Why Kerry would be bad for America.

I know up front that this thread is going to get a lot of flak but this is the way I see it. The reason Kerry would be a bad president for the U.S. Is simple, he was raised n Europe. Now before you get all riled up and call me a bigot, a redneck or whatever follow my reasoning.
I am an American, I was born in florida and since 02 I have lived in Europe. My primary home is in eastern Europe but I sepnd about two weeks a month travelng throughout western Europe on Business. On the whole I like europeans as people. Most I've met on a one to one basis, are polite good hearted people. However Europeans and Americans are very very different. We have different outlooks, different prorities, different values, and dfferent beliefs. Most of europe is a socialistic society that is very dependant on thier government. They depend on the government for healthcare, for safety, for protection, and for retirement. Most europeans have no practical understanding of what a workaholic is. And in terms of investment knowledge they are far less sophsticated than the average American. No none of ths is wrong, but it s different. Look at the tax structure in Europe, Whetehr we are talking about the U.K which has the least tax burden in europe or Sweeden which has one of the greatest, they are All higher than the U.S. even if you look back before the Presidents recent tax cut. In terms of self defense, home defense, and the ownership of weapons they are far more restrictive. The U.K recently passed the "offensive weapons act" which basically means that citizens of the U.K. can not even carry a stun gun, for self protection and can only cary a knife if there is a valid reason (i.e. fishing etc.) The governments in Europe from what I have sen intrude far more into the lives of thier citizens than the U.S. and there is nothing wrong with that because it seems that is the way they want it. But Americans are different. 5 years ago before the tax cuts the highest rate of tax was 39.6% which is mid to low range in Europe, but how many Americans thought that was too high? You cannot get a permit for a handgun in Europe and many countries even require you to register a rifle or shotgun, Amercans protest the waiting period on handguns (not all but enough) The government of the U.K can if it chosses tell a newspaper not to write a story, and under anti terroism laws enacted in the 80s can arrest you without charges and deny you right to an attorney for a given length of tme, The patriot act engendered howls of protest and it doesn't go nearly that far. Now I'm not passing judgement on the givernments in Europe because its not my place and the citizens of those countries don't seem to mind, but Amercans are different. John Kerry was raised in Europe, and a lot of what he says shows that he thinks more like a European than an American (again neither is better than the other just different) But can a man who thinks like a European, effectivley lead the American Nation? Does he truly understand the way the average American mind works or how it views the issues? I don't think he does. In the end I think that because of this Kerry would be bad for America becuse though he was born here he wasn't raised here and I dont think he really understnds us.
Thats just my opinion I could be wrong

I can appreciate the distinctions you made between our cultures, but at this point Kerry has been a US Senator for 20yrs. IMO, the European mindset (if any) has been disolved.

What, he spent 4 years in Switzerland and now "thinks like a European". You cite stuff all over the place from "Europe" as a whole.

That like me saying you grew up in Florida, so you must think like a North American. How can I trust this thread isn't compromised by your inherent Mexican and Canadian ideals you North American?

I bet you just love Cuba and Haiti too. I've been to Florida. I know you're not real Americans anymore down there.

I know what's happened. You've been abroad for two years and have been compromised!

Kidding of course.

The point I was making is that the people and culture a person experiences in his early years has a greater and more permanent effect on a persons beliefs and mindset than the rest of hs life. The fact that kerrys young psyche was formed in germny as opposed to the U.S. is I believe a valid point. Think of how many times he has stated that our allies have lost respect fo us or how our allies no longer like us or comments of that nature. Based on his comments t seems he cares more about what Europe thinks of America than what Americans think of Amerca and that bothers me.
Rant I understand the point you were making however I thnk you would agree that there is more of a shared culture in a pan European sense than between the U.S. and either Mexico or Canada.

Originally posted by mwm1331
.......Think of how many times he has stated that our allies have lost respect fo us or how our allies no longer like us or comments of that nature. Based on his comments t seems he cares more about what Europe thinks of America than what Americans think of Amerca and that bothers me.

- Oh come on.

JK makes a very valid point reflecting the actuality of the situation. Bush has reduced US support in europe.

......and what do you have to say when Bush talks about support from europe (that is what little he does actually get once in a while)? Is he too-euro-ised then too?!

You point seems to boil down, mainly, to some sort of a fear of Kerry maybe liking a euro tax regime and the euro position on personal arms....because he spent a few years there. Not that there is the slightest indication that this would be so or any part of his program. So, how come?

Naturally any influence his years in Vietnam in grossly extreme circumstances don't seem worth a mention......because it doesn't suit the agenda?

Ever lower taxes on the already priviledged low taxed super wealthy and having guns about the place......wow, if that is your priority in this election I suggest you try not to be so surprised when or if it turns out to be not the concern of most.

Thank God Europe has turned it's back on such pointless stupidity.....and how amazing that, despite your raising the topic, you do not even mention the wide benefits that europe enjoys because of her approach to tax and gun control......or does that detract from your agenda too?

[edit on 7-8-2004 by sminkeypinkey]

From a non-american point of view, i feel that Kerry would do alot of good for America. Bush has created a hell of alot of anti-american feelings across the world, not just the middle east. I feel that Kerry's foreign policy will be much better then Bush and he will think before bringing out the guns.

A country with as much influence and power as America should have a leader with atleast some knowledge of the way foreigners think. It only makes sense as this leader would take into consideration the views of people from other countries while devising the foreign policy which affects them.

And who's to say there aren't plenty of Europeans who think the same way you do?

We as a country were founded by Europeans, it's extremely important to rebuild our alliances with our brothers and sisters in Europe, especially in these times when world cooperation is essential to fighting these criminal religious fundamentalists who have spread out all over the world. Should we just thumb our noses at Europe and expect them to help us at the same time? No, the western world needs to be united and I see Kerry as the only candidate who has a chance to win, and will work to re-unite us. I look forward to being respected in the world again.

Originally posted by SupaFly
I can appreciate the distinctions you made between our cultures, but at this point Kerry has been a US Senator for 20yrs. IMO, the European mindset (if any) has been disolved.

ha ha ha. so what if hes been a senator. you dont forget the stuff youve learned while you were grwoing up.

Originally posted by CiderGood_HeadacheBad
A country with as much influence and power as America should have a leader with atleast some knowledge of the way foreigners think.

Not only that, but at least have enough brains to know what everyday Americans think, he's frikkin out to lunch this troll is.
He maybe be influencial but just because your influencial doesn't make you a good leader or automatically tac common sense onto your brain..
He sold his military brothers out back in the 60s and 70s for POLITICAL GAIN, and he's using them now, except this time their apparanlty his buddies, yet again he's using them for POLITICAL GAIN... Yes, indeed, what a great leader... Not. He's sold his soul to the devil and I ain't buyin his crap.
I'll leave that up to the sheeple of this country... Go nuts brainless monkies.




[edit on 8-8-2004 by TrueLies]

Look I'm not bashing europe sminkey pinkey, But the fact is that what works in europe would start a revolution in America. The reason I didn't mention the benefts of the policies you mentoned is that to the average American it doesn't matter. There is nothing wrong with europes system as long as europeans like it. But the systems in place here in europe would not work in america. Its a simple fact. If the federal government attempted to ban all guns there would be a civil war. Now I'm not saying that kerry is gonna do that, But in the back of his head is the idea that it might be a good idea to do so, and the majority of americans would disagree strongly to say the least. What don't you all get? Americans really are different, we have a different culture, a different history (though shared to a large extent) and very different myths. We have our own way of doing things and what works for you guys wouldn't work for us. Why is that such a hard idea to accept?

Originally posted by mwm1331
Look I'm not bashing europe sminkey pinkey, But the fact is that what works in europe would start a revolution in America.

- I think my post was really saying that I found it hard to believe that you really think (with no evidence in his proposals) JK is for trying to impose euro ideas on the US.

The reason I didn't mention the benefts of the policies you mentoned is that to the average American it doesn't matter.

- I'm sure that is so. I'm also sure - were such a debate to opened up, which as I said I don't think it will be anyway - that most Americans have no clue as to how continental europe benefits from it's approach in particular having very low crime rates and a very inexpensive justice system etc etc.

There is nothing wrong with europes system as long as europeans like it. But the systems in place here in europe would not work in america. Its a simple fact. If the federal government attempted to ban all guns there would be a civil war. Now I'm not saying that kerry is gonna do that, But in the back of his head is the idea that it might be a good idea to do so, and the majority of americans would disagree strongly to say the least.

- well that's certainly what everyone is led to believe. I would love to see the debate really take place, followed by some kind of vote.

......and I doubt the outcome would be anything less than instructive for all sides in this debate - particularly if it took the form of some kind of 'preferendum' where the public could select from a choice of optional situations that appealed to them rather than a limited yes or no option.

But as I said whether JK believes it would be preferable or not I do not see any indication that this will form any part of his program. Even removing automatic weapons seems a step too far for US politicians.

What don't you all get? Americans really are different, we have a different culture, a different history (though shared to a large extent) and very different myths. We have our own way of doing things and what works for you guys wouldn't work for us. Why is that such a hard idea to accept?

- I have no trouble accepting your point on that. I think you have picked up my secondary point though.

My primary point was that I do not believe JK's couple of years in europe will mean a euro program of any kind.

I wish I could agree with you sminkey pinkey but when every other word out of kerry's mouth is "our allies" this and "world opinion" that I begin to wonder whos opinion of America is more important to Mr. Kerry, Americans or other?

It catches it because it's short on reason and long on preference. Having a leader that understands our most affluent customers, our most advanced military allies and our biggest competitors on the World markets is a bad thing!?!?!
The tax issues you raise ( see my threads on TAXES ) are founded on hype to steer our domestic elections, but are skinny on meat.
Think, for example, of the overall picture: a contractor or small business owner pays about $1000/month for comprehensive family health insurance - and that's no frills - no prescrition discounts, no options. Consevatively bump that up to another $15K you spend compared to the European family of four. Add to the mix additional education costs and the additional hours in a work year ( you mentioned they have no concept of "work-aholics...as if that's a BAD THING!?!? )

I've worked several global projects and have found this: we work too much for too little & have far fewer protections of our blue/white collar workforce.
The gun hysteria is uniquely American & I don't fault the Europeans for not having it.
We live in a country that outgrew sustaining itself on it's domestic markets over a 100 years ago; so thinking globally is of paramount importance to our way of life.

Originally posted by Bout Time
It catches it because it's short on reason and long on preference. Having a leader that understands our most affluent customers, our most advanced military allies and our biggest competitors on the World markets is a bad thing!?!?!
The tax issues you raise ( see my threads on TAXES ) are founded on hype to steer our domestic elections, but are skinny on meat.
Think, for example, of the overall picture: a contractor or small business owner pays about $1000/month for comprehensive family health insurance - and that's no frills - no prescrition discounts, no options. Consevatively bump that up to another $15K you spend compared to the European family of four. Add to the mix additional education costs and the additional hours in a work year ( you mentioned they have no concept of "work-aholics...as if that's a BAD THING!?!? )

I've worked several global projects and have found this: we work too much for too little & have far fewer protections of our blue/white collar workforce.
The gun hysteria is uniquely American & I don't fault the Europeans for not having it.
We live in a country that outgrew sustaining itself on it's domestic markets over a 100 years ago; so thinking globally is of paramount importance to our way of life.

Bout time you misunderstood what I was saying. No I don't think that understanding our allies is a bad thing, but thinking that we should be more like them is. Now I dont mind living in europe too much but I don't do it by choice, I do it because I make my money here. My point is that the American way of thinking and the European way of thinking are very different. Put average Americans and average Europeans in the same situation and they will come up with consistantly different responses. Don't get me wrong I think worldwide diversty is great but would you vote for Chirac as President of the U.S.? Of course not (even If he could run) because as a frenchman he thinks lke a frenchman and we want our country run like America not France. Now I'm not sayng the American way of doing thngs is better, just that its better for Americans. Just as the french way is better for the french. But I don't think (and remember this is just one mans opinion) Kerry thinks like an american. I wouldn't vote for Chirac, or Schroeder, so why would I vote for kerry? As for the gun obsessed thing, Americans have good reason to be gun obsessed, guns are a part of our national identity. Now I dont think Kerry is going to rase taxes, hell he is even promising to lower them but I dont think that is gonna happen ether. But what I do know is when a problem confronts America I wan't to know that the President is going to come up with an American solution, and I honestly don't believe that Kerry will. I think Amerca has spent long enough puting her own needs to the side so as to placate the "world community" amd I dont see Kerry stopping that trend, while I know for a fact that Bush has. I also don't trust kerry because he can't seem to make up his mind, what pecisely he is either for or against. I won't do business with someone I percieve to be flighty or unreliable why would I vote for one? Don't get me wrong Bush has his faults but at least I know what he is for and against. I think kerry has the same disease as a lot of liberals know, what I like to call the "european infereority complex" They seem to believe that the U.S. is inferior to Europe and that everythng in the U.S. would be better if we could just be more like the "European Utopias" Now while I respect thier right to have ther own opnion I don't want someone like that running the U.S.
I guess it boils down to this, If you ask both candidates whether or not America is the greatest nation on earth Bush would say YES, Kerry on the other hand would IMHO probably spout some political speech about how the community of nations is wide and diverse and anout how much we can learn from our allies, so he could please the Patrotic Americans without offending the Europeans. I just don't think a guy who feels our allies opinions are more important than the welfare of the nation is right for the job, and I think Kerry cares more about the perception of America worldwide than the actual state of America.

Perception is what drives you to be pro-Bush: it's not analysis of his policies.
Perception of "Brand X" is what makes you buy "Brand X".
Perception of the US facilitates our capatilistic system, as well as the crucial partnering on non-financial issues.

Yes, as an answer to that arbitrary question, Bush would have a response sans any consideration. Kerry would think.......I like people, especially CEO's leading companies that directly impact my finances or world leaders, who consider their words & actions.

But getting back to the initial premise, I think it fool hardy to suggest or even remotely imply that we're faced with a choice of a "True American" vs. a "European American". There are millions of Americans who consider actions before they take them, who worry about perception & how it impacts all facets of life and who do change their minds on dynamic issues that provide new data along a timeline.....that's American as well, not European in genesis.

Actually bout time it was Bush's polcies that made me a supporter, although I voted for him in the last election t was a vote against Gore not for Bush. The fact is I agree with the vast majority of his policies.

In his own words.

I believe I can fight a more effective, more thoughtful, more strategic, more proactive, more sensitive war on terror that reaches out to other nations and brings them to our side and lives up to American values in history.

I'm sorry but that was by far the most ridiculus thing I have ever heard any candidate say and watched Bill Clinton argue the meaning of the word "is"

What John Kerry meant, was that we must be more sensitive to our allies, and not walk all over them in the name of 9/11. We had the support of the world until the Iraq war. He did not mean we be sensitive to the terrorists. He has stated that we will kill them, and it will be alot easier to do if we are supported and respected by the rest of the world, they will be more obliged to provide intel and support without the citizen's disapproval of helping Bush, whom the majority of the world fears. And, is waiting around Najaf asking Al Sadr nicely to come out of that mosque not being sensitive? Where's the protecting American interests at all costs attitude here? Seems Bush and his supporters are intentionally misinterpreting Kerry's statement, while in reality showing "sensitivity" to militants themselves. They could eliminate the Al Sadr problem with just a couple MOABs, but recognize that sensitivity is a must or the world will turn on us, so Kerry's statement was correct.

Kerry would be bad for America if he does not take bush out of power, that will the worst for America. not winning the elections.