - beneficial, as hemp, as medicine.

Glad the "honchos" are speaking reason.

Sorry. my net has been down over 20 hours and just got back up, better than ever I hope.

Being on the "pro" side of this movement for nearly 45 years I would like to go with the best answers possible regarding this "substance" but in all honesty relatively is the best my own conscience will permit me to say. Although it has less toxicity than a carrot or other common foods it does have its mild psychoactive effect that is not agreeable to everyone, nor are carrots agreeable to everyone. I do fully agree that it is beneficial, at least myself and millions find it so.

Well... If One says that finding ANY who dislike the effects brings it into the "relatively" category, then You're right. [smile] I still say that, for all intents and purposes, it is totally benign.

Originally posted by Erongaricuaro
I am sad to note that a lot of good wisdom was tossed into the trash bin, however. Fortunately I found I had a window open that preserved the first page of the original thread and have cut and pasted that with the appropriate attributions in a word pad file, perhaps there will be an appropriate time to bring those original posts back into this discussion.

Aahhh man ... that's excellent ... i felt that also ...
That after we all posted in the other thread(s) .. it would be silly to come in and repeat our exact same posts in here after the other threads were closed, and left to fade away .. and that some excellent, well thought out articulated points were lost .. (generally speaking)

Very constructive rational thoughts ... on a topic/situation, you obviously feel passionate enough about, to take well thought out constructive actions ...

Please keep it up ... and to all like you .. we can never be heard if we dont keep speaking / shouting

Actually .. this thread appears to be losing momentum ... As they all do i suppose ...
But in a feeble attempt to keep the thread alive ... i think i will just go ahead , and repost my post from closed thread ...


Also ... according to a documentary i watched ... One of the main reasons marijuana was given its illegal status, and purposely yet incorrectly portrayed as being a drug that drives peoples crazy, murdering their partners and what not, was to control the hemp production / farming, which was a very lucrative business at a time, as anyone in the know, knows ..
The plan was, apparently, to drive hemp, and its many uses, for its very long lasting fibres, biofuel, etc .. the list goes on .. out of production ... to be replaced .. with .. Cotton !! Which doesnt last so long, requires pesticides (huge market in the pesticides for cotton farming alone, and are apparently responsible for ruining soil, pouring into streams, killing wildlife) ... And also pave the way for synthetic fabric .. and of course pharmaceutical companies have also apparently cashed in on the control of marijuana big time ... by controlling that to a minimum, and as well as making a tidy profit off that, and depriving the many of the benefits .. they get to push their man made chemical drugs at grossly over inflated prices ...

Just one, of the many aspects of controlling drugs ... none of which i think have anything to do with protecting the public...

And i am disgusted, that by being born in the land i am (apparently without choice), that i am automatically subject to a law, that allows the police to enter my house if they suspect i am smoking a certain type of cigarette ... confiscate my stuff ... arrest and charge me .. and send me to court ...

How dare they tell me i, a 38 year old adult of sound mind, who would never harm anyone, or do anything that i deem wrong to anyone .. that I am not allowed to do this harmless activity in my own home ... Its disgusting i am not allowed to make this choice for myself .. and can go to jail for choosing to puff my cigarette.