can i get some help?

sitting in class the other day, a student made a comment about 9/11.

i remember two things he said:

1. there is no plane debris for flight 93.

2. it doesnt look like a plane crashed at the pentagon, because no identifiable plane parts were found.


obviously i didnt believe it, but during our first break i asked him where he got this info and he told me to watch
"loose change" on youtube.

now i am actually starting to think that we arent being told 100% the truth.

i really would like to do my research paper on this topic because its very interesting.

my question is,
in loose change, there is a qoute from some sort of "fire science" magazine that says something about temperature of melting steel.

does anyone know where i can find this "fire science" magazine? i'd like to use this quote in my paper, but quotes must be cited with a reference (ex; author, published year, title of magzine/book, and page number)

are there any other sources with references that you can reccomend? i need 4 references, they can be articles or books, but they must have authors.

i would like to talk about the collapse of steel buildings, the pentagon, and the reason why the government would allow this to happen ( personal agenda), and i would like to have quotes for each section if possible.

im very new to the whole alternative 911 theory, so i apologize in advance if this is the wrong place to ask.

reply to post by bizzy511


Plenty of threads on 9/11 in fact it has it's own forum..
Use the search function or browse the forum..

i did a search on 911 quotes and references, but was not able to find what i was looking for.
sorry if am hard to understand, English is my second language.

Try a search on youtube - there are many quotes and interviews on the topic you're inquiring about -
Here's one on molten metal/9-11:


www.youtube.com...

reply to post by bizzy511


The crap 'documentary' "Loose Change" is a complete load of bull.

Here....Screw Loose Change

This is annoying, because it is basically "Loose Change" (second edition....there were several more 'revisions' since) and is narrated by the same idiot who is the other half of "Dumb and Dumber", the team behind it...college loser Dylan Avery. It is annotated with text to debunk, throughout.

If you can't stand to listen to the unprofessional Mr. Avery and his "narration", here is a blog: screwloosechange.blogspot.com...


If you want, read about it on Wiki:

Wiki "Loose Change"

Jump to: Criticism

reply to post by bizzy511


Hi.

Well here are some good leads. I think you will have a fascinating time researching this and it is healthy research to do.

Hope this helps. Good luck with your research...

911review.com...

Reply to post by weedwhacker

crap, bull, idiot, looser.

i guess those are the superior arguments nowadays eh

you are actually sharing more information about yourself than whatever happened in 9 11


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by AnotherYOU


Well...."Loose Change" has been around for about 5 years, now. There are no better terms to describe that pile of junk.

Strong words cannot fully compare to the vile regard that most people have for it, and its makers. Sadly, it is still infecting young minds, to this day.....

reply to post by Revolution9


That link?

The first page, and "melting" steel, is disingenuous at best. Looks as if it is defaming many valid claims, and attributing false ones to some.

The notion of "melting" steel is a red-herring put forward by many in the so-called "truth" movement, as a way to discredit others with the rational explanations.

Also, you will find (and OP) within this so-called "movement" a huge number of rifts and disagreements, between themselves and their various factions.

Actually, this is quite typical of the most paranoid types of 'conspiracy' beliefs, and how they are derived, and mutate. Some "truth" movement types, do, also, accuse the more fringe claimants of being intentional "dis-info agents..."

They are eating themselves alive.....

reply to post by weedwhacker

Strong words cannot fully compare to the vile regard that most people have for it, and its makers. Sadly, it is still infecting young minds, to this day.....

Most people Weed ??

Obviously you have the poll results..
Care to share them??

Reply to post by weedwhacker

i agree to some extent.

but why the ridicule and ad hominems? that is not denying ignorance, infact that just feeds it.

constructive criticism goes a lot further, your attitude just adds to the tension and helps to further separate both sides of the argument.

you are fueling the fire you wish to put out.

its been ten years, too long for such strong words about what was a literal pile of junk.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by bizzy511

I would not trust other posters opinions or for that matter any individual to be my soul source for information about 911.
I recommend that you should read the NIST Report and the 911 Commission Report first. Once you have read their report. I strongly recommend two major websites where experts have examined the government claims and have applied simple science to the (OS) official story of 911.

Here are the two websites that I recommend, read them yourself and draw your own conclusions.
www.ae911truth.org...
www.pilotsfor911truth.org...
Read what these experts are saying and what they support.

'9/11 Blueprint for Truth' video.google.com...# has been the best scientific explanation I have yet seen on how the building collapsed. I have also made my own report of some of the main problems in the story of events that day at www.kwakakev.com... . There is heaps out on the Internet about this, some good, some bad and some ugly. It is great to see the younger generation thinking for themselves and questioning, keep it up buddy.

reply to post by bizzy511


Hi Bizzy,
I find it interesting, even taking into account your recent discovery of abovetopsecret, that you've been able to isolate yourself completely from alternative theories of what happened on September 11th, and the motivations of our government in general. You mentioned English is not your first language, and you mentioned your age as 22. I could almost see these two factors as possible explanations, but I'm really just curious: What is your method of completely shutting your self off from news and information so effectively? I feel like at the very least most people have seen the media's responses to various alternative theories, which has familiarized most of the developed world with their existence, even if they don;t support them. I would give anything not to know certain things that I know, but I don't understand how it's possible in this day and age, given that you posses enough knowledge of the internet to a) be enrolled in college b)register an account on a website and c) post to said website, that you've never entertained or even so much as heard of the viewpoint that the US government is not being 100% honest with you? I feel compelled to ask, because I am in college my self, but even school textbooks really aren't bothering to hide the truth about our government and it's purpose anymore. Writing any college history paper about our government should require enough research to see that people lie about things, a lot. Please understand, I mean no offense. I'm asking how you have maintained such innocence through the last few years of information overload, as I am looking to get away from this madness myself, and wherever you are from sounds like the perfect spot for me to move to. Thanks!

Originally posted by bizzy511

1. there is no plane debris for flight 93. 2. it doesnt look like a plane crashed at the pentagon, because no identifiable plane parts were found.

The titanium blade engines of the aircraft were never found,
smaller engines were put there as dummy evidence though.

All other jet engine wrecks not in a large body of water recover
the engines largely intact, the melting point of titanium is a tad higher.

The many video tapes from the nearby non governmental buildings
such as hotels and gas stations was seized and they refuse to
release it for the public to view it.

The same deal on video tapes was done for the Oklahoma City bombing.

now i am actually starting to think that we arent being told 100% the truth.

That seems to be a recurring theme...

33 Conspiracies that turned out to be true

i would like to talk about the collapse of steel buildings, the pentagon, and the reason why the government would allow this to happen ( personal agenda), and i would like to have quotes for each section if possible.

Through history some men have used war to make themselves very rich, they
use the political systems of various nations to get what they want so their
business of war makes them rich thru the military industrial complex.

Some ppl involved in it that warned of it:

President Eisenhower's farewell address - The dark warning



The business plot - a warning from a former Marine Corp general
[from the film "The Corporation"]



War is a racket - same general from above - dramatic recreation



The same families that have a major stake in a large portion of the
military industrial complex are for the most part the same families
that take part in financial warfare thru our federal reserve, the IMF,
and the World Bank.

More on their financial warfare here: [ Confessions of an Economic Hitman]





Most ppl have no idea the level of evil that controls our countries
by proxy thru puppet politicians.

My warning to all is to prepare for some very dark days ahead,
and know how to live in the wilderness and hide VERY well.

Good Luck to all the good ppl !!!

Originally posted by AnotherYOU
Reply to post by weedwhacker

 

but why the ridicule and ad hominems? that is not denying ignorance, infact that just feeds it.

constructive criticism goes a lot further, your attitude just adds to the tension and helps to further separate both sides of the argument.

you are fueling the fire you wish to put out.

its been ten years, too long for such strong words about what was a literal pile of junk.

 

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

 

Weedwhacker is part of the system, the dog doesn't bite the hand the feeds it.

He ignores documentaries like 9/11 press for truth that stand to this day
on their evidence as irrefutable.

The zealot will never consider evidence accepted by millions as fact, even
if they are scientists, simply because they are a zealot and thus insane.

reply to post by bizzy511


As a welder by trade I see different manuals about proper cutting procedures. If I wer you I would look for a torch cutting manual and maby some metal spec sheets, because different Lb/Ft materials take longer to melt than others..example ..The pierce time to penitrate 1/8" steal vs 1/4' is different due to thickness, and if heat treated even longer..I would also try mabe a plasma burn table suply store and ask for some manuals or something like that. You can find these in any weld supply store.

reply to post by bizzy511


Flight 93

sites.google.com...

Pentagon

sites.google.com...

Notice plenty of aircraft debris

Jet engine - Flight 93



Fuselage section



Interior insulation





Pentagon

Plenty of debris here







Aircraft part with serial number



Jet engine at Pentagon

www.aerospaceweb.org...

reply to post by bizzy511

my question is,
in loose change, there is a qoute from some sort of "fire science" magazine that says something about temperature of melting steel.

does anyone know where i can find this "fire science" magazine? i'd like to use this quote in my paper, but quotes must be cited with a reference (ex; author, published year, title of magzine/book, and page number)

Fire service magazine is FIRE ENGINEERING Jan 2002 where editor Bill Manning complains about
lack of emphasis on construction deficencies of WTC

Specific -problems with fire proofing on the steel

The steel did not melt but as it is heated will begin to soften and lose sterngth

at 1000 F (550 C) steel retains only 90 % original strength

1100 F (600 C) steel has 75 %

1200 F (650 C) only 50 %

The weaken steel will deform and begin to yield

reply to post by thedman

Notice plenty of aircraft debris
Jet engine - Flight 93

Most ATSer are not interested in rehashing the OS lies.
Those photos were debated years ago and proved absolutely nothing.
As far as your airplane photos they could have been taken anywhere in the world at any time.
Your photos are not “proof” to anything they are probably photos of airplane bone yard debris, nothing more.

As for what the fire fighters have to say, I recommend these firemen who have the guts to speak out against their FBI gag orders. Not interested in people who continue to parrot the OS lies to save their careers.
firefightersfor911truth.org...