Who Are The Animals?

Originally posted by JudasIscariot
Maybe all you meat eaters who compare the life of a vegetable to an animal should start protesting for vegetable rights to stop the inhumane slaughter of vegetables.

No, we're not the one's who have moral problems with eating living creatures to survive. We're just pointing out the hypocrisy of being a vegetarian for moral reasons.

I have a lot more respect for people who are vegetarians for health reasons.

Originally posted by Nosred

Originally posted by JudasIscariot
Maybe all you meat eaters who compare the life of a vegetable to an animal should start protesting for vegetable rights to stop the inhumane slaughter of vegetables.

No, we're not the one's who have moral problems with eating living creatures to survive. We're just pointing out the hypocrisy of being a vegetarian for moral reasons.

I have a lot more respect for people who are vegetarians for health reasons.

Exactly. That's what I was trying to get across. There's serious hypocricy going on with the "humanitarian reasons" argument that people just gloss over with their standard cognitive dissonance.

You brought up the point of the small animals/etc killed during harvests and planting, and that was a valid point indeed.

But if they're going to argue about humanitarian reasons for eating vegetarian only, don't just stop there.. what about insects that are genocided for their food, as well?

Going vegetarian for health reasons is one thing, but there's a big difference between eating because of that and eating because of a guilty conscience over the treatment of animals in the meat industry, which we can all admit is less than glowing.

My point with it all is, if you;re going to play a particular card, play it all the way. You can't cherrypick the arguments and still claim to have an ethical leg to stand on

This is ridiculous. Live and let live. If you are vegetarian, fine, but I still have the right to eat meat if I want and I like it so no video will change that. When people finally stop trying to "convert" people to their side, whether it be religion, eating habit, or whatever, and they finally start accepting others, the world will be an even better place.

reply to post by Nosred


The video is about the inhumane abuse of animals, I haven't labelled meat eaters as amoral and inhumane. Do you honestly believe that vegetables suffer from inhumane cruelty and that I'm a hypocrite for being a vegetarian? Maybe I'm desensitised from the horrors of vegetable cruelty.

I must be evil I watched your video and a few other factory farm ones and I don't belive I will stop eating meat. My cattle are free range and every day is a good one except their last one. We butcher a few for the family and some are sold. After they are gone they aren't my problem.

I pet my cows and treat them well. I keep other animals away. It makes them taste better.

Originally posted by JudasIscariot
reply to post by Nosred

 

The video is about the inhumane abuse of animals

true, and no one denied that.

Originally posted by JudasIscariot
reply to post by Nosred

 

I haven't labelled meat eaters as amoral and inhumane.

the OP has, therefore the discussion evolved the way it did.

reply to post by Nosred


Think about massive amount of grain being fed to hogs, cows and other livestock. Farmed animals eat far more grain and other field foods that must be collected via tractor than people. Therefor, raising livestock results in more overall death of field critters than strictly harvesting fields for human consumption.

It is about cruelty REDUCTION not absence of cruelty.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
DHA is not as useful as you may think it is
however eggs are always good

why do you feel the need for high DHA intake?

I have played with my diet over the past decade to figure out what foods allow me to thrive. When I was on a diet devoid of DHA I did not feel like I was getting optimum nutrition and my cognitive function suffered.

I have tried various DHA containing foods like fish/oil and eggs, and felt much better. Maybe it is something else in those foods, but I think it's the DHA. I haven't tried consistently eating algae or taking algae supplements as my sole source of DHA, but that will be my next experiment. I will taper off eggs and fish oil and replace them with algae once my aquarium starts producing

Originally posted by JudasIscariot
The video is about the inhumane abuse of animals, I haven't labelled meat eaters as amoral and inhumane.

Exactly, eating meat is not inhumane.

Treating animals poorly is inhumane.

Why are they treated so extremely inhumane?

Because it is cheaper and easier to treat animals as inanimate objects to make money from them.

Originally posted by JohnnyTHSeed
reply to post by Nosred

 

Think about massive amount of grain being fed to hogs, cows and other livestock. Farmed animals eat far more grain and other field foods that must be collected via tractor than people.

The majority of grain grown for livestock is so low-grade that it's not really fit for human consumption anyways.

Therefor, raising livestock results in more overall death of field critters than strictly harvesting fields for human consumption.

It is about cruelty REDUCTION not absence of cruelty.

Like I said, even if the number of animals killed during harvest every year wasn't in the millions and was instead just one, are you suggesting the life of one baby rabbit isn't worth saving? Are you placing a value on life? If you really wanted to eliminate cruelty you'd grow and pick your own crops so that no animals would be harmed, but I guess your time is better spent arguing online about why meat eaters are bad people.

I raise all my own meat and run a dairy as well. I challenge you to find anything inhumane about my organic free range dairy operation. My ladies bovine and caprine alike are very well cared for.

No tail docking, all organic hay and fodder they roam 40 acres to their whims but return to the barn on their own for business twice a day all on their own. They have the best of everything from barn to stalls to pre-natal care. I give the girls all one year of every three off from pregnancy as well.

As for meat – I raise all kinds; chickens, ducks, geese and a couple of steer. I have recently purchased some hogs to see how that goes.
All my animals are hormone free and raised free range on grass, organic fodder. They tend to be smaller and it takes longer for them to make weight but lead more natural lives… the ducks and geese have a 2 acre pond and I keep no single animal of any species to make sure they have normal social lives. They all come and go as they please until the one sad day I humanely kill and process them for food. I respect my animals and treat them with dignity even the ones I eat.

Everyone should know where their food comes from I agree but not everyone supports or uses the factory meat system. There is a horrible facility in our area that raises hogs in a very (IMO) cruel factory manner; I make it a point to not do business with them in any way.

If you want to make an impact find a local producer and support his operation – it will cost you more but anything worth doing is worth doing right. Eating meat animals is not cruel; treating them with no respect and deplorable conditions that stress them out at the time of slaughter is…

Originally posted by Nosred
The majority of grain grown for livestock is so low-grade that it's not really fit for human consumption anyways.

And there are still critters that get chopped up when that grain is harvested... what was your point? If we didn't grow low-grade quality grains for livestock we could be growing highly nutritious foods for people.

If you really wanted to eliminate cruelty you'd grow and pick your own crops so that no animals would be harmed, but I guess your time is better spent arguing online about why meat eaters are bad people

I never said meat eaters are bad people, defensive much? I also never said I wanted to eliminate cruelty- an impossible feat! I said the point is to create a REDUCTION (I even CAPITALIZED it !) but somehow you missed my point.

Also I run a mushroom farm, I don't grow enough crops to be completely self sufficient but your passive aggressive comment about growing my own food doesn't completely apply.

Originally posted by JohnnyTHSeed
If we didn't grow low-grade quality grains for livestock we could be growing highly nutritious foods for people.

Wrong, not every plot of land is equally fertile. Do you think farmer's always have a choice what they grow on their land?

I said the point is to create a REDUCTION (I even CAPITALIZED it !) but somehow you missed my point.

You know deep down that you could reduce a lot more suffering but you choose not to because your lifestyle is too convenient. You'd have to give up too much, but never mind that because you have a conscience to feel good about, and you can't let something like the death of millions of field animals get in the way of your feelings of moral superiority.

You could reduce a lot more suffering by planting your own crops, but where do you draw the line? You claim to have compassion for animals but when it gets too inconvenient you call it quits? You're no better off than meat eaters in my opinion. A murderer who kills ten people is no better than a murderer who kills twenty if the murder is avoidable.

Also I run a mushroom farm, I don't grow enough crops to be completely self sufficient but your passive aggressive comment about growing my own food doesn't completely apply.

Yeah, and maybe if you didn't spend so much time arguing online about why eating meat is cruel you'd be able to be completely self-sufficient.

Originally posted by Nosred

You know deep down that you could reduce a lot more suffering but you choose not to because your lifestyle is too convenient. You'd have to give up too much, but never mind that because you have a conscience to feel good about, and you can't let something like the death of millions of field animals get in the way of your feelings of moral superiority.

Oh really? You seem to know a lot about me. What more exactly could I do to reduce suffering?

Before you answer you should know that I don't have feelings of moral superiority, especially when it comes to meat eating. It is just food bro.

My personal choices are strictly personal and have nothing to do with other people's lives. I don't care what people eat or do; I can only relay the rationalizations I have about my own behavior. Do as thou wilt brah.

Also, land would become more fertile if it was not used to grow vast fields of monocultures that deplete the soil of nutrition and require toxic fertilizers. Through crop rotation and animal grazing farm land that is currently dependent on mass fertilizer use could become sustainably fertile.

ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!!


There will be no further attacks on each other; discuss the topic not each other. There will be no more calling each other murderer either. Any further attacks on each other will be subject to action up to and including a post ban. There is no reason for these attacks and courtesy IS required.

Originally posted by JohnnyTHSeed
Also, land would become more fertile if it was not used to grow vast fields of monocultures that deplete the soil of nutrition and require toxic fertilizers. Through crop rotation and animal grazing farm land that is currently dependent on mass fertilizer use could become sustainably fertile.

Wrong. Land was not equally fertile before humans came along and it's not equally fertile now. Farmers often don't have a choice what they grow on their land and some land is only suitable for pastures.

nmenvirothon.com...

To learn the basics of it you can go there.

Originally posted by Nosred

Wrong. Land was not equally fertile before humans came along and it's not equally fertile now.

I never claimed land was equally fertile. Sustainable farming means growing things the land can naturally support. Particularly growing things that will increase the fertility of the land, or at least sustain the fertility. Growing huge lands of monocultures that depend on petroleum based fertilizers weakens the fertility of the land.

Farmers often don't have a choice what they grow on their land and some land is only suitable for pastures.

nmenvirothon.com...

To learn the basics of it you can go there.

On page 13 it discusses crop rotation based on quality or "Class" of the land.

Class I is the most fertile. However, soil is not static and can become infertile or more fertile based on farming practices.

Of course there are limits; sandy land will magically become not sandy no matter what you plant. But my point is large scale monoculture farming can degrade the quality of the land. Remember the Dust Bowl.

Land Management Systems

Land management systems involve both crop rotation and tillage systems. It is assumed that the land will be used
as intensively and as economically as possible. The tillage system involves no long-term soil modifications.

Continuous row crops. --Choose only for Class I land.

Sod or legume crop every 4th year. --Choose for Class II soils.

Sod or legume crop every 3rd year. --Choose for Class III soils that are not sandy.

Sod or legume crop every 2nd year. --Choose for sandy Class III soils and all Class IV soils.

- nmenvirothon.com...

Originally posted by Golf66
If you want to make an impact find a local producer and support his operation – it will cost you more but anything worth doing is worth doing right. Eating meat animals is not cruel; treating them with no respect and deplorable conditions that stress them out at the time of slaughter is…

I don't agree with industrialised, intensive farming practices, but I don't have any issue with eating meat from animals kept in the way that you describe, especially when they are fed well too. Who wants to eat meat that has been fed on some of the rubbish that some of these operations feed their livestock? An animal put under any stress, will naturally produce meat that is saturated in toxins. People seem to have so little respect for their own bodies, it is little wonder that they don't care what processes the food that they eat goes through before it ends up as that vacumn packed lump of red-stuff. Could be anything for all most people know...I prefer to know

Originally posted by ModernAcademia

Put very simply if you are able to eat beef after watching this then you are inhumane.

There are tons of animal cruelty videos about almost any meat product, so pretty much any meat that you eat makes you the animal, not the animal itself

This is mass cruelty at any angle that you look at it
And for those that say that you need meat, you do not NEED meat
If you say that you do then you do not understand what the word "need" means, you actually mean desire

Health?
Oh please, meat has so many links to diseases

I'm vegetarian for humanitarian reasons and I am extremely in shape

I don't care because I can no longer drink milk thanks to the femnazi controlled Academia(stress caused me to go from very, very,very,very slightly lactose intolerant to full blown lactose intolerance. So I avoid dairy. Easier to just cut it out of my diet then remember to pop a pill before eating).