State Trooper drops charges someone flipping the bird

reply to post by Raist


I'm glad to hear that because that means Australia is further along the "nanny state" road than Canada! LMAO! We just elected a majority Conservative government so we have four more years of safety.

reply to post by corpusInitium


I cannot fathom why having your arm out the window would be a finable offence. That is seriously sad. I have to work on my "driver's tan" after all.

I guess though if I were to look at different laws around the world I would find many I do not understand or think of as sensible.


Raist

reply to post by Raist


Pardon me for going off topic a bit, but I used to be the same way. Until a work buddy of mine happened to flip his truck doing the same thing. Got his hand and forearm crushed and dragged under the door. What a mess. I keep my arm in the car now

As for flipping off the cops, it is protected speech, but we all know that there are about a million useless statutes on the books, and a flipped off cop would be happy to find every single one and site your for them.

I see a very scary trend here this week. The trend and I mean it when I say it’s “trendy” to hate cop’s, the military and your parents, but this week has been especially obvious. These videos are just the part that is edited, like the Rodney King video. The part the “hate everything” crowd wants you to see. Don‘t be stupid enough to get sucked in to this maelstrom. Especially if your young, in high school or college. The crowd mentality in these places is crazy. It‘s very easy to get a lot of people with no idea what’s going on to follow. I don‘t like when the anarchists attack the cops or military with partial videos. Investigate on your own and be careful what you are looking at. This memorial day it’s especially vicious. Be careful out there and thank God there are still people out there that believe in God, Country and Family! You don’t have to be American to have these beliefs. I know in places like England, France, Australia there are people that feel this way to. So a BIG HOORAH to our military this memorial day weekend and thanks to all who have paid the ultimate sacrifice for me to live in this wonderful country where anyone can spout their views without fear. Thanks to all from the colonists to today!

reply to post by neo96


you are almost right , but it was the two finger salute that came from those times .
when the english took a french archer prisoner they cut of the two middle fingers so as to preventing him from using the bow again , and when in battle they gave the two finger salute to intimidate the enemy .
in later times the two finger salute became to mean f**k you or f**k off .

thank you guys for replying this is a disturbing case of abuse of power yeah so what its childish that the guy flipped off the cop but whats even more childish the cop tried to arrest the dude. They are trained to uphold any confrontation that is not necessary. In this case the cop was wrong.

Originally posted by TKDRL

As for flipping off the cops, it is protected speech, but we all know that there are about a million useless statutes on the books, and a flipped off cop would be happy to find every single one and site your for them.

This image seems to accurately depict the point you are making.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/e72a1f7ed4bd.jpg[/atsimg]
Had to be edited/blurred.


It only requires a small amount of common sense to understand that it is never a good idea to intentionally anger someone who is in a more powerful position than you are.

Many tickets given---- are what is called P.O.P.'s......for Pized off Police LOL! I agree with the poster who said it isn't wise to intentionally make them mad. In Texas, an officer may arrest for any traffic violation but two and I can't remember what they are off the top of my head. That means towing your vehicle too. While there are many good officers===there are also some real crooked, vindictive and stupid ones out there. Those are the ones who will get'cha.

I believe in free speech, but people for some reason can't accept that not everyone is going to like what you have to say. And will react accordingly. Childish punks hide behind free speech in order to act like butt heads. Flip me the bird and you will experience something called "consequences".

/TOA

reply to post by Raist


hi Raist...

the law they got me on was introduced
after someone died by "car surfing"...
eg: cannot drive motor vehicle with any
part of your body OUTSIDE the car...

but it was used in this case by a
frustrated cop who couldnt get me for anything else...

seeya.

Originally posted by lokdog
If some punk flipped me off id punch them in the face a couple times, see if that didnt help there attitude. Thats what the cop should have done, took out his nightstick and laid open that guys head. When you flip someone off your challenging them, its sign language for calling someone out. If your letting your alligator mouth overload your jaybird a$$ then you deserve to get the beat down.

Then you will have earned your tenure as a professional soap-dropper. See, you're talking about aggravated assault, which is a pretty big felony offense. Meanwhile, flipping you off? Not a crime anywhere.

Grow a pair; someone's finger doesn't hurt you.

reply to post by TKDRL


Well just rolling a vehicle can cause your arm/hand to get caught up under it even more so with the windows down. I understand what you are saying though, but in a roll your arms are sort of tossed about like rag dolls.


reply to post by shaneR


Wow, sorry to hear of such a crappy law. I mean I understand the car surfing thing being bad and all and of course hanging out a window or having your legs out would be bad also, but your arm is ridiculous



Raist

Originally posted by lokdog
If some punk flipped me off id punch them in the face a couple times, see if that didnt help there attitude. Thats what the cop should have done, took out his nightstick and laid open that guys head. When you flip someone off your challenging them, its sign language for calling someone out. If your letting your alligator mouth overload your jaybird a$$ then you deserve to get the beat down.

So if you were a police officer, you'd be willing to throw away your career and pretty much your life just to prove to some immature punk that your a tough guy? I hope to god you aren't in law enforcement.

I suspect the dismissal request came the instant someone in the State AG's office actually read what had happened. This is spectacularly stupid on the part of the CSP. And I mean spectacularly stupid.

There is a WEALTH of legal precedent at the federal district court and Supreme Court level that specifically cites that a law enforcement officer CANNOT CANNOT CANNOT take action of ANY KIND against you for flipping them the bird. In fact, you can dance around flipping the bird with both hands and shouting F--k you! at the cop as long as you don't do it in a threatening manner.

By taking action against the guy, and most *especially* by chasing him around with planes and what not, then charging him with a crime, and even better, if they detained him even for a moment to do so, they open themselves to two attacks. Even stopping the guy to issue him a citation is all it takes, and they admit to it.

One, the qualified immunity of any officer involved with the action from the accuser to the arrester and including the plane pilots and everyone else officially involved can be set aside, and they can be charged with any and every crime associated with this, personally, due to demonstrated incompetence. This means they can be personally sued for compensation and are subject to a wide range of civil and criminal charges that they might not be otherwise.

Second, the state of Colorado can also have their immunity to legal action swept aside by the court and they can be sued bald by the guy. All the guy's lawyer has to do is do a discovery on the number of times since 1996 that the state of Colorado has done ANY SORT of legal action against someone for flipping off a trooper or telling them to f--k themselves, and it can be used to "establish a pattern and practice" of defying the Supreme Court. And that is bad bad juju for the state AG and for the state's treasury. That, or find that the CSP training materials were not updated in 1996, then it's negligence charges for all.

It doesn't matter what the state's laws are on this matter. They are null and void. Period. They figured that out and will now commence running from this as fast as they can. I suspect they'll either try to buy the guy off or drum up some crap charge to bargain with. Simply withdrawing their charges against him will not end his ability to retaliate successfully in federal court.

There's a huge supply of legal decisions on this very point you could look at. Hackbart vs City of Pittsburgh is about as easy reading as it comes, and it's got references to the other relevant legal precedent.

A nice chunk of the legal decision in Hackbart:

B. Elledge’s (the cop) Response Was Retaliatory and Was Motivated
By Hackbart’s (the flipper) Exercise of a Constitutional Right

In addition to demonstrating that he was engaging in protected activity, Hackbart must
show that the vehicle stop by Elledge and the issuance of the citation for disorderly conduct
constituted retaliation for his exercise of First Amendment rights. Finally, Hackbart must prove
his constitutionally protected hand gesture was a substantial or motivating factor in Elledge’s
decision to stop his vehicle and issue a citation for disorderly conduct.

Retaliation for the exercise of constitutionally protected rights is itself a violation of
rights secured by the Constitution actionable under § 1983. White v. Napoleon, 897 F.2d 103,
111-112 (3d Cir.1990); Carter v. Dragovich, 1999 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 11389 at 7 (E.D. Pa. July
27, 1999).

Moreover, in this instance Elledge conducted a traffic stop of Hackbart shortly after
Hackbart gave him the middle finger which was also a violation of Hackbart’s right to be free of
unreasonable searches and seizures under the Fourth Amendment. Elledge’s response to
Hackbart’s exercise of his First Amendment right was to initiate a traffic stop and issue a citation
for disorderly conduct. Clearly, Elledge’s conduct was an adverse action in response to Hackbart
flipping him off. The citation given to Hackbart clearly states why Elledge stopped and cited
him: “Driver made an obscene gesture towards me. Flipped me off while driving by. Also
flipped off another driver." Pl. App. E; Pl. App. D, Elledge Depo p. 13. The Court finds
Elledge’s conduct retaliatory.

The state of Colorado is screwed if the guy pursues it. He should. And every trooper in the chain should be charged with violation of the guy's civil rights under color of law, and misuse of state property and the like at the very least. A few dismissals would be in order. Also the guy in charge of training these imbeciles should be sacked. This is grade school LEO basics. You cannot CANNOT arrest or retaliate for the bird. Ever.

But then, most cops don't understand the limits on "lawful order" either, and you'd think that would be basic as well.