A Message, Part I

Originally posted by seeashrink
...I can promise you that one day you will see Him as He is and your knees will bow and your tongue confess that He is God...

No matter how "hard" you believe something doesn't make it true. Your promise is based on hearsay.

I am quite comfortable saying that I believe in God (not the bible monster one), but have no proof of God. Why aren't you? You have no more proof than I do.

Why not just spend your time loving and helping others? Isn't that somewhere in your book?

reply to post by TILTed

The quote that you used is not mine but God's. I used it as warning not to condemn. Again, they are not my words. If you read the OP there is much in it about the love of God. I am no one's judge. It is true that actions speak louder than words and I am guilty of not doing enough. I do some good works and I do love all, however I thank God that His salvation is by grace and not by works. Grace is simply unmerited favor from God. There is nothing any of us can do to win God's favor.
Remember, God says that the heavens and the earth will pass away, but My Word will never pass away.
Seeashrink

Originally posted by seeashrink
The quote that you used is not mine but God's....

You have been led to believe that they are the words of God. Why is this so hard to come to grips with?

The Mormon KNOWS that the Book of Mormon IS TRUE - and he knows you are not going to heaven if you are not Mormon.

The Catholic KNOWS that the catholic church IS TRUE and the POPE is the word of God on earth, and he knows you are going to hell if you are not catholic.

The Muslim KNOWS the words of Muhammed ARE TRUE.

etc etc.

So - which version of "god's word" is it that you KNOW to be TRUE?

This thread has already, beginning with the second post, gone way off course.
I would encourage any Christians posting on this thread to not get caught up in the debate of the existance of God. We do not need to debate the God of creation. I would encourage you to show love to those that belittle us or persecute us with words. Show the heart of Christ, not one of contempt.
Seeashrink

Originally posted by seeashrink
This thread has already, beginning with the second post, gone way off course.
I would encourage any Christians posting on this thread to not get caught up in the debate of the existance of God. We do not need to debate the God of creation. I would encourage you to show love to those that belittle us or persecute us with words. Show the heart of Christ, not one of contempt.
Seeashrink

BAM! Non-answer.

Yes. Believers are instructed to ignore the hateful questioning of the "non-believer". Learning about your religion will never benefit your religion, so STOP NOW. Just send in your tithe, and go about your business, knowing that you are not required to think - just believe everything they tell you and IF YOU ARE SERIOUS ENOUGH, you may be saved.

reply to post by TILTed


No, not "led to believe" the Word of God to be true, but I have tasted, experienced, and have relationship with God through His Word. The Muslims, Catholics, and Mormons are all false religions, man made. The Bible and RELATIONSHIP with God, not religion, is the one and only true path.
Seeashrink

Originally posted by seeashrink
No, not "led to believe" the Word of God to be true, but I have tasted, experienced, and have relationship with God through His Word. The Muslims, Catholics, and Mormons are all false religions, man made. The Bible and RELATIONSHIP with God, not religion, is the one and only true path.
Seeashrink

WHAT does god taste like?

Glad you cleared up that Mormon, Catholic, Islam thing for me. And them too!

Originally posted by TILTed

Originally posted by seeashrink
This thread has already, beginning with the second post, gone way off course.
I would encourage any Christians posting on this thread to not get caught up in the debate of the existance of God. We do not need to debate the God of creation. I would encourage you to show love to those that belittle us or persecute us with words. Show the heart of Christ, not one of contempt.
Seeashrink

BAM! Non-answer.

Yes. Believers are instructed to ignore the hateful questioning of the "non-believer". Learning about your religion will never benefit your religion, so STOP NOW. Just send in your tithe, and go about your business, knowing that you are not required to think - just believe everything they tell you and IF YOU ARE SERIOUS ENOUGH, you may be saved.

This was not meant to be an answer to anything, but a suggestion to believers. We are told to bless those that curse us, when reviled to revile not again. I am not religious and have no religion. I do pay tithes where I worship to support the ministry there. Refusing to debate, but to show love instead and to point to the One True God does not equal ignorance. I study God's Word prayerfully and I do not accept what man tells me if it does not line up with God's Word. Again, as stated in the OP, God does not ask us to put our brain on a shelf. The religion/s that you refer to however do. Try being a free thinker in the mormon, catholic, or muslim religion. It will get you kicked out of the church in former two and killed in the latter.

Seeashriink

Originally posted by seeashrink

Originally posted by TILTed

Originally posted by seeashrink
This thread has already, beginning with the second post, gone way off course.
I would encourage any Christians posting on this thread to not get caught up in the debate of the existance of God. We do not need to debate the God of creation. I would encourage you to show love to those that belittle us or persecute us with words. Show the heart of Christ, not one of contempt.
Seeashrink

BAM! Non-answer.

Yes. Believers are instructed to ignore the hateful questioning of the "non-believer". Learning about your religion will never benefit your religion, so STOP NOW. Just send in your tithe, and go about your business, knowing that you are not required to think - just believe everything they tell you and IF YOU ARE SERIOUS ENOUGH, you may be saved.

This was not meant to be an answer to anything, but a suggestion to believers. We are told to bless those that curse us, when reviled to revile not again. I am not religious and have no religion. I do pay tithes where I worship to support the ministry there. Refusing to debate, but to show love instead and to point to the One True God does not equal ignorance. I study God's Word prayerfully and I do not accept what man tells me if it does not line up with God's Word. Again, as stated in the OP, God does not ask us to put our brain on a shelf. The religion/s that you refer to however do. Try being a free thinker in the mormon, catholic, or muslim religion. It will get you kicked out of the church in former two and killed in the latter.

Seeashriink

edit on 31-5-2011 by seeashrink because: correction in grammar

FACT: Neither you or I have any idea what the "One True God" is.

reply to post by seeashrink


Apart from the more abstract and academic debate on the existence of 'god' or not, this quote of yours is maybe a reason for the growing opposition to missionary christianity.

Quote: ["I do some good works and I do love all, however I thank God that His salvation is by grace and not by works. Grace is simply unmerited favor from God. There is nothing any of us can do to win God's favor."]

It MAY surprise you, but non-christians and non-theists are often very well aware of this point of bible-interpretated dissention between christians, with its three major positions of faith, law and (unconditional) compassion (sometimes somewhat mixed).

And the dishonesty of advocating 'love'/compassion as universal, also in social contexts as a moral guide, but not being explicitely clear on the differences on the CONDITIONS of divine and mundane 'love' is seen as missionary trickery.

Contrary to many theist claims, quite a few of us critics DO understand both your positions and their consequences, and sugarcoating and semantic acrobatics only make you appear more hypocritical.

Originally posted by bogomil
reply to post by seeashrink

 

Apart from the more abstract and academic debate on the existence of 'god' or not, this quote of yours is maybe a reason for the growing opposition to missionary christianity.

Quote: ["I do some good works and I do love all, however I thank God that His salvation is by grace and not by works. Grace is simply unmerited favor from God. There is nothing any of us can do to win God's favor."]

It MAY surprise you, but non-christians and non-theists are often very well aware of this point of bible-interpretated dissention between christians, with its three major positions of faith, law and (unconditional) compassion (sometimes somewhat mixed).

And the dishonesty of advocating 'love'/compassion as universal, also in social contexts as a moral guide, but not being explicitely clear on the differences on the CONDITIONS of divine and mundane 'love' is seen as missionary trickery.

Contrary to many theist claims, quite a few of us critics DO understand both your positions and their consequences, and sugarcoating and semantic acrobatics only make you appear more hypocritical.

I'm not interested in "semantic acrobatics". I don't have a hidden, conspiratory agenda. Having been here several years, I know that this is a conspiracy website, but you will notice that I didn't post in the religious conspiracy forum, but in this "off topic" forum. Non-believers, atheist, agnostics, or any other label you choose to use are notorius for trying it "intellectualize" faith and God. If it is not tangeble or proven by some psuedo science then it does not exist. By the way, before you jump on that, I do not consider all science fake. There are some brilliant works written by Christian scientist. Robby Zacharias is one that comes to mind that may be worth a read.
God loves you regardless of your personal beliefs. I don't mind you calling me a hypocrit, God knows my heart and He alone is my judge.

Seeashrink

reply to post by TILTed


FACT: Neither you or I have any idea what the "One True God" is.

No fact at all, simply your opinion.

Seeashrink

reply to post by seeashrink


Good. Now we know YOU have the absolute truth in your possession because you have a personal relationship with god - you've even "tasted" god.

Share the truth with me. Which version of the bible is the ABSOLUTE TRUTH, written by God.

reply to post by seeashrink


You wrote:

["Non-believers, atheist, agnostics, or any other label you choose to use are notorius for trying it "intellectualize" faith and God."]

Nope, not in my case anyway. I'm both aware of and respect the differences between objective procedure and faith. What I'm objecting to is the invasive aspects of any ideology.

Quote: ["If it is not tangeble or proven by some psuedo science then it does not exist."]

Define 'pseudo-science'.

Quote: ["By the way, before you jump on that, I do not consider all science fake."]

As above.

Quote: ["There are some brilliant works written by Christian scientist. Robby Zacharias is one that comes to mind that may be worth a read."]

I will take a look at him.

Quote: ["God loves you regardless of your personal beliefs."]

Your inclusion of me in your theistic fabulations only emphasizes their invasive character.

I can, for your illustration, produce and send back equally dogmatic non-sense: Christianity is some demon's masterpiece of social and spiritual engineering and spiritual slavery. This is THE truth. Why? Because it IS the truth.

Quote: ["I don't mind you calling me a hypocrit, God knows my heart and He alone is my judge."]

What's between you and the 'god' of your choice is your business. What doctrinal non-sense you try to impose on mankind is everybody's business.

reply to post by TILTed


I'm not sure why you are making a rocking horse out of the figure of speech I used "taste" Since that is all it is. It is used in Psalms 34:8 and in the Hebrew mean "perceived". So if it helps I have perceived that God is good through experience.
I believe that the Bible as we have it is the Word of God. It is devided in to 66 books as you know. There are some books that were not included in this canon known as the apocrypha. It is true that in 1611 that these books were translated from the original greek, hebrew, and some arabic by translators working for King James. These were just men subject to human error. Now, having said that, God looks at the intent of the heart. If we are following the Bible as we have it to the best of our ability then God honors that. The thread that runs through the Bible from beginning to end is Jesus Christ, and there is no error in the Bible that negates Him, or God, or the Holy Spirit. Nor does it negate His love for you. Try as you may, He will not cease to exist and His love for you will continue.
Seeashrink

Originally posted by seeashrink

I'm not here to argue or debate and I will not be drawn into either.

I am not trying to force you into a debate, I am simply asking that you refrain from speaking in absolutes in which you have NO buisness doing so.

The simple fact of the matter is God is love, He is also righteous and just.

This is debatable at best. You cannot prove his existance, therefore your argument is invalid. I could point out a host of your own passages contradicting your second sentence, but that wouldn't do any good because you will just ignore the point and move on to repeating the same sentences. (See Prophecy #2)

All the debate or arguement in the world will not change His existance or make Him go away.

Actually, testable, verifiable evidence will change his existance, as of now, he's just as real as Santa Clause or the Easter Bunny.

His existance remains.

......in your imagination.

This thread has already, beginning with the second post, gone way off course.
I would encourage any Christians posting on this thread to not get caught up in the debate of the existance of God. We do not need to debate the God of creation. I would encourage you to show love to those that belittle us or persecute us with words. Show the heart of Christ, not one of contempt.

I'm sure that since this is directed at me specifically that you do realize I have no problem with your thread about christian doctrine. It's when you address atheists specifically, and then consistantly adhere to absolute truth EVEN THOUGH you've admitted yourself that you are unable to prove anything. This is hypocricy at it's best, and is exactly why this thread is headed in the direction it is. This may be a section for sharing experiences, but it seems that you are uncapable of doing so without insisting that I will one day bow my knees and accept a fictional character as supreme being.

When you make these assertions, you derail the thread before it has even begun, just as I have prophecized. (see Prophecy #3)

If you are looking for complex facts or theories, with references to Greek and Hebrew text, carbon 13 testing, old and new earth theories.............Christ died for you and your sins and loves you even as you read this, and desires a relationship with you.

I don't expect you to be an expert on anything scientific and it would be wrong of me to assume that you should be to follow your beliefs. However your final sentence yet again is the issue that I have, you are speaking of things you can't prove and pushing this rhetoric upon us. I don't desire an argument with you, nor am I angry as some posters seem to think. I am however annoyed that despite your inability to read my questions and respond to them appropriately, you are fulfilling my 2nd prophecy.

Please take a moment to address ATS member TILTed's posts, as he is the only christian/theist in this thread that actually understands the points I'm trying to make. He has time and again posted very accurate points that you continue to dodge (see prophecy #2 again). He understands that he can't prove "god's" existance and he doesn't force it upon other people, instead he tries to follow his beliefs in his own life instead of insisting it upon others. THIS IS A TRUE BELIEVER. I may be atheist, but people like TILTed are the reason atheists hold out hope for change between the two groups. Unfortunately it will be a long hard road for atheists to get through your thick faith based skulls because you are inodoctrinated to believe without question and force your beliefs on others.

King

Originally posted by TILTed
reply to post by seeashrink

 

Good. Now we know YOU have the absolute truth in your possession because you have a personal relationship with god - you've even "tasted" god.

Share the truth with me. Which version of the bible is the ABSOLUTE TRUTH, written by God.

I couldn't have said it better myself brother. Even though we are on different sides of the issue, I think we are on the same page.

What are they up to, about 2,400 different versions of the bible now? I wonder which one is his absolute truth and how many other versions are just fiction?

King

Originally posted by Kingalbrect79
...Please take a moment to address ATS member TILTed's posts, as he is the only christian/theist in this thread that actually understands the points I'm trying to make. He has time and again posted very accurate points that you continue to dodge (see prophecy #2 again). He understands that he can't prove "god's" existance and he doesn't force it upon other people, instead he tries to follow his beliefs in his own life instead of insisting it upon others. THIS IS A TRUE BELIEVER. I may be atheist, but people like TILTed are the reason atheists hold out hope for change between the two groups. Unfortunately it will be a long hard road for atheists to get through your thick faith based skulls because you are inodoctrinated to believe without question and force your beliefs on others.

King

That is very kind of you King.

And, though I hesitate to agree with you (for humility's sake) I do attempt to be the person you described. No doubt I fall short of even my own goals, which are to glorify what I believe to be my creator by DOING what he/she/they would want, which is attempt to LOVE all without exception. I will never complete that one!!

I'd rather spend my time DOING than PREACHING. Especially since I have no proof other than everything I see around me.

Originally posted by seeashrink
reply to post by TILTed

 

I'm not sure why you are making a rocking horse out of the figure of speech I used "taste" Since that is all it is. It is used in Psalms 34:8 and in the Hebrew mean "perceived". So if it helps I have perceived that God is good through experience.
I believe that the Bible as we have it is the Word of God. It is devided in to 66 books as you know. There are some books that were not included in this canon known as the apocrypha. It is true that in 1611 that these books were translated from the original greek, hebrew, and some arabic by translators working for King James. These were just men subject to human error. Now, having said that, God looks at the intent of the heart. If we are following the Bible as we have it to the best of our ability then God honors that. The thread that runs through the Bible from beginning to end is Jesus Christ, and there is no error in the Bible that negates Him, or God, or the Holy Spirit. Nor does it negate His love for you. Try as you may, He will not cease to exist and His love for you will continue.
Seeashrink

More non-answers. There are many versions of the bible and you know it as well as I. You just can't answer. But that is okay too.

Try as you may, He will not cease to exist and His love for you will continue.

Thanks for tossing in that "christian jab" at the end. Almost as good as the old "I'll pray for you..." - a timeless favorite.

Your Jesus-fu is strong!

Originally posted by seeashrink

I believe that the Bible as we have it is the Word of God. It is devided in to 66 books as you know. There are some books that were not included in this canon known as the apocrypha. It is true that in 1611 that these books were translated from the original greek, hebrew, and some arabic by translators working for King James. These were just men subject to human error. Now, having said that, God looks at the intent of the heart. If we are following the Bible as we have it to the best of our ability then God honors that.

Of course, because any supreme being would post his divine word in broken english and confusing, contradicting passages that have been edited for content over the course of 2000 years. The old testament made "god" out to be a violent oppressive god, so you had to sweeten it up because people were starting to realize it's all BS, so the "god of love" was born in the new testament. makes perfect sense.

The thread that runs through the Bible from beginning to end is Jesus Christ, and there is no error in the Bible that negates Him, or God, or the Holy Spirit.

So using your statement, the bible is completely true and error free from beginning to end, so I ask you just as TILTed did:

Which one? you have 2,400 and counting to choose from....

King