The Nehustan and the Pyramids

Hello. I have got to make this snappy, so here goes:

Moses' Rod: The Device

(1)

Working the Device
The engineers developed a technology which could manipulate and re-balance natural earth energies. It functioned with the boost of powerful cosmic energies during times of grand cosmic alignment.

-Earth Protection System -gizageomatrix.com

(2)

What was it good/bad for?
What it contained was, in a nutshell, the power supply of the Great Pyramid, originally housed in the granite “sarcophagus” (nobody buried in it) inside the “King’s Chamber”. Since God gave Moses the exact dimensions, and we know the inside and outside dimensions of the granite sarcophagus, which is still in Egypt today, earning hard cash for the tourism industry, we know there is a perfect fit here. They could never steal the sarcophagus as it won’t fit through the door – the chamber housing the “sarcophagus” was built around it.

-Has the Ark of the Covenant Been Found? -viewzone.com

(3)

OUTER DIMENSIONS:
Length = 2278 mm = 89.68 in. = 7.47 ft.
Width = 977 mm = 38.46 in. = 3.2 ft.
Height = 1048 mm = 41.26 in. = 3.4 ft.
INNER DIMENSIONS :
Length = 1977 mm =77.83 in. = 6.49 ft.
Width = 677 mm = 26.65 in. = 2.22 ft.
Depth = 872 mm = 34.33 in. = 2.86 ft.

-"Dimensions of the Ark (Biblical account — Exodus)

(4)

Length = 2.5 cubits = 1600 mm = 62.5 in. = 5.2 ft.
Width = 1.5 cubits = 950 mm = 37.5 in = 3.1 ft.
Height = 1.5 cubits = 950 mm = 3.1 ft. = 37.5 in.

-The Granite Coffer -rickrichards.com

(5)

Moses was portrayed as being brought up in the royal family but then he is cast out. No person fits this situation in the royal court of Seti. However, there was a Prince Tuthmose, the eldest son of pharaoh Amenhotep III, who mysteriously disappears from all records. Could he have been the factual origin of the Biblical character Moses?

-www.king-tut.org.uk...

(6)

It was not until Moses stretched out his hand over the sea, with the rod in it, that Yahweh performed His mighty miracle.

(7)

The rod had four specific names whereby it was called, #1 the Rod of Moses, #2 the Rod of Elohim, #3 the Rod of Aaron and #4 the rod of Levi.

-The Parable of the Rod of Moses -members.cox.net/thomasahobbs

(8)

And the Lord said unto Moses, Bring Aaron's rod again before the testimony, to be kept for a token.

-Numbers 17:10

(9)

For there was a tabernacle made: the first, wherein was the candlesticks, and the table, and the shew-bread, which is called the sanctuary: and after the second veil, the tabernacle, which is called the Holiest of all; which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant, overlaid round about with gold; wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod, that budded, and the tables of the covenant; and over it the cherubim of glory, shadowing the mercy seat; of which we cannot now speak particularly.

-Hebrews 9:2-5

Here is my thesis: The Device (1) (that powered the Great Pyramid) in the Granite Coffer, or "sarcophagus" (3) (of the Great Pyramid), was taken by Moses/Thutmose (5) in the form of a miraculous rod (6) and put (8,9) in the ark (4).

SeraphNB

Here is my thesis: The Device that powered the Great Pyramid lay in the Granite Coffer, or "sarcophagus" of the Great Pyramid, and it was taken by Moses/Thutmose in the form of a miraculous rod and put in the ark.

I believe that the Nehushtan, also known as the Staff of Moses, the Rod of Aaron, the Caduceus, the Rod of Asclepius and the Karykeion, was the true power source of the Great Pyramids. This rod was responsible for the parting of the Red Sea, the parting of the Jordan and the collapse of the Walls of Jericho, among several other Old Testament miracles. This staff was rescued from the Temple of Solomon when Babylon conquered Israel. It found its way to England through the Lost Tribes of Israel and was fashioned into the sword Excalibur. This staff, when returned to the Great Pyramid, would bring the entire global menhir energy grid back to life by channeling the gravitoelectric power (also known as 'ley lines') traveling around the world through energy conducting underground aquifers.
I am still in the process of polishing my hypothesis, so consequent refineries (and thus additional threads) will be published here.

Peace,
SeraphNB

reply to post by seraphnb


Blessings of the most high for the nice OP, but I have a question. If the staff of Moses is not returned, in your opinion what is our fate?

Originally posted by My.mind.is.mine
reply to post by seraphnb

 

If the staff of Moses is not returned, in your opinion what is our fate?

Hmm . . .
I personally believe that doomsday dates such as March 21st, 2011 or December 21st, 2012 (something with those 21sts ) are absolute bunk. As Matthew 24:36 says, "No one knows the day or hour when these things will happen, not even the angels in heaven or the Son himself."
However, I do believe that, if and when an asteroid/comet/meteor/other planet/solar flare/et cetera comes in the inevitable future, Earth's failing ionosphere will definitely not help in burning up the cosmic shrapnel or minimizing the effects of the radiation.

Peace,
SeraphNB

reply to post by seraphnb


The Great Pyramids and the Temples of Solomon have great similarities in design. For instance, see these threads by Lastday Prophet:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Although the OP is sort of a religous Bible-quoting-to-death maniac, his hypothesis is revelant. He believes that the Great Pyramids were the Temples of Solomon. I believe that the Great Pyramids were similar to the simplified layout of the Temples for one reason:
God had done this before.

When you go through history- especially in mythologies and ancient religions- you will see patterns. This book is an example of one God-given prophecy relayed throughout mankind:
www.jrbooksonline.com...
The title of the book is extremely misleading, for it really examines 35 crucified mythological figures. From Odin to Osiris to Krishna, there are several figures whose lives resemble that of Jesus Christ. How can this be explaned? Was Jesus, too, a mythical figure, and Christianity just a fable?

Nay, I say to you. Did the Israelite prophets not deliver extremely accurate predictions of the live of the Saviour of Christianity? I believe that God also delivered such prophecies to prophets and priests of other nations and cultures. However, instead of taking the revelations as future events foretold, they were accepted as the stories of past dieties, named Odin, and Krishna, and Osiris. These gods were identified with pre-existing mythological, purely fictional characters (or perhaps the fierce warriors, kings and priests of long-past generations).

Cannot the same be true for the Pyramids? Maybe, Khufu or another great pharaoh of the Ancient Dynasties was following instructions told to him by God. He built the pyramids to house the Granite Coffer that carried the Rod.

The sarcophagus is slightly larger than the Ascending Passage, which indicates that it must have been placed in the Chamber before the roof was put in place. Unlike the fine masonry of the walls of the Chamber, the sarcophagus is roughly finished, with saw marks visible in several places. This is in contrast with the finely finished and decorated sarcophagi found in other pyramids of the same period.

en.wikipedia.org...

This shows that the "sarcophagus" was the central point of the pyramid. It was so old, its decorations were almost indistinguishable from wear and tear. There was clearly a lot of effort put into getting the "roughly finished" box into the King's Chamber.
The King's Chamber, which corresponds to the Holy of Holies in Solomon's Temple, had similar dimensions to the later construction, and its purpose was to house the box that carried the Staff.

Let the coincidences abound!

SeraphNB

reply to post by seraphnb


Moses' staff did not just summon the plagues, part the Red Sea and turn into a snake, it also was responsible for Petra.

The Shiq is the two-kilometer (2200- yard) chasm leading into Petra. The Shiq is a great cleft in the earth, formed in the hazy depths of the geological past by the same earthquake activity that has plagued the area ever since. Its narrow, winding route through the lofty cliffs which protect the site on the east remains one of the great experiences for the visitor today, and is probably responsible for the belief that it was here that Moses struck the rock to secure water for his wandering people after the flight from Egypt - the first of the Moses-linked stories now associated with the whole Petra Basin. The wadi (valley) that bisects the ancient city center was dutifully dubbed Wadi Musa (Valley of Moses), a name first encountered in the records of the Crusaders.

almashriq.hiof.no...

What is the link to the staff?
Moses struck the rock with his rod, summoning water and creating the Shiq, and opening the chances for Petra to settle.
However, the legends do not stop there.

Khaznat al-Faroun means "the Treasury of the Pharaoh"- and a myth goes with the name: The Pharaoh of Exodus, having mobilized his forces to recapture the fleeing Hebrews, had reached Petra - after his slight embarrassment at the Red Sea. But by then the weight of his treasury, thoughtfully carried along, had begun to slow the progress of his army. As a result, the story goes, the Khaznat al-Faroun was created, by magic, and the Pharaoh's wealth deposited in the urn-like decoration on its top.

Why was the Pharaoh chasing Moses anyway? He had realized that Thutmose was carrying the Staff, the power source of the Great Pyramids and pride of Egypt!

SeraphNB

reply to post by seraphnb


i have been in the kings chamber and when i looked into the sarcophagus i thought it was half filled with water
because it appeared to be shimmering , rather like the heat haze you can see on the road in a hot summers day
this lasted for maybe two minutes and then stopped .
the second time i visited the chamber a year later i did not experience this effect .
i have no explanation as to why or what this effect was , but the effect will stay with me for ever .

i wonder if any of our members that have visited the chamber have experienced the same ?

moses my ass

listen...mosis was not a name...it was a title....the newkingdom (18 dynasty) hyksosis pharaohs had mosis in one of their five titles...ie tuhtMOSIS, tuthmosis II, tuthmosis III...etc.

secoundly the upper egyptians built the pyramids, the thinite (abydos) kings of memphis... when the 5th dynasty started (sun kings) lower egyptians and the levant grew, but theyr pyramids were crap...as they no longer had upper egyptians workforce and theyr granite etc.(divisions in state based on religion)


THE ONLY ACTUAL ROD OF POWER KNOWN WAS THE MACEHEAD, ( crystillised limestone, that amplifies the pharaohs "powers")...to see one look at a triad picture of menkaure, the one with the seated hathor figure.
held by the kings of upper egypt.

to add to your topic:
mosis was a title given to a kings son...AN ADOPTED SON....he tricked the pharaoh into giving the covenant preisthood and theyr followers and workers land...im not certain on the story, but it goes something like this
offered a king a corcubine
turns out she was married
at that time, law was that adultury was met by death...even the pharaoh
pharaoh agreed to give her husband...a preist...land...!!
...now you can connect the dots on why thats relevant


peace

reply to post by thePharaoh


that is interesting. any links so that we can follow up? you had to have heard the story somewhere, right?

Originally posted by thePharaoh
listen...mosis was not a name...it was a title....the newkingdom (18 dynasty) hyksosis pharaohs had mosis in one of their five titles...ie tuhtMOSIS, tuthmosis II, tuthmosis III...etc.

Uhh . . . Yeah. I kind of thought that I had covered that. Maybe I did not.

secoundly the upper egyptians built the pyramids, the thinite (abydos) kings of memphis... when the 5th dynasty started (sun kings) lower egyptians and the levant grew, but theyr pyramids were crap...as they no longer had upper egyptians workforce and theyr granite etc.(divisions in state based on religion)

Cool. That means nothing to me. I realize that the egyptians lacking in the power of God would not be able to make such miraculous structures.

THE ONLY ACTUAL ROD OF POWER KNOWN WAS THE MACEHEAD, ( crystillised limestone, that amplifies the pharaohs "powers")...to see one look at a triad picture of menkaure, the one with the seated hathor figure.held by the kings of upper egypt.

I had not heard of this MaceHead before. However, I cannot find any good information about it online. You said to see it in this picture:
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b1b581e6672c.jpg[/atsimg]
Is this MaceHead you speak of featured above the head of the third person?

to add to your topic:
mosis was a title given to a kings son...AN ADOPTED SON....he tricked the pharaoh into giving the covenant preisthood and theyr followers and workers land...im not certain on the story, but it goes something like this
offered a king a corcubine
turns out she was married
at that time, law was that adultury was met by death...even the pharaoh
pharaoh agreed to give her husband...a preist...land...!!
...now you can connect the dots on why thats relevant

Is this the story of Abraham? I think it really went something like this:

1: And Abraham journeyed from thence toward the south country, and dwelled between Kadesh and Shur, and sojourned in Gerar.
2: And Abraham said of Sarah his wife, She is my sister: and Abimelech king of Gerar sent, and took Sarah.
3: But God came to Abimelech in a dream by night, and said to him, Behold, thou art but a dead man, for the woman which thou hast taken; for she is a man's wife.
4: But Abimelech had not come near her: and he said, Lord, wilt thou slay also a righteous nation?
5: Said he not unto me, She is my sister? and she, even she herself said, He is my brother: in the integrity of my heart and innocency of my hands have I done this.
6: And God said unto him in a dream, Yea, I know that thou didst this in the integrity of thy heart; for I also withheld thee from sinning against me: therefore suffered I thee not to touch her.
7: Now therefore restore the man his wife; for he is a prophet, and he shall pray for thee, and thou shalt live: and if thou restore her not, know thou that thou shalt surely die, thou, and all that are thine.
8: Therefore Abimelech rose early in the morning, and called all his servants, and told all these things in their ears: and the men were sore afraid.
9: Then Abimelech called Abraham, and said unto him, What hast thou done unto us? and what have I offended thee, that thou hast brought on me and on my kingdom a great sin? thou hast done deeds unto me that ought not to be done.
10: And Abimelech said unto Abraham, What sawest thou, that thou hast done this thing?
11: And Abraham said, Because I thought, Surely the fear of God is not in this place; and they will slay me for my wife's sake.
12: And yet indeed she is my sister; she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife.
13: And it came to pass, when God caused me to wander from my father's house, that I said unto her, This is thy kindness which thou shalt shew unto me; at every place whither we shall come, say of me, He is my brother.
14: And Abimelech took sheep, and oxen, and menservants, and womenservants, and gave them unto Abraham, and restored him Sarah his wife.
15: And Abimelech said, Behold, my land is before thee: dwell where it pleaseth thee.

Genesis 20:1-15

To make a long story short, Abraham (who was Moses' great-great-great-great-grandfather) told the King (not of Egypt) that his wife was his sister. The King got down and dirty with Abraham's wife/sister. Then, God told the King that the sister was also Abraham's wife, and that now he would be punished for adultery. However, Abraham forgave the King, and, in return, the King told Abraham that he could live anywhere on the King's lands.
The whole story has little relevance.

Peace,
SeraphNB

reply to post by thePharaoh


would love to learn more about this macehead you are referring to...

the only ones i am aware of were those related to King Narmer and the Scorpion King...are these what you are referring to?

i'm also curious as to your reasoning that these were the only rods of power?

rods have been used throughout history in the form of wands, staffs, batons, etc...and length was usually significant particularly when the overall length is divisible by the number 5...hiking staffs made at say, 50 or 60 inches usually provide the carrier with additional energy as they hike versus staffs made at say, 52 or 64 inches

the egyptians obviously held a high regard for numbers and measurements so the lengths should have significance depending on the rod's purpose

reply to post by seraphnb


great info...

curious...have you ever come across any information regarding specific materials used for the construction of any rods? of particular interest would be the specific crystals/gems used and the material of the rod itself including measurements...many were of wood or bronze...

i find it very interesting that so much quartz(or forms of) was used...

at the very apex of the pyramids of giza, one archaeologist formed a crude leyden jar using wet newspaper wrapped around an open bottle of wine...when he stood at the apex with the device, it began shooting sparks from the bottle

all forms of quartz have piezo-electric capabilties...

A 1 cm cube of quartz with 500 lb (2 kN) of correctly applied pressure upon it, can produce 12,500 V of electricity.

reply to post by teknalchemist


According to the general public, the Staff of Moses was made of sapphire (a fact which I seriously doubt). I believe that the piazo-electric effect, which is strictly electrical, is just the tip of the iceberg. The story goes that, when the staff/Ark is used with the Pyramids, Earth's gravity will momentarily increase greatly, causing more air pressure and making Menhir around the world (Stonehenge, Chichen Itza, et cetera) spontaneously empty yottahertz of energy into the weakening ionosphere (through the piazo-electric effect). On this day, Auroras (like the ones seen at the poles) would dance around the world, fufilling several ancient prophecies.
For more speculation about what the Nehustan is made of, see my previous thread at:
www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread704549/pg1

Peace,
SeraphNB

i wonder if any of the people that are posting on here have ever been there ?

reply to post by seraphnb

oh,i didnt realise that story was from the bible...still when the roman empire started, the days jesus was born...coincides with the fall of the pharaoh...

anyway,
that above isnt the macehead, thats a glyph of her title....also what they have in their hands are "rods of Ra", ones is + and one is -.....thats alll we know....but the macehead is the same one as narmer and scorpion...here menkaure holds one....it is SOLID CRYSTALIZED LIMESTONE, QUARTZ...quartz is used to amplify energy, ask the watch makers who patented this....
its in his right hand

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/dc368288938f.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/aa1b521a0fcc.jpg[/atsimg]

Originally posted by seraphnb
reply to post by teknalchemist

 

According to the general public, the Staff of Moses was made of sapphire (a fact which I seriously doubt). I believe that the piazo-electric effect, which is strictly electrical, is just the tip of the iceberg. The story goes that, when the staff/Ark is used with the Pyramids, Earth's gravity will momentarily increase greatly, causing more air pressure and making Menhir around the world (Stonehenge, Chichen Itza, et cetera) spontaneously empty yottahertz of energy into the weakening ionosphere (through the piazo-electric effect). On this day, Auroras (like the ones seen at the poles) would dance around the world, fufilling several ancient prophecies.
For more speculation about what the Nehustan is made of, see my previous thread at:
www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread704549/pg1

Peace,
SeraphNB

ok this is what i read in the numerous ancient texts....egyptian only.

" when the milkyway hugs the northern poles, nut will come down and meet geb....."

nut is the sky...and geb is the earth....they also say she comes down to meet him each night, actuallly that is what they thought night was.


also..cmon, mosis this mosis that....his staff wasnt made out of sapphire.
ok..if mosis had a staff...(which looks like a dried snake)...didnt jesus have one that gives the holder power...

i think it is all myth taken from egypt......
ever wonder why the burniing bush doesnt reveal its name...god never revealed his name to his prophets?
ever wonder why mosis never went into "isreal"?....notice how all the pharaohs men died, but the pharaoh lived...dodgy.....notice that the scientific preists egypt had in helipolis, disappeared during these times? ever wonder why the so called "great" kingdom of egypt didnt persue these people, and why did the pharaoh change his mind?

well, simply.....the army was forming in the south, and by the time they travelled north, these people "walked" to sinai....thats about a weeks worth.....i heard that it was because they killed ramsees2 son, nefertari his wife (from the south) demanded that the king avenge the son....he didnt, he was afraid of their god...nefertari who was from the great house- per aa (pharaoh)....called her own forces from the south to persue these covenant preists and their follwers....by the time her army arrived to greet ramsees, he escorted them to the evacuees....then you have your exodus story....ITS ALL EGYPTIAN...EVERYTHING.

Originally posted by thePharaoh

ok..if mosis had a staff...(which looks like a dried snake)...didnt jesus have one that gives the holder power...

i think it is all myth taken from egypt......
ever wonder why the burniing bush doesnt reveal its name...god never revealed his name to his prophets?
ever wonder why mosis never went into "isreal"?....notice how all the pharaohs men died, but the pharaoh lived...dodgy.....notice that the scientific preists egypt had in helipolis, disappeared during these times? ever wonder why the so called "great" kingdom of egypt didnt persue these people, and why did the pharaoh change his mind?

well, simply.....the army was forming in the south, and by the time they travelled north, these people "walked" to sinai....thats about a weeks worth.....i heard that it was because they killed ramsees2 son, nefertari his wife (from the south) demanded that the king avenge the son....he didnt, he was afraid of their god...nefertari who was from the great house- per aa (pharaoh)....called her own forces from the south to persue these covenant preists and their follwers....by the time her army arrived to greet ramsees, he escorted them to the evacuees....then you have your exodus story....ITS ALL EGYPTIAN...EVERYTHING.

First of all, thank you for the MaceHead story. I will be doing much more research about that.
Second, Jesus did not have a staff. He actually told his followers NOT to carry walking sticks. If you are speaking about the Spear of Longinus, there is much about that elsewhere. It is of little relevance.
Perhaps you are speaking of the Exodus of the followers of Akhenaten, the so-called "Second Exodus." They were eventually rounded up and prosecuted, unlike the Israelites.
As for the bits about God not giving his name to the prophets, where did they get the Tetragammatron, then? He did give his name to Moses. What is his name? I AM.
The Pharaoh- and the Egyptian army- did chase the Israelites. However, when they tried to run across the parted Jordan, it closed. They almost all died, and the rest gave up in fear of YHVH.

Before you try to argue with the Bible, you should read the Bible.

Peace,
SeraphNB

Originally posted by seraphnb

Perhaps you are speaking of the Exodus of the followers of Akhenaten, the so-called "Second Exodus." They were eventually rounded up and prosecuted, unlike the Israelites.

2nd exodus..??!! interesting...

Before you try to argue with the Bible, you should read the Bible.

i didnt realise i was
i thought they were myths from egypt...not referencing the bible at all.

peace out!

JAMES KING HERE
THERE IS A RUSSIAN ORTHODOX BIBLE HELD IN A VACUUM CHAMBER IN ENGLAND OR BRITISH MUSEUM DONT REMEMBER WHICH USING MODERN TECH A FEW YEARS AGO THEY STARTED TRYING TO TRANSLATED IT DONT KNOW IF DONE YET BUT IN 15 CENTURY SOME WAS WRIITEN ABOUT ROD OF AARON===MADE OUT SAPPHIRE----SHAPED LIKE A TIC TAC TOE BOARD BUT ROUND===TORSION COIL MADE OF GOLD RIBBONE ON THE UPRIGHTS--ON THE TOP CROSS OCTAGON BRASS BELLS IMBEDED WITH A STEM INTO SAPPHIRE ---THE BOTTOM STUCK IN GROUND===SO MANY FEET FROM ARK OF COVENENT WITH SAPPHIRE CUT IN THE SHAPE OF THE CRESENT MOON---2 PRIEST WOULD STRIKE THE BELLS AND IF EVERY SET UP AND WORKING RIGHT--AN ALMOND ROD WAS STUCK THRU THE MIDDLE AND IF IT SARTED TO BUD THEN DEVICE WAS WORKING CORRECTLY---THE WEIGHT IS SAMES AS URS-THE CIRCUMFERENCE OF THE COLUMN AND CROSS PIECES WERE THE SAME AS ABRAHAMS CIRCUMSION USING THAT NUMBER SYSTEM THEY USED BACK THEN I FORGET WHICH OLD AGE I GUESS THAT IS ALL THE INFO I HAVE CAME ACROSS WOULD LIKE THE HERE MORE ON THIS SUBJECT THANKS

originally posted by: jamesking2468123
JAMES KING HERE
THERE IS A RUSSIAN ORTHODOX BIBLE HELD IN A VACUUM CHAMBER IN ENGLAND OR BRITISH MUSEUM DONT REMEMBER WHICH USING MODERN TECH A FEW YEARS AGO THEY STARTED TRYING TO TRANSLATED IT DONT KNOW IF DONE YET BUT IN 15 CENTURY SOME WAS WRIITEN ABOUT ROD OF AARON===MADE OUT SAPPHIRE----SHAPED LIKE A TIC TAC TOE BOARD BUT ROUND===TORSION COIL MADE OF GOLD RIBBONE ON THE UPRIGHTS--ON THE TOP CROSS OCTAGON BRASS BELLS IMBEDED WITH A STEM INTO SAPPHIRE ---THE BOTTOM STUCK IN GROUND===SO MANY FEET FROM ARK OF COVENENT WITH SAPPHIRE CUT IN THE SHAPE OF THE CRESENT MOON---2 PRIEST WOULD STRIKE THE BELLS AND IF EVERY SET UP AND WORKING RIGHT--AN ALMOND ROD WAS STUCK THRU THE MIDDLE AND IF IT SARTED TO BUD THEN DEVICE WAS WORKING CORRECTLY---THE WEIGHT IS SAMES AS URS-THE CIRCUMFERENCE OF THE COLUMN AND CROSS PIECES WERE THE SAME AS ABRAHAMS CIRCUMSION USING THAT NUMBER SYSTEM THEY USED BACK THEN I FORGET WHICH OLD AGE I GUESS THAT IS ALL THE INFO I HAVE CAME ACROSS WOULD LIKE THE HERE MORE ON THIS SUBJECT THANKS

Okay I'll bite, ER wait make that a nibble,,,,,what?