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Originally posted by MindWarrior
You may not notice consciously but that may be the point. The subconscious notices all. If "All good teenagers, take off your clothes!" is really said at such a soft volume then it's obviously meant for the subconscious. Has anyone here actually tried listening themselves to see if it's really said?
Look how much sex stuff they blatantly put on the Disney Channel...
The question becomes "why?". What is there to gain? Is the driving factor financial profit or something more sinister?
I don't see a lot of "sex" on the Disney channel.
IMHO the amount of information taken in on a subconsious level is highly overrated.
Originally posted by MindWarrior
I might argue that it is highly underrated...
To clarify what I mean when I say I think the effect of subliminal communication is highly overrated. Subliminal is something your consious does not perceive.
I'm a creative working in advertising, so I do have some practical insight in this. There are ways however, to push people in a certain direction. This is mainly done through the use of knowledge about the consumer being addressed and educated "guessing" about what he/she likes or don't like, his/her habits, whether he/she is a follower/leader etc, etc. I guess this could be mistaken as subliminal, but it is in fact quite the opposite. Though the result of this may not look or feel like regular advertising, this kind of communication fits in the high-perception area.
Originally posted by LadyV
This is very, very old news...apparently someone that edits many of these films finds humor in hiding little, out of the way parts in Disney movies....I have one of the original Lion King Videos where the clouds spell out "sex"
Originally posted by LadyV
and I don't think children "catch" it....look at all the innuendo meant for adults in current kid movies like Shriek...we get ir but the kids don't.
"What really interests me is whether God had any choice in the creation of the world." --Albert Einstein
Originally posted by MindWarrior
"Every television show we've ever seen is stored in our sub- and superconscious minds, every book we've read, every detail of every sexual encounter, major life change, and every imagining that we, as humans, have been inspired to have. It is, by way of comparison, an infinite hard drive for the brain, while the normal conscious mind is merely the disk cache. The entirety of our childhoods are stored in perfect detail there, as well as whatever knowledge we, as humans, possess of our past lives, if such things exist. The problem with these two types of consciousnesses is that beyond normal consciousness, anything deeper is vastly difficult to retrieve. This is why our dreams are often so odd -- they're mostly made up of random renmants of sub- and superconscious memories, or distortions thereof."
Not many people who work in advertising fully realize the mechanisms behind their tactics. They know that it works, plain and simple.
Consider this; one Sunday issue of the New York Times contains more information than the normal person in the 19th Century was exposed to in a lifetime.
Advertisers can't afford to overestimate people's level of interest in what is communicated
subliminal information has been proven rather useless as a way of communicating
Originally posted by MindWarrior
That can be disputed too. The "information" contained in mainstream media is better defined as propaganda and your analogy is just a bit exaggerated.
Which is why we see the sleazy tactics of quick-flashing imagery, combined with high-dB 'un-natural" sound, delivered at key points. Like in the middle of an important at-bat in a baseball game or right after a dramatic moment in a televised program (like Top Gun, right after informing "Maverick" and "Goose" that "Now you're number one!-then, immediate spam-).
In many ways, television advertisements are a form of rape... forceful, unwanted, and "evil."
When, and by whom?
In what way is my analogy exaggerated?
95% of the advertising out there are bad ideas that are poorly executed not taking the target audience into consideration
I notice some hostility on your part towards advertising in general. If you want a discussion on that subject, I'd suggest you start a new thread and bark up another tree. This discussion is about the effetiveness/non-effectiveness in subliminal communication.
Read about how the advertising industry looks upon hidden-message ads as fiction.
Originally posted by MindWarrior
Mainstream media does not provide information relating to true current events. And "information" does not include advertisements and since ~50% of all media (newspaper, tv, radio) is advertisements, that must be taken into account.
Guess you haven't seen the article New York Times Reporter A Government Informant "David Cay Johnston, a celebrated New York Times reporter, reveals in his recent book, Perfectly Legal, his history of acting as a government informant".
That's the problem, creators of spam (advertisements) "target" people. Much like one would with a rifle. Only the target is psychological, not physical.
"The "discussion" is defined as what was discussed and, as it has been discussed, it is now part of the discussion. It's you who said "I'm a creative working in advertising"... bringing up the generalized topic in the first place."
By the way, you can't be a creative, you can only be creative.
As marketing departments are typically filled with ignorant, alcoholic, 20-something-year-olds led by a old bald white guys, well.. it's pretty easy to see how advertising has become what it is.
Stripping away all the BS, however once wishes to describe it, advertisements work by grabbing your focus and manipulating it. Anything located outside your focus is targetting your subconscious mind. No corporation should have the right to put "cookies" in your head. No amount of corporate propaganda can change what they are doing.
Back to the thread subject, if "All teens take off your clothes" is whispered in a disney movie, how would you classify it, if not targeting the subconscious?
Originally posted by Durden
You may not like it, but "sale on grapes" is actually information - information with a purpose to sell, but information nevertheless. I never stated I was only talking about "information relating to true current events".
Thanks for the link, but being deceptive and having a hidden agenda is hardly the same thing as using subliminal communication.
You keep wanting to shift this discussion and make it about pros and cons about advertising in general. I'm going to keep saying; start another thread on that subject. Make an effort and focus on subliminal communication.
You really need to provide a credible source to back up these, IMO ridiculously ignorant and exaggerated claims.
I repeat; make an effort to keep this somewhat close to the topic of this thread. You've already made your personal dislike of advertising quite clear.
What I questioned was the effectiveness of using this as a form of communication.
Originally posted by SpittinCobra
Originally posted by Gazrok
Want some more?
In THE LION KING, when Simba plops down after speaking with his pop, the dust kicks up and spells out the word "SEX" real quick, hehe...
In ALLADIN, right before they get on the carpet, for the song "A Whole New World", if you turn up the volume ALL the way, you'll hear, quite plainly, a voice sounding like Robert Williams, saying "All good teenagers, take off your clothes!" as plain as day....
I've personally SEEN these (and heard, hehe...)
Dont make me watch these movies. I will do it now! LOL
I wonder if its the writers get so bored, they just start playing around.
Are your kids so loud, that you have to turn the TV all the way up?
[edit on 5-8-2004 by SpittinCobra]
Originally posted by MindWarrior
Would you argue that there is more information relevant to one's life, in one issue of the NYT, compared to all the information taken in for an entire life in the 17th (or 19th) century?
The point was in regards to relevant information to one's life. If the NYT is a propaganda mouthpiece then it says something about the quality of the information. As the saying goes; It's quality not quantity. And as NYT was the paper you referenced...
You seem to want to avoid dealing with the truth of advertising... feel free to start a thread if you wish, however, it is not poster's desire.
As you can have your opinion, so may everyone else. It is simply called as it is seen. If you can find a study charting the drinking habits, ages, and IQs of the average person in the marketing industry, feel free to provide a link to it. As it is unlikely such a study has been done, well, there we are.. and how would you define credible? Something that would be printed in a scientific journal? Something that a majority of people agree with?
If your going to make assertions, they are going to be replied to. If you want to re-reply, feel free, but please, no more complaining about the use of the word "advertising".
Your posts contains little but your personal opinion of subliminal advertising techniques as being ineffective. When you do argue the ineffectiveness of subliminal communication - you merely present your opinion on the subject, with no credible scientific evidence backing it up.
Honestly, 30 year old studies on popcorn?
Some people need to be told what to believe. Some believe what their senses tell them. Those of "us" who use our senses, are to some degree, doing our own scientific studies.
Originally posted by Durden
Are you even trying to make a sensible argument and stick to the topic at hand? You're coming off rather silly at this point.
Oh, are we suddenly talking about the quality of the information now?
So now this thread is about the truth of advertising? You really need to make up your mind here
If you make ridiculous claims, you shouldn't be surprised if you're called on them.
Please show me where I complained about the use of the word "advertising".
What I have done is tried to stick to the topic of subliminal communication despite your efforts not to do so.
Do you need images to comprehend?
Maybe a trip to the library would be a good idea?
Familiar with the term pseudoscience?
Get back on the horse my friend and do your homework
Btw, Jim Hagart (founder of subliminalworld.org) who you seem to like quoting, also once claimed that apocryphal Satanic messages inserted in Judas Priest records* by back-masking, made these records highly dangerous to listen t
Here is a link to the actual court case where the band was found not guilty because the scientific evidence presented at the trial was overwhelmingly convincing that