The Chinese are coming!

Hello ATS,

I’ve been recently contemplating writing this piece as an analogy for the occupation in Palestine, made easier to understand for some of my more stubborn, more mainstream media prone friends. I feel that perhaps it may help remove the blinders that they wear that help keep their vision focused away from the facts. I find it is difficult for people in the States to understand the conflict in the Middle East and the genocide perpetrated by the Israeli government and Israel Defense Forces (IDF) without making a comparison closer to home. In order to do that I will use two scenarios that may or may not help out.



I

There are two schools of thought on when the Chinese discovered America. One states that the Chinese discovered America in 1421, 70 years before Columbus but another says that the Chinese were exemplary sailors and navigators centuries before that time. In the year 499, a Chinese Buddhist monk, Hoei-Shin, having returned from a long sea voyage, told stories of a strange land with strange people 20,000 miles to the east. He named the place Fusang, after a plant described to be a sort of an Agave plant found in North America. Some even say that the Chinese settled North America some 1500 years ago and are the ancestors of or some mix in the Native Americans.

Some background on this for those interested.

For the sake of argument, let’s say this this is an accepted truth, the same as the Bible telling us that the Hebrews lived in modern day Israel two thousand years ago. Now let’s say that the Chinese are in dire straits and need to seek new land – they come over to California and claim it as their land with rights going back almost two millennia.

Over time they start bulldozing American suburban neighborhoods, pushing back the borders to what they consider the only defensible borders. (Why would you need to defend something this is rightfully yours and not gained by an occupation?) They even bring a Holy Book that describes their rights to this land, given to the Chinese by God. Europe and the rest of the world recognize the new borders and the right of the Chinese to take over California and other parts of the West Coast. United States of America, of course, protests but the states are soon labeled as “terrorist states” due to the inalienable rights of the Chinese to occupy those lands.

Americans that have been pushed into refugee camps and settlements due to losing their homes and their land cannot stand for this and are doing everything they can, giving their lives in exchange for the hope of returning their families and friends to the place where they and their ancestors were born and have lived for the last few hundreds of years.

In 50 years or so, New China has established good relations with countries in Europe and the markets and finances are flourishing. They are now unanimously on their side and would look at any change in status quo as a blow to their own economy.


As an American, do you find this occupation valid? Do you think you have the right to find this occupation illegal and fight to get your land back? How far would you go to get it done? Would you throw rocks across the border into what used to be your neighborhood or would you even perhaps form paramilitary groups and stage more advanced attacks on the occupiers in New China? Would you teach your kids that it was all fine and to move on, or would you tell them stories of what California used to be like and tell them that one day they would return to where their homes and schools used to be?



II

Mary is a southern gal, living in New York - but life has not been all that peachy. Her husband is an abusive alcoholic and every day is a day closer to having her life ripped away from her. In addition to that, this is not the first time a man has abused her in such manner and she is fed up.

She often thinks fondly of her home in Savannah and of her childhood home. After the latest episode, courtesy of her husband, she says - “Never again!”, packs up her belongings and heads back to Savannah.

Upon arrival she finds that a family now lives in the house, but thanks to some old family friends in high places she is given a part of the house and moves in. The same friends endorse it and support it publicly, welcoming her back to what used to be her home and her town, but the feelings are not mutually shared. The family that had made the house their home for the past three decades are infuriated, as are all the neighbors and good friends on the street. They are screaming injustice but the screams only fade away.

Over time Mary expands her possession of the house and taking room by room, she forces the family to remain in the basement, limiting when they can go get the much needed groceries and other supplies necessary for their survival.


Does what happened to Mary in New York, as unfortunate as it was, justify her behavior and make her the rightful resident of the house in Savannah? Does saying “Never again!” and standing up for herself give her the right to oppress others in order to make sure her safety is never endangered again?

If you were the family in the basement, what would you do?




Well, take it any way you like, but I hope you find the analogies useful. I’d just like to say that I have absolutely nada against the beautiful Jewish people of this world but only those that through political and financial gain continue to oppress and finance the genocide of another beautiful nation and their peoples. Much of this support comes from within our own country and it makes us equally responsible in the deaths of countless civilians and the destruction of their homes.

Until we all wake up and remove our own blinders, no peace will be achieved.


Khar


P.S. Who else thinks Israel Defense Forces (IDF) should be renamed to Israel Offense Forces (IOF)?

reply to post by Kharron


Except that the Chinese did not live here in the states for thousands of years and get booted out by religious hate and violence.

The Native Indians got whooped in that style of domination though and guess what? The tribes have sovereign lands within the US. There are conditions for things like health and safety, but by in large they can govern themselves and develop economically and socially as they wish. We don't bomb them and blow up their civilians at the local coffee shop. We, as a nation, looked at what we had done to a proud and free people and were regretful of our treatment of them. While we could not turn back time and undo our deeds, we could at least offer them protected land on which they could sustain their cultural traditions if they so chose.

This was the concept when Israel was formed. It was very tiny and without many natural resources but had one valuable resource which was the traditions that make Jews Jews.. The religious symbols of their roots.

After it was formed, even this small area was deemed unacceptable by Arab Islamic neighbors and wars were launched to destroy the "reservation". Fair enough, Islam took the land by force and believed it was exclusively theirs. I can dig it..

However, the Arabs were not only repelled but were beaten back to their homes and the land deemed valuable in preventing another attack was taken by the Israelis (as any nation would do int he face of aggression.)

I guess they made a mistake by attacking Israel.. sucks for them, frankly..

If they want to attack again I think they will lose MORE land.

We can argue the rational behind forming the "reservation" til we are blue in the face.

Israel is now an established nation and it's not going to just disappear, so the real question is, Do it's neighbors accept the new reality peacefully or do they continue to persue a policy of destruction?

No amount of crying is going to change the Israeli position on this so the ball is actually in the Arab/persian/islamic court.

All parties involved have made clear what the response will be to another war..

We are all just waiting for someone to make a move. Come to the table with real ideas and follow through on them or let the asswhooping commence...

That's the reality of it.

Both sides are really terrible at negotiating to be honest, but only one side is proposing genocide. If the israelis really wanted to kill the palistinians or any (or all) of their neighbors, they could.. They aren't expanding outside of the lands which were taken in the aftermath of the wars launched against them.

reply to post by Fiberx


Great Summary!

Your post is right on the money though I fear the anti-Israel crowd will be here soon to flood the thread.

Originally posted by infolurker
reply to post by Fiberx

 

Great Summary!
Your post is right on the money though I fear the anti-Israel crowd will be here soon to flood the thread.

I am in agreement with both statements.

great job of splainin thangs

in retrospect, there is no simple
solution at all.

Originally posted by boondock-saint


in retrospect, there is no simple
solution at all.

Salt and water. That's about it.
Pretty easy to separate as well, so one solution can have different outcomes!

reply to post by boondock-saint


You're right, its basically a two never ending sided story, and the people/person with the most money and power gets to do what ever they want. In this case it's the Jews.

Whether we like it or not,
possession is 9/10ths of the law.

Originally posted by boondock-saint

Originally posted by infolurker
reply to post by Fiberx

 

Great Summary!
Your post is right on the money though I fear the anti-Israel crowd will be here soon to flood the thread.

I am in agreement with both statements.

great job of splainin thangs

in retrospect, there is no simple
solution at all.

there is an answer. Send isreal to Africa, They have lots of room. They use to the heat anyways and they would be away from everyone else so they could be themselves. Pack them up and move to africa. Solution solved.

Right under our noses, American land for China to build factories on is already being sold and almost sold to China. This is part of America's plan to pay back some of the debt owed. The jobs created will not benefit Americans.

See earlier thread ATS thread...
for reference.

reply to post by Fiberx


Valid points as well. However, I did not write the piece with Native Americans in mind. That's a completely different issue that I don't with to get into in this thread. The pieces were intended to put us, Americans, into the perspective of the Palestinian whose land was taken.

I also agree that there is no simple solution, and I don't see in any way it being fair to just kick out Israel and return all the land to Palestinians - not gonna happen. However, Israel needs to admit to being the occupying force in a foreign country and work at reaching an agreement with the residents of the country by establishing a mutually beneficial solution. 1967 borders? Perhaps.

Whatever the solution may be, Israel needs to cease construction on illegal settlements and accept that they will never have peace as long as they keep pretending they're in their own country. Those homes they're building over belonged to someone else.

Yada, yada... we've all heard all these arguments before, so we won't add anything new to the discussion, but as I stated the stories were to illustrate the reality of the situation and put us Americans in someone else's shoes. What would you do if someone took over your home and your country because God gave them that right? Silly, huh?

Thanks for your comments everyone.

Khar

reply to post by Fiberx

However, the Arabs were not only repelled but were beaten back to their homes and the land deemed valuable in preventing another attack was taken by the Israelis (as any nation would do int he face of aggression.)

I guess they made a mistake by attacking Israel.. sucks for them, frankly..

Israel took the land in the war of 1967 where ISRAEL attacked the Arabs..
Why do pro-Israelis insist on lying ??
Are you all trying to rewrite history??

Your two scenarios are good ones, although the first one isn't a match and the translation doesn't work as Fiberx has pointed out.

On your second one, spot on. I would say, if the home was the in the possession of the 'friends in high places' and it was theirs to give, then the woman has full right too it. This is how Israel became a nation again. In war, the winners get to keep what they win. The area where the nation sits, was enemy territory. After the war, considering what happened to the Jews the decision was made for them to have the land. Winner takes, winner gives. Sucks for anyone living in the area, but that is how war is, it sucks.

I'm a Chinese first generation.......speak both Chinese and English......I'm good.
Plus there's nothing we can do about it aside from outright discriminating.

The Danes were in Canada and North America long before the Chinese or Colombus .Just saying

The argument that Israel should keep the land because it won it in battle is fine, except it legitimises all violent attacks on Israel to try to win it back again.

Unless there is a negotiated peace there will be nothing but war, since the only way to get something is to fight for it.

This is what Israel is proposing.

reply to post by Kharron


First off I think that both of the analogies you presented are great to put things in perspective for folks who may not as easily see things from another side. I also do think they both apply.

reply to post by Fiberx


I also know this is slightly off topic but I am only responding to your comment above. Respectfully, I am not sure you are grasping tha magnitude of the situation concerning what happened to the Native Americans and how awful the reservations are to this day.

My Grandmother was Overhill Tsalagi (Cherokee). My 5th great grandfather was also. He was Chief Dragging Canoe. He fought against the usurping of Cherokee land and refused to be removed from his people's land when they were forced through broken treatise, to move from their homes to Oklahoma. It is now known as the Trail of Tears. Nancy Ward was a great aunt and she fought, violently at times, to stop the oppression but in the end they all ended up on reservations, or dead, but that was just the beginning.

They were then fed rotting surplus meat only. The children were forcibly removed from the reservations and put into "Indian Schools". In these schools the Native children were "Anglo-cised". They were beaten for speaking their Native tongue. By the time these Indian Schools closed their doors, many tribes had lost all or most of their culture and language. Many tribes do not even remember their languages save for a few words.

In the early to mid 2000s myself and my brother in law (a Crow Native) spent time on the Blackwater Indian Reservation just minutes Southeast of metro Phoenix. We were there for years building homes for the people who most of which, still lived in mud and log shanties with tin rooves, no running water, and many w/o electricity.

The Blackwater is a desolate place in the middle of the desert. Many of the people there are hopeless. Alcohol is not permitted in Blackwater yet you could walk from one end of the reservation to the other without your feet ever touching the ground. You'd be walking on the glass and empty alcohol bottles that cover the res.

Lastly you mentioned that we don't bomb the Natives at their coffee shops but that is because they don't have any. You don't need to do these things because they are already beaten into the ground. I contend that you have the sides mixed up. It seems that the Native Americans would have more in common with the Palestinians than the Israelis. So with that said, shouldn't the Native Americans be the ones bombing coffee shops for your analogy to make sense?

Just my humble opinion. Thanks.