Bible found to be mistranslated

reply to post by keldas


Interesting read, I look forward to reading the interesting parts of the new bible if one gets printed.

reply to post by miniatus


Greeting, miniatus.

Just a quick note - 'elohim', the word usually translated god in the hebrew bible, has always been a plural form of 'el'. Usually defined in Strong's concordance as "mighty ones".

Hayah, the word in genesis most often translated as 'was' has in my opinion always been better translated as 'became' (as also allowed by Strong's per other usage), thus having allowed for an older earth and description of re-creation regardless. As far as the choice of 'seeding', I'll have to review further when I have a chance.

Be well, friend.

WOW! Just WOW!

I mean, if this is for real some of the passages are amazing.

"A period will come of great mourning, to prepare (the world) for the first ones.
And so nation will overtake nation and this kingdom upon that kingdom.
And so will exist a continuous clamor, which will continue to multiply. Hunger will increase,
this to break people apart and to project fear among them and this shall continue to grow worse.
v8 It is the heads of the world that all of this proceeds from, this continuous suffering.
v9 Then they will bind you with continuing trouble, to try and crush you. And these things will
exist to disgrace the steps upon the name to manifest."

and btw, this is IREPORT ie; anyone can submit whatever they want and call the article, "researchers prove bible has been grossly mistranslated" with the only "researchers" proving it being one group who has actually shown nothing of how they have 'proven it"...and wheres the peer reviews? This hasnt been published in any major journals. None of the academics who actually READ Hebrew and Aramaic are paying attention to this drivel...Why is that??

Somehow, because this was posted at a CNN website (which allows pseudo-scholar research) people are now submitting before this pathetic nonsense as if it were now an academically accepted fact....

First of all, and this is the most basic blunder in their contentions, there are 22 unique characters in Paleo-Hebrew - which matches the 22 of the Assyrian-square script. So, if this were true, how come one can match a psalm from the book of psalms from the Dead sea Scrolls with the same pslam in the 'assyrian' script? Its because theres no problem with how Hebrew is understood. It is absolutely inane that anyone could believe or consider it plausible that Hebrew became 'forgotten' when there is documented evidence of its use beyond 200 BCE (at the time of the writing of the septugaint)... Did the script change? Yes. The Talmud even acknowledges that. Does that mean the Jews "forgot" - even though their entire live revolved around their study of Torah - the basics of Hebrew grammar? Its ridiculous. This is nothing other than an attack - a very pseudo-scholarly one aimed at the uneducated internet audience - on the legitimacy of the bible.

reply to post by dontreally


perhaps you should pose these questions to them through their website... They may even appreciate the opportunity to answer your concerns... this is a theory, and a work in progress... I don't think there are many here who are taking this as gospel, but it is an interesting alternative theory... I appreciate you skepticism and criticism...

Originally posted by dontreally
and btw, this is IREPORT ie; anyone can submit whatever they want and call the article, "researchers prove bible has been grossly mistranslated" with the only "researchers" proving it being one group who has actually shown nothing of how they have 'proven it"...and wheres the peer reviews? This hasnt been published in any major journals. None of the academics who actually READ Hebrew and Aramaic are paying attention to this drivel...Why is that??

Somehow, because this was posted at a CNN website (which allows pseudo-scholar research) people are now submitting before this pathetic nonsense as if it were now an academically accepted fact....

First of all, and this is the most basic blunder in their contentions, there are 22 unique characters in Paleo-Hebrew - which matches the 22 of the Assyrian-square script. So, if this were true, how come one can match a psalm from the book of psalms from the Dead sea Scrolls with the same pslam in the 'assyrian' script? Its because theres no problem with how Hebrew is understood. It is absolutely inane that anyone could believe or consider it plausible that Hebrew became 'forgotten' when there is documented evidence of its use beyond 200 BCE (at the time of the writing of the septugaint)... Did the script change? Yes. The Talmud even acknowledges that. Does that mean the Jews "forgot" - even though their entire live revolved around their study of Torah - the basics of Hebrew grammar? Its ridiculous. This is nothing other than an attack - a very pseudo-scholarly one aimed at the uneducated internet audience - on the legitimacy of the bible.

I am a bit suspicous of peer review papers as we all know that many of them do not tell the truth because they are paid for their work and do not want to rock the boat. Just look at how much we have been lied to about the past and how many objects have been found by archeologists and been put aside in dusty store rooms because they do not fit in with the mainstreams idea of historical events.

Why don't you contact Chris Tyreman and put your questions to him if you think he is wrong. He is quite receptive to questions. He also had his web site up the www.thechronicleproject.org... long before it was posted on CNN.

I actually find the translations very interesting. It would from reading them make it appear that there where other beings of a higher intelligence 'aliens' or 'angels' or 'gods' who interacted with the first men -

>>v18 And so Ruler of all the supreme ones dispensed an anesthetic to the appointed
one, and he slept. And so a companion was refilled and altered, one that was an
exact copy of him. Then the flesh was closed up and healed.
v19 And so branched Ruler of all the supreme ones with the improved duplicate to
refill from Adam to the woman, who could support and respond to the Adam.
v20 And when he saw her the man declared,"This form is my cross section
framework (DNA)!? This frame manifested? And to embody, to embody taken to
manifest this form?"
And he called her "to pass to (woman)". As so that man was transferred to this
form.

Originally posted by Praetorius
reply to post by ExPostFacto

 

Hey friend, where are you finding the 10 commandments at? So far I've been looking under 'Books' and looks like they only get up to the story of Noah and the Ark.

Can you point me in the right direction? I'm at www.thechronicleproject.org

Thanks.

Edit:
Ah, nevermind. 'Of Interest'.

edit on 5/24/2011 by Praetorius because: (no reason given)

Click on the navigation on the left side where it says of interest and you will find the commandments at the top of the scroll down list, click on it and it will open up in acrobat-

www.thechronicleproject.org...

reply to post by keldas



Thanks much friend, but I already got it as per my edit in the quoted text. Much obliged, though - good looking out.

reply to post by Praetorius


I am looking forward to see the translation of the book of Revelations.

Originally posted by Variable
Did anyone check out their bios? The women don't look like Hebrew scholars to me, nor do the pictures have the look of ones done for a Hebrew scholar site do they? I mean come on. Look at the individual pics. I forgot all about the sites purpose looking at the pics.

Jennifer
Kimberly
Danielle

I think I may look in to being a Canadian Hebrew scholar. Just sayin...


V

I noticed this too. Posed pictures of the ladies with their 'assets' on display but no information on the academic assets that would qualify them to translate ancient hebrew. They mention hobbies like cross-stitch and carpentry but nothing that could confirm their intellectual capacity or abilities. I hardly see a serious, even amatuer scholar needing to share what random hobbies they have.

The website is extremely amatuerish too, which rings alarm bells in my book. We also have a source that is 'CNNireport', this is where anyone can contribute a story. As the caption above the photo of this group explains, the story is not 'vetted by CNN'. The translations on their website are dated 2009, could it be that the contributer of the story to ireport is one of the group who wants to bump their website?

I would love their interpretation of the bible to be true but unfortunately so far to just looks too good to be true.

reply to post by keldas


I'm not sure they can do much with it, honestly. Looks like this all deals pretty much entirely with hebrew, and I believe all of revelation in in koine greek...don't know if there's really any question as far as greek translation goes...the bit they had of Matthew on their site looks like it was just from a 14th-century hebrew version.

I'm questionable on most of this, but look forward to when I'll have more time to actually dig into it. Definitely neat so far, but I'm unsure as to the veracity and not getting too shook up by what I've seen of it yet. Seems to just provide some additional clarity and confirmation on few things for me, broaden application of others, and raise a few questions I'm still not quite sure as to the importance of.

We'll see what comes of it, though. Definitely like fresh air.

I really don't know why anyone is getting excited about this.

If you actually read their 'research' you will see that they are interpreting hebrew characters into 'concepts' of their choice....so they are doing what they accuse translators of the bible of doing in the past.

I'm not an expert (neither are the people who did the research, which they admit!) but after 5 mins on the website you can see that this translation method doesn't really add up.

Originally posted by dontreally
umm, right....so these are the people responsible for the chonricle project...

They really do look like satanists/vampires..Was it really wise of them to post a picture of themselves?

Anyways. How many people here can read Hebrew? And yet im reading comments like "Duh", and "obviously".... What gives you the right to think you know what qualifies as actual Hebrew?

This is obnoxiously inane and i am dumbfounded that CNN would propagate these claims.

I've studied and tried to perform original translations mainly because I don't trust a lot of the influences put into the current iterations.. what I hear them saying does make sense, they're also providing their research and "open sourcing" the project to make it collaborative .. they're being very transparent.. Making a judgment about their appearance and, likening them to satanists from how they look.. really does demonstrate your pre-determined opinions on the topic.

But then you'll look at my photo and probably think I'm Satan himself..

Originally posted by DrHammondStoat
I really don't know why anyone is getting excited about this.

If you actually read their 'research' you will see that they are interpreting hebrew characters into 'concepts' of their choice....so they are doing what they accuse translators of the bible of doing in the past.

I'm not an expert (neither are the people who did the research, which they admit!) but after 5 mins on the website you can see that this translation method doesn't really add up.

They work the way many linguists do when you are looking at a language the first time.. pattern recognition and many other techniques help build a base, but they also worked from what was known as well .. the method seems to add up to me on what information is out there SO FAR .. I'm more interested in this open source project they are forming to allow anyone to contribute to the project..

Originally posted by DrHammondStoat

Originally posted by Variable
Did anyone check out their bios? The women don't look like Hebrew scholars to me, nor do the pictures have the look of ones done for a Hebrew scholar site do they? I mean come on. Look at the individual pics. I forgot all about the sites purpose looking at the pics.

Jennifer
Kimberly
Danielle

I think I may look in to being a Canadian Hebrew scholar. Just sayin...


V

I noticed this too. Posed pictures of the ladies with their 'assets' on display but no information on the academic assets that would qualify them to translate ancient hebrew. They mention hobbies like cross-stitch and carpentry but nothing that could confirm their intellectual capacity or abilities. I hardly see a serious, even amatuer scholar needing to share what random hobbies they have.

The website is extremely amatuerish too, which rings alarm bells in my book. We also have a source that is 'CNNireport', this is where anyone can contribute a story. As the caption above the photo of this group explains, the story is not 'vetted by CNN'. The translations on their website are dated 2009, could it be that the contributer of the story to ireport is one of the group who wants to bump their website?

I would love their interpretation of the bible to be true but unfortunately so far to just looks too good to be true.

How does that matter? ... their work is dealing with ancient hebrew and their project that they focus the result on are biblical texts.. they don't claim to be members of the church.. though for that matter, I've seen some pretty interesting looking women coming and going from the church down the street.. tons of makeup, low cut shirts and tight pants.. clearly they are satanists infiltrating the place.

People are very judgemental and too quick to form conclusions on things like appearance.. it's a tip to how someone might be but it's hardly a conclusion..

For those of you who take the "Scholars of Ancient (biblical) Hebrew can't be wrong stance let me bring the following to your attention:

1. Biblical Hebrew is a VSO (verb subject object) language with a tense-aspect-mood system, which is still not precisely understood.

2. The Book of Daniel is said to be written in Aramaic and Hebrew. You can find evidence of that here. Please note that there is a footnote for the source ^ Vermes, Geza, The Complete Dead Sea Scrolls in English, London: Penguin, 1998. ISBN 0-14-024501-4

It would make sense if some of the lines are in Hebrew, and some are in Aramaic, but it will switch from Hebrew to Aramaic MID SENTENCE. You really have to ask yourself, why would that happen? You just don't switch languages in the middle of a sentence. That in itself should be a smoking gun indicating that there is something intrinsicly wrong with the commonly accepted practices of translation, or even another explanation

3. Aramaic is a "descendant language" of Hebrew. This is an accepted fact. However, when the Aramaic is transliterated into Hebrew letters, and a translation of that word has been made by The Chronicle Project the result is what I call a "close concept" in Aramaic.
Example #1 מן is translated by The Chronicle project as "to derive"; Aramaic translation:"begot"; biblical Hebrew :"man"
Example #2 לא is translated by The Chronicle Project as "to not"; Aramaic translation: "not"; biblical Hebrew "not, no, negative, do not"
Example #3 הוא is translated by The Chronicle Project as "to know as"; Aramaic translation: "was, be, exist"; Biblical Hebrew: "a pronoun, be, it, from"
These are only a few "simple" examples, there are many, many more, some of them pointing directly at purposeful mistranslation. I find it very disconcerting that the Aramaic word for his used only when referring to the Christ is the SAME word translated ANGEL (shining ones by The Chronicle Project) in the same language. There is a completely different word used when "his" belongs to someone else. (obviously I've done my OWN research).

4. There is a tradition in Judaism called Midrash. Basically it is using other texts (some of them non-Jewish) to answer the questions in the texts. The story of Lilith, Adam's "first" wife, which has links to an Egyptian Goddess, and a Greek goddess is an example. Why would scholars do this?

5. With the destruction of the First Temple (587 BCE) , by the Babylonians, the scribal schools and royal patronage of writers ended. This is commonly known as the Babylonian exile, and most likely where the original "corruption" began, as the language of the area became Greek.

And finally:
The 12th chapter of Daniel states (accepted translation):

1 “At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered. 2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 Those who are wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever. 4 But you, Daniel, roll up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge.”
5 Then I, Daniel, looked, and there before me stood two others, one on this bank of the river and one on the opposite bank. 6 One of them said to the man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, “How long will it be before these astonishing things are fulfilled?”

7 The man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, lifted his right hand and his left hand toward heaven, and I heard him swear by him who lives forever, saying, “It will be for a time, times and half a time.When the power of the holy people has been finally broken, all these things will be completed.”

8 I heard, but I did not understand. So I asked, “My lord, what will the outcome of all this be?”

9 He replied, “Go your way, Daniel, because the words are rolled up and sealed until the time of the end . 10 Many will be purified, made spotless and refined, but the wicked will continue to be wicked. None of the wicked will understand, but those who are wise will understand.

In the third year of the reign of Jehoiakim (BC 606), almost 20 prior to the fall of the first temple, Daniel and his friends Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah were among the young Jewish nobility carried off to Babylon.

Chew on that for a while.

reply to post by ThreeSistersofLoveandLigh


Can I just say a great big thanks for that post!! Well-informed and thought-provoking.

Now let's see someone else try it.... those who have so far glanced at it and said "Doesn't work because yada, yada..." Take the tools they have freely provided and DISPROVE the Chronicle Project if you know they are wrong.

reply to post by wearewatchingyouman


Thankyou for that, but i wont bother. This isnt even a feasible theory. They have even ignored the fact of their being 22 unique characters...

Who in the academic community is paying attention to this "theory" - which attempts to make aliens and technology the hidden or "correct" interpretation of the Hebrew language.

Listen. Do you read Hebrew? Does anyone here who has posted a positive reply to this 'chronicle project' read Hebrew? no... I read Hebrew and everything about this "project" wreaks of propaganda. It isnt a serious or legitimate effort to understand the Hebrew bible. Anyone who has knowledge of Hebrew Grammar can only shreek in utter confusion with these claims... They simply make no sense.

Does academia even acknowledge it? Do the secular experts at Hebrew university - the leading university in biblical research, even know about this? Its an internet gimmick. Food for Conspiracy enthusiasts. Not real, academic scholarly stuff because it ISNT based on any real research. There is no need to try to 'understand' the bible anew when it is understood perfectly fine already..

Sumerian cuneiform is a hierolyphic language; which means that it conveys ideas via hierolgphyics. Hebrew on the other hand is an articulated language. Each letter is a consonant. There are 22 letters in Paleo Hebrew - just as in biblical Hebrew. The letters of the tetragrammaton in Paleo - Hebrew and Assyrian Script (block script; a script which many scholars believe to have been the 'original' Hebrew scipt, seeing when working with tools it is infinitely more easier to etch into clay/stone in a sqaure rather then with curves..Suffice to say, the forms of the paleo-Hebrew script are more complicated than in block script)





Show a correspondence between letters. The first letter, the Yod, is pronounced as "ya"..The second and 4th letters, the Heh, as a guttoral, "huh" sound, and the Vav, as a "W" sound. Do you get how completely untenable this theory is? how is it then that correspondences can be made perfectly between the shape of the 'vav', as it appears in the tetragrammaton, with other appearances in the dead sea scrolls or other ancient texts which perfectly correspond with the modern block script? They create the same words; just in a different script. To challenge the Paleo-Hebrew script would be in essence to challenge the Modern, Assyrian script, because they are perfectly consonant with one another. this than challenges the whole of Hebrew Grammar.

It is insane! It is a #ing Ireport piece. Any person with a functioning brain can see how pseudo-intellectual this is.

Do you need a knowledge of Hebrew to know this? Not exactly. Simple common sense should suffice. You should also respect what someone who has a knowledge of Hebrew thinks about this,. I have never met anyone who knows Hebrew consider this theory pluasible. I am actually embarrassed because of its obvsious charletanry to ask a Rabbi or Hebrew scholar what they think about this.

Its like asking an astronomer if that moving orb in the sky is a UFO. Its an airplane. Basic common sense would show that. Likewise here, just explaining and knowing the basics of Hebrew grammar should disqualify this painfully stupid theory - which appeals to the gullible internet crowd, those 'ufo' and alien enthusiasts who read Sitchins but not Jung, or Campbell.

I will not say anything more about this. This is a stupid, idiotic, hashed up propaganda piece to delegitimize and sully the historical significance of the Hebrew Torah.

Also, can someone not look at these 6 weirdos responsible for this travesty and not be a tad confused about their appearance? Do they not look a bit dark? To me they look like Satanists and the type of people (having seen pictures and known such people, i can make this superficial statement) who revel in the dark, depressing, or chaotic side of life. Not one of them looks normal.

reply to post by dontreally


Well, I need to learn Hebrew.
Nothing more.

As I have stated here::

Previous understanding of ancient languages is based on the school of thought that Hebrew evolved from older languages such as Proto-Canaanite / Phoenecian and that those languages are considered by scholars a non-pictographic consonantal alphabet, or abjad.

However, their research is showing that it is actually an ideographic language, and not an abjad. Conventional Scholars will say that such a language does not exist, when the research of the Chronicle Project shows that there is a strong probability that it does, and that it is, and has always been Hebrew and the "languages" that it descended from.

It has also been stated that Hebrew was a "lost language" at the time of the Greek translations, and if in fact it was, the translations would prove to be massively incorrect as only a very basic understanding of the language would have existed at the time of the translation.

All I can really say is that you have to look at the research yourself, and make your own conclusions. Conventional Scholars have been proven to be wrong in the past. Remember, at one time people belived that the earth was the center of the universe, and to say different was considered Blasphemy. I believe that what the Chronicle Project is uncovering is proving conventional wisdom wrong again.

Keep in mind, that it is the blasphemers of the past that have changed our perceptions of the world, and many of them have been correct.

Letters as concepts = ideographic language.

An ideographic language is using a symbol (or glyph) to represent an idea or concept. String these together and you get a word.