Are you old enough to remember? Have you changed since it happened?

On May 13, 1985, in the twilight of the Cold War, residents of Philadelphia were ruthlessly bombed from the sky. The enemy government was conducting a political mission, but innocent inhabitants of that distinctly American city were caught up in the attack. After ten thousand rounds were fired at civilians over a period of two hours, a helicopter swooped in and dropped C-4 and Tovex explosives, destroying 65 houses. Five children were slaughtered in the strike.

Abolish the police

As for myself, it was my last year of highschool and I was living just across the river in New Jersey. Already in the Army Reserves and ready to die for "country". Today, I loath the country and a part of me looks forward to the day that the Federal Government is a thing of the past.

reply to post by NuroSlam


I wasnt even born yet, but I looked this up on and does this suprise me? No, not really.

en.wikipedia.org...

In 1981, MOVE relocated to a row house at 6221 Osage Avenue in the Cobbs Creek area of West Philadelphia. On May 13, 1985, allegedly responding to months of complaints by neighbors that MOVE members broadcast political messages by bullhorn at all hours and also about the health hazards posed by the piles of compost, the police department claimed that they attempted to clear the building.[8] The police lobbed tear gas canisters at the building and the fire department battered the roof of the house with two water cannons. The police fired 10,000 rounds at the house in two hours. A police helicopter then dropped a four-pound bomb made of C-4 plastic explosive and Tovex, a dynamite substitute, onto the roof of the house without any prior warning.

The resulting explosion caused the house to catch fire, igniting a massive blaze which eventually destroyed 65 houses.[2][9][10] Eleven people, including John Africa, five other adults and five children, died in the resulting fire.[11] The firefighters were stopped from putting out the fire based on allegations that firefighters were being shot at, a claim that was contested by the lone adult survivor Ramona Africa, who says that the firefighters had earlier battered the house with two deluge pumps when there was no fire.[9] Ramona Africa and one child, Birdie Africa, were the only survivors.

Yea, that makes me feel safe. Drop a bomb.......(im sorry, but why would the gov do this in a residential area?), then get 65 other houses caught in the blaze.......

Edit - Thanks for bringing this up OP, I had no idea this ever happened.

I remember this very very well. I grew up in Philadelphia and was about 12 or 13 years old at the time. I did not completely understand what was happening but I remember the outrage from those around me and the general public. Most of us from this area actually watched on TV in horror as they torched those buildings with the people still inside of it. You did not have to have any real understanding of the Constitution, Property Rights, Law, or Civil Rights to know how wrong it was.

reply to post by MrWendal


I remember watching it on the local news also, such a horrible thing to see for anyone, but now all these years later I wish I would have woken up sooner

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Originally posted by NuroSlam
reply to post by MrWendal

 

I remember watching it on the local news also, such a horrible thing to see for anyone, but now all these years later I wish I would have woken up sooner

It is funny to me to hear you say that because I feel much the same way. I only wish I was awake and was able to understand what I was actually witnessing. However, that was a different time for me at that age. I was young and police were always right, they were the "good guys"...or so we were taught.

I don't remember this being reported anywhere in the UK, so I 'Bing'd' and found no online British MSM/altM reference to this, it does not appear to have been reported. A bit odd really as Koresh/Jones et al were all reported over here.

A very telling news report once the explanation of the black national movement, and what the expect with any group that opposes government

I just can't remember ever hearing about this. I'm from the south, so it's puzzling. Maybe it was covered up and not allowed to be reported much out of the area.

Originally posted by maybee
I just can't remember ever hearing about this. I'm from the south, so it's puzzling.

Maybe it was covered up and not allowed to be reported much out of the area.

I completely forgot about it myself, never have I heard anyone mention it, I just happened to be reading my daily dose of lewrockwell.com and when I got to the article I felt like I was kicked in the gut, that block of houses burned all night long if I remember right.

Checking youtube and the songs listed on wikipedia and i had no idea that MOVE is what was ment in this


It's time to flow like the fluid in ya veins
If ya will it, I will spill it
And ya out just as quick as ya came
Not a silent one
But a defiant one
Never a normal one
'Cause I'm the bastard son
With the visions of the MOVE
Vocals not to soothe
But to ignite and put in flight
My sense of militance

Originally posted by maybee
I just can't remember ever hearing about this. I'm from the south, so it's puzzling.

Maybe it was covered up and not allowed to be reported much out of the area.

I really hate to play this card, but this is a fact for that time in the 80's.... you did not hear about this because it was a group of black people in a rundown ghetto section of Philadelphia.

I still remember all the jokes myself and the kids would make about Ramona Africa. Looking back now, I realize how well programmed I was. From memory Ramona Africa was some natural lover kind of lady who didnt believe in showering, smelled bad, did not shave under her arms who was supposed to be involved in the killing of a Police Officer. They whole MOVE group were bad people who wanted to attack the police and demand change through violent acts. That is what we were all told and the media pumped out that message hardcore. Now that is just from memory. I am almost 40 now and I was about 12 years old when the police dropped a bomb on their "compound" and burned down the entire city block. I love the use of the word "compound" when describing what happened here when the MOVE compound was in all reality nothing more than several homes which were occupied by MOVE members. Imagine if you will, that you and several of your friends all lived on the same block. You all had different homes, but lived right next door to one another. That would the "compound" that MOVE occupied.

I have managed to find an original ABC News report about it.

ABC News Nightline report

I was four years old when this happened and have just heard about it for the first time. Could someone (neutral) please tell me what MOVE was? Were they a Civil Rights group?

Regardless of what they were, what the police did was wrong, I just want to know HOW wrong they were? And who was this cop that got killed? Did this happen before or during MOVE was stormed?

I must say, I do take some of what Ms. Africa said with a small grain of salt, babies? really? But, on the other hand, I know that cops can be corrupt SOBs. Please clarify this for me?

reply to post by buni11687

AftermathMayor W. Wilson Goode soon appointed an investigative commission called the PSIC or MOVE commission. It issued its report on March 6, 1986. The report denounced the actions of the city government, stating that "Dropping a bomb on an occupied row house was unconscionable." No one from the city government was charged criminally.

In a 1996 civil suit in US federal court, a jury ordered the City of Philadelphia to pay $1.5 million to a survivor and relatives of two people killed in the incident. The jury found that the city used excessive force and violated the members' constitutional protection against unreasonable search and seizure. Philadelphia was given the sobriquet "The City that Bombed Itself."

On the 25th Anniversary of the 1985 Police bombing, the Philadelphia Inquirer created a detailed multimedia site containing retrospective articles, archived articles, videos, interviews, photos, and a timeline of the events.

MOVE or the MOVE Organization is a Philadelphia-based black liberation group founded by John Africa. MOVE was described by CNN as "a loose-knit, mostly black group whose members all adopted the surname Africa, advocated a "back-to-nature" lifestyle and preached against technology."

It's all on the wikipedia page.

My suggestion would be to check out the multimedia site from the Philadelphia Inquirer if you want to learn more.

I was a kid when that happened, but I honestly don't remember hearing about it. I think if I had, I would have been old enough to remember, and this post should have helped me recall those memories.

reply to post by teapot


I don't remember hearing anything about this either. If it was reported it must have been just a blip then gone. You mentioned hearing about Waco in the UK. Do you rmember anything being reported about Randy Weaver at Ruby Ridge around 1992? Anyone who believes there is any problem for the authorities to kill children they need to get out their history books. At Ruby Ridge weavers son and his dog was shot by a sniper outside the house. His wife waas shot by a sniper at the front door holding their baby. There were over 400 police and military called in to disarm one man.

Originally posted by sisgood
I was four years old when this happened and have just heard about it for the first time. Could someone (neutral) please tell me what MOVE was? Were they a Civil Rights group?

Regardless of what they were, what the police did was wrong, I just want to know HOW wrong they were? And who was this cop that got killed? Did this happen before or during MOVE was stormed?

I must say, I do take some of what Ms. Africa said with a small grain of salt, babies? really? But, on the other hand, I know that cops can be corrupt SOBs. Please clarify this for me?

1. MOVE is a black liberation group.

2. I am confused about your statement regarding "How wrong they were". I never knew there was differing degrees of wrong when it came to police killing civilians.

This is a multi part story. In 1978 the police attempted to evict MOVE from their home. This is when a police officer was shot and 9 members of MOVE were arrested and sentenced for the officers death. Regarding the 1978 incident this is what can be found on Wiki.

In 1978, an end was negotiated to an almost year-long standoff with police over orders to vacate the Powelton Village MOVE house. MOVE failed to relocate as required by a court order.[4] When police later attempted entry, Philadelphia police officer James J. Ramp was killed by a shot to the back of the head. The source of the bullet is controversial, as the scene of the crime was ultimately destroyed by further action from the police. MOVE representatives claim that he was facing the house at the time, which would therefore negate the notion that MOVE was responsible for his death. Seven other police officers, five firefighters, three MOVE members, and three bystanders were injured in an unrelated crossfire.[5] As a result, nine MOVE members were found guilty of third-degree murder in the shooting death of a police officer. Seven of the nine became eligible for parole in the spring of 2008, and all seven were denied parole.[6][7] Parole hearings now occur yearly.

The reason why wiki says the crime scene was destroyed by police is because after the shooting and arrest of MOVE members, they did get them evicted. Upon doing so, the city then had a bulldozer level the home. Which made little sense because it was a crime scene.

I love how you say you take Ramona Africa's word with a grain of salt because she says babies were killed. I have no idea why her making mention of this FACT would discredit her in anyway. Do you think that by dropping a bomb on a row home in a residential neighborhood would not result in the death of children? In any event, this bombing by police was done in 1985. 7 years after the shootout that took the life of a police officer. The one incident has nothing to do with the other, except in the mind of Police. Also from Wiki regarding the 1985 incident.

In 1981, MOVE relocated to a row house at 6221 Osage Avenue in the Cobbs Creek area of West Philadelphia. On May 13, 1985, allegedly responding to months of complaints by neighbors that MOVE members broadcast political messages by bullhorn at all hours and also about the health hazards posed by the piles of compost, the police department claimed that they attempted to clear the building.[8] The police lobbed tear gas canisters at the building and the fire department battered the roof of the house with two water cannons. The police fired 10,000 rounds at the house in two hours. A police helicopter then dropped a four-pound bomb made of C-4 plastic explosive and Tovex, a dynamite substitute, onto the roof of the house without any prior warning. The resulting explosion caused the house to catch fire, igniting a massive blaze which eventually destroyed 65 houses.[2][9][10] Eleven people, including John Africa, five other adults and five children, died in the resulting fire.[11] The firefighters were stopped from putting out the fire based on allegations that firefighters were being shot at, a claim that was contested by the lone adult survivor Ramona Africa, who says that the firefighters had earlier battered the house with two deluge pumps when there was no fire.[9] Ramona Africa and one child, Birdie Africa, were the only survivors.

Now one thing Wiki does not mention is why the police went after MOVE in 1985. The reason why this happened is because police got a search warrant for the MOVE house claiming there were weapons and explosives inside. The police then told all the neighbors to get one change of clothing and had them evacuate the area. When the Police were denied entry, they opened fire. Firing countless rounds at the home, then using water cannons, then eventually dropping a bomb on the building. There really is no debate at all about what happened and it's result. Yes babies were killed, 5 to be exact. Yes the police dropped a bomb on a row house. If you do not know what a row house is they look like this...




It is one home, next to another, next to another, next to another, going all the way down a city block. This type of housing is very popular in the city of Philadelphia. The problems caused by the city and police that day are still felt to this very day. The police bombed these row houses which then caused a fire and burned down 2 city blocks. Here is an article from 2010 that discusses the problems still facing the neighborhood.

Philly neighborhood still scarred by MOVE bombing

Great thread, would have been a little too young to remember this.
MrWendal, great additional info.
Sort of wonder if this event is downplayed because the people were black, this is ruby ridge bad! Are republicans so racist now that the government can only do wrong to white christians? This unsettles me on a few levels...

reply to post by redrose123


No, I don't remember Ruby Ridge and the Weavers being reported in the British MSM/slipstreamM/altM in 1992. I did a quick trawl of some British news websites and found a few references to the case included in reportage of the McVie trial in 2001/02.

Found this report about the growth of civilian militia in the US and the systemic labelling of them as violent and or racist radicals.

The truth behind America's 'civilian militias'
Armed and extremely... patriotic. Why a growing number of Americans are preparing for a war against their government.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

I grew up in the suburbs of Philly and I remember this event pretty well. I remember seeing the smoke in the sky and I remember my parents being riveted to the TV when this was going down. in fact I remember it too well. I had just moved out about a month prior and had gone to my parents that night to use the washer & dryer. I also remember that the residents of Philly and the surrounding areas including my parents did not think too highly of MOVE. they were feared by most people and from what I remember the city of Philadelphia gave them every oppurtunity to vacate those homes. MOVE played hardball, they were known for it. I was a just a young guy so I wasnt too familiar with the way TPTB operated other than the occasional run in with the law for underage drinking and/or suspicion of smoking a doobie. but in the same vein being somewhat wild and having that question authority mentality that we had you would think me and my crew would have identified somewhat with the MOVE rebels. we didn't. they weren't easy for anyone to identify with. they were even shunned by the black community. and when I say they were feared I mean they were feared the way we feared terrorists post 9 11. I think MOVE enjoyed the fact that they instilled fear. I think they liked to be intimidating. I think they enjoyed challenging the mayor and his team. one thing that isn't mentioned is their compound was within blocks of something called University City. it's a part of Philadelphia that encompasses the Univ of Penn, Drexel, HUP (one of the top ranked teaching hospitals in the world). even the college community found no common ground with the MOVE folk. they were determined to not be liked or embraced. I know what the city did was wrong. it was overkill. (obviously) but from what I remember MOVE was nothing to be proud of. I know the city and it's people breathed a collective sigh of relief once they were gone. I don't mean to sound cold as I know children died. but Ramona Africa to this day still does the local talk show on occasion and she is still as unappealing now as she was then. ~~just figured I'd throw in my 2 cents as a local....... (BTW, only my 2nd post so bear with me. I'm still learning the ropes.)