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reply to post by kro32


I think it takes balls for a guy to start a thread like this. I hope i didnt set the tone for attacks by my question. I dont want people to jump on this thread and start questioning what makes him an expert. I asked a question and he answered it sincerely and to the best of his ability. The guy has enlisted and if he has knowledge to share I think he should be given a chance.....and support.

Originally posted by kro32
reply to post by projectvxn

 

I thought I did ask about your experience.

Oh well

Many of my experiences in combat have wound up in courts. And while I have never been charged with anything, nor do I have a criminal record, I would prefer not to discuss these issues as I am not proud of them and have no bearing on what this forum is about.

If you must know where I have received my practical knowledge, I spend 14 years in Chu'an Fa and six in Wing Chun. I have participated in ritual, street, and sport combat. My firearms experience stems from years of research and practical application of various weapons systems and history. Same goes for tactical application. I am also a very damned good hunter and very knowledgeable survivalist.

I am soon to be a soldier in the US Army and I will be specializing in helicopter mechanics. I am in the process of learning and understanding machining for the purposes of gunsmithing. I am no slouch in the area of weapons and tactics and it is why I am here.

Out of all the assault rifles I have used I have to say I really love the Arsenal AK-74. The accuracy is great way better than your standard AK. The Ammo and magazines are very cheap and plentiful. Its an AK so reliability is not an issue. I will say that if you are going to buy and shoot the corrosive surplus ammo a chrome lined muzzle break is really nice to have. I stripped mine down and replaced the Arsenal trigger ( which is horribly heavy ) with a g3 trigger group that I polished. I would recommend changing out the standard springs with some really nice after market American like (Falcon Arms) made springs. If you do this a retainer plate is a must have it makes assembly and disassembly so much easier than the wire one. Just a few modifications and you can make a great rifle superb. You can get a night site set for 6-10$ now they are not Tritium so you have to hit them with a flash lite to get them to glow, but as a poor mans alternative they do work. The Russian Arsenal Ak's are really in a class by them selves They are one of the more accurate AK's I have shot, I would say they are fairly close to the Polytech Legends in accuracy.The recoil is so light my 7 year old daughter can shoot it with no problem, making acquiring target after target extremely quick and efficient with very little time between shots. Round penetration with steel core rounds is actually better than the SS-109's.The round out preforms 5.56 in penetration and comes close to that of the 7.62 x 39.

Just because a guy has eaten some dirt and fired some wild assed misses in what he thinks is the enemy's direction does not make him a marksman, a gun advisor, or a survivalist, you know. I've seen a great many cops and troops who could not hit jack squat with rifle or pistol, fast enough to do them any good, that is.

reply to post by ragnarcrypt

SS-109's

So you know the SS-109 IS a 5.56mm steel core round. It's otherwise known a the XM855 Penetrator. SS-109 is the NATO designation whereas XM855 is the designation given by the Pentagon.


Edit...I may have misunderstood what you were trying to get across. Pardon me if this is the case.

When I look at fire arms and ammo I look at each as a tool used for a purpose. The purposes may vary and the situations. I always ask that question first then find out which tool is best for that job. I have shot and compared several different Hollow points for my 9mm and one thing I found when I chronograph factory ammo (that was very disappointing was) that every major brand of hollow point and ball ammo was any where from 100 to 250fps slower than advertised. I must assume its a safety thing or my testing was different, I used 3 different crono's, for it to make sure one was not off. The numbers were so similar over several tries (all from the same pistol ) full size glock non ported barrel, so i know the crono's were accurate with each other. The one Hollow point that was consistent with the manufacturer stated muzzle velocity's was the El Dorado Star Fire's. They are SCARY BAD, I have seen the devastation left by these rounds and it is impressive. I lived out in the country for years and I have shot a lot of nuisance animals. The hydro shocks are ok , and so are the golden sabers, the black talons were fairly nasty but the most consistently impressive have been the El Dorado Star Fires hands down. Dont get me wrong those are all very acceptable rounds but the star fire have been superb. One thing I recommend is to use the 115 grain hollow points and 115 grain ball in the same mag, so it goes like this, the one in the chamber is hollow point and the next round as well, the 3rd will then be a full metal jacket and then a hollow point then a full metal jacket. I stager them just in case you need to go through a harder target like dry wall or car door or who knows what, thats just me though. I hate the 147gr hp rounds. I find that the velocity tends to be low enough that there explosive expansion sucks and they dont preform well. The ones I crono'ed were barely making 800fps muzzle velocity so that does not help. I hope this helps,

reply to post by ragnarcrypt


FPS calculations are also done in controlled laboratories. These conditions were probably far different than the condition under which you tested the ammunition.

Remember that distance, barometric pressure, wind speed(no matter how minute), and even temperature affect the speed and accuracy of a round from the second it's fired.

On the note of Star fire rounds...They do seem to cause a lot of damage to the target. But I would recommend using them for small revolvers like .38 special as they amplify the destructive force and energy transfer of the round making it far more effective as a man stopper than would otherwise be the case.

For larger rounds(9mm and above) I recommend either JHP or the GS rounds as they do the same in proportion to what the round is intended to do. Staggering rounds is a good idea if you're in a situation that calls for it. However, unless you're expecting some kind of prolonged firefight I wouldn't bother. I would just stick to one type of ammo and hope you never have to use it.

I guess it all depends on how big of a mess you want to make.

No problem, I was trying to keep every thing simple and in terms most people would be familiar with regardless of their technical terminology. some people really dont know the difference between vary many round designations and I feel simple is better if they want to learn the exact round designation and who gave it thats great. I just did not want to bore myself or others with information that I did not see a good use for in the general sense and in this setting. I was actually trying to say that the 5,45 x 39.5 out penetrates the ss109 and the standard lead core rounds military or non military. Although it is technically unfair to take a steel core AK round and compare it to the standard lead core rounds for the AR. Most people I know are more familiar with the ss109 as the steel core penetrator and I chose to use that for that reason and simplicity. I can only explain so much her and bottom line no matter how correct any ones information is if you do not go practice it and really learn it, that information is not that useful. You can read a book and figure out how to shoot but that does not mean you can shoot well lol no matter how many books on the topic you read. It still takes practice , control, and muscle development and for most people that takes time. A lot of people that over looked the AK74's have come back to them and were really impressed with them when they did. I know I was, I love shooting mine its actually become one of my favorite rifles to shoot. The other thing is I just want to help I have spent a lot of time with both the AR Platform and the AK;s I like things about both but those AK's are just simple reliable and effective. The real trick is to learn about both of them and see what one you like the best and feel most comfortable with, not what I am comfortable with and prefer to have. Learn to work with both systems and then decide for your self. Ultimately always double and triple check what you read, and hear.

reply to post by ragnarcrypt


Well this is, first and foremost, an education forum.

So please do feel free to educate as you participate.

I was not really happy with the performance of some of the ammo I had tried, I wanted to see how the ammo preformed where a I live and shoot. I wanted to see what it was like in a more real life setting not in the lab. I played with the distances from the Crono's and used more than one crono to check the results. The thing I did notice was that the El Dorado Star Fires were consistent with the manufacturers muzzle velocity no others were. The temps, humidity, and pressure of the day did not change much, and we tried this a couple different times with almost identical results so for for my area here it still gives me a realistic result for my needs. As far as performance there can be a big difference because of design materials and velocity. For comparison a standard 38 special could be loaded with the exact same bullet type as a 357 mag and you are going to get better performance because of the extra velocity. thats why I pointed out the difference I seen on the Crono's it may only be a couple hundred fps and kind of small but that can be the difference between subsonic or not. That little difference in consistency, quality and the design help in my opinion make the Star Fifes one of the best hollow point rounds I have ever used. They are just freakn nasty. i have seen some really nasty effects that just blew my mind. As always I ask that people dont just take some one elses word go check it out for yourself that way you really know for sure.

I don't see why everyone is attacking the OP.

It does not take combat experience to advise on weapons systems - most gunsmiths have not had combat experience.

Tactics is another matter tho - the practical application of book smarts to an urban combat environment does not make a warrior.

But that's why this is a "forum", so others can contribute to the discussion.

Mass Ayoob has never seen combat. Neither has John Farnum,. did you know that? Elmer Keith never so much as pointed a gun at anybody. The only person Bill Jordan shot as a cop was his own partner. Almost no gun writers, since the Korean war era, have experienced combat. They just get a lot of people to lie for them about such things, based on ASSUMPTIONS. Chuck Taylor was fired as editor of SWAT magazine cause he got caught LYING about wearing rifle rated armor while being shot with a 308 rifle. The Black Talons have too low velocity, too stiff jackets to expand in flesh.

reply to post by ExCommando


Well this is a discussion forum. Not a forum of who's killed the most people and what/how they used their weapons and tactics. It's an academic forum for framing real world experience in a theoretical sense.

I don't mind the "attacks" and I don't quite perceive them as such. People want to know that their resident "expert" has at least some experience in the field.

While I have not been to combat I do have a lot of experience with a wide variety of weapons systems. I'm also very well read on the subject.

Guns and the study of tactics is kinda my thing. But anyone who takes the term EXPERT on Above Top Secret.com seriously, no matter how knowledgeable an FSME may be, should probably be asking themselves why they put so much stock into it.

reply to post by projectvxn


You know what, I see you trying to get to the point... really I do.. however.. the rules you are obliviously bound by are almost stinking your point out.

Originally posted by traqer
reply to post by projectvxn

 

You know what, I see you trying to get to the point... really I do.. however.. the rules you are obliviously bound by are almost stinking your point out.

VXN is currently in Army Basic Training...He'll be back shortly.

ETA: Welcome to the forum!

reply to post by EyesWideShut


I'm back actually. I'm in army aviation maintenance school right now.

And I'm not sure what the poster is trying to get at. W & P isn't a political forum and the T & C apply. I'm not sure whats so difficult about this to some.

reply to post by projectvxn



Oh, $&@!.. I didn't know you were back bro, congrats Soldier! As far as the thread is concerned, I think it mostly comes down to ego ...and the fact that you can't fix stupid. You trackin'? lol

Okay I have a serious question here...

How in the heck is this guy a FSME on weaponry...?

I have like 78254384529091241 times the experience of this guy firing...

MLRS
Paladin
Crusaders
Tot Weapons
M-4 (hold the magazine with your left hand tuck both elbows, gangsters grips are for sissies)
The list goes on and on.

I have fought in an actual war, against actual troops (Repub Guard).
I participated in "Thunder Runs".
I have conducted tests with DARPA, see HIMARS among other things (Still under NDA and following all SCGs).

This guy is a 15 series MOS as admitted by his Aviation Maintenance school reference.

15 series MOSs

Sorry projectvxn not taking anything away from your service, I applaud you.

However that said, how are you an FSME on weaponry?

You even know this now that your in.

ETA: I'm not an expert either, nor do I want to be a FSME, but come on Mods and OP.

reply to post by projectvxn


Someone wanna answer my above post?

OP?

Mods?

Anyone?

:crickets: