Rapture: Left Behind

See, IMO, knowing the exact date of when the world will end is sort-of like CHEATING... These Christians following Camping desire so much for this world to end, but why? Wouldn't you want more time with your family? Or have you seen and done all the things you always dreamed of? Have you lived long enough to meet your grandkids? etc etc..

Seriously, WHY do these people wish so much for this to happen?

The one billboard says, The Wise Men Know... pffffff

Yes, Wise Men(and women) know that we shouldn't worry about such things. We know to enjoy each day like its our last and we will cross whatever bridge when we get there. True Believers in God live day-to-day and dont worry about the 'end of the world'... because DUH, we know its going to happen sooner or later, but in the meantime, I WANT TO HAVE FUN!!!!! =D

Originally posted by miniatus
She believes she wasn't saved if she's still here on May 22nd... what about when all of her friends from church are still here? and Mr. Camping? ... of course he could just take all the money he collected and run .. then everyone would think he was taken to heaven

That kind of reminds me of an episode of The Simpsons, "Marge vs. the Monorail", where the citizens of Springfield pay for a monorail and it ends up being made of the cheapest materials. Lyle Lanley, the man who sold it to them, escapes with all the money but his plane makes an emergency landing in a town where he had sold another defective monorail and the locals beat him up.

Originally posted by myeyeshavseen
See, IMO, knowing the exact date of when the world will end is sort-of like CHEATING... These Christians following Camping desire so much for this world to end, but why? Wouldn't you want more time with your family? Or have you seen and done all the things you always dreamed of? Have you lived long enough to meet your grandkids? etc etc..

Seriously, WHY do these people wish so much for this to happen?

But these people truly believe God says the Rapture will be this Saturday. That's why they're doing all of this, because they think there's nothing more they can do, that they can't stop it and it's up to God now.

-What do you think makes people believe these types of predictions and spend all their money or sell their houses and quit their jobs?
They take the Bible too literally. When you take a piece of allegory literally, you picture dragons and faeries popping up in the oddest places, but when you interpret it as it is - an abstract illustration made to be understood in a different way - then you'll see the true meaning. When someone looks at a piece of art that seems completely chaotic or strange, do they look at it as it appears to their eyes, or do they search within for the meaning of it? That's how you understand the Bible. They are misunderstanding it, that's all.

-What kind of proof would you need to believe an End of the World prediction?
There is no "end of the world" as they see it, rather, the end is actually the beginning of a new world, that's all.

-If the Rapture does occur, what would you say or do?
It won't occur as they say it will. This "gathering into the clouds" is the "wind through which we grow", ie love. Do you see that? We will grow; mature. The second coming would be this: teaching all of us once and for all how to love one another. Who's to say this isn't happening through us as well? The kingdom is within you, after all.

It's absurd to think God would take a few people up into a cloudy abode and leave everyone else to wither away for eternity. This is such a selfish way of thinking... how can people really think that that which is infinite in love and grace would allow such a thing to happen to his children? Become love, this is what Jesus taught us. First and foremost is Love. The whole rapture idea to me seems like a spiritual suicide. People are clinging so hard to being swept away like this, and when it doesn't happen, their heart falters and they lose their faith, and those around them will mock their foolishness and would never consider believing in what you did. Where is the love for your brothers and sisters if they would be left behind? Your true instinct would be to NOT be taken away and let others suffer - that is the unselfish way to see it. Jesus didn't come here to teach selfishness, he came to strip us clean of it.

Originally posted by AdamsMurmur
It's absurd to think God would take a few people up into a cloudy abode and leave everyone else to wither away for eternity.

I see your point, but I think this is the same people who believe sinners are going to burn in Hell for eternity. If it is, then the Rapture would be God's way of "rewarding" them for being good.

Originally posted by Under Water
The only reason I'm even interested in this topic is because of a dream I had about it and posted here a while back. (yeah, i know... it's just a dream.)

God spoke to people in the OT days through dreams and visions. This stopped around the time of Jesus' ministry, but many believe in the end times dreams and visions will resume. There have been many reports of dreams and visions of Jesus coming out of the middle east and causing an interesting number of conversions to Christianity, so it may be starting again. Of course this doesn't mean your dream was from God, but these days I don't dismiss anyone's dream.

Originally posted by AdamsMurmur
-What kind of proof would you need to believe an End of the World prediction?
There is no "end of the world" as they see it, rather, the end is actually the beginning of a new world, that's all.

Quite right. I think this is one of the areas where New Age beliefs more or less converge with Christian beliefs, although the details of how we get there are different both believe in the dawning of a better world on the other side. The "end times" are just the end of the world as we currently know it.

Originally posted by Casandra
I see your point, but I think this is the same people who believe sinners are going to burn in Hell for eternity. If it is, then the Rapture would be God's way of "rewarding" them for being good.

No, not sinners as that would include everybody It's not even "believers" versus "non-believers". It's those who choose God versus those who reject Him. Hell is basically separation from the Lord, and it's reserved for those who reject Him, so basically they get what they want.

reply to post by Casandra

I,just posted a reply under the 198 bible find,about the rapture,hope it helps.I,love talking about the bible,What would you like to know? I,will answering all questions the best I,can.But I,answer only with truth from the Bible,about any questions. Pertaining to life,government, economical,laws,families and family values....I,can be emailed privately to,if there is something you'd like to know privately. I,am a Christian,I,believe and go by my bible. I,also believe in the rapture and the left behind.I,believe in faith trust,love,honesty,forgiveness to all,no matter what sin.Jesus forgives all,you just got to take it to the cross and repent.Now,I,don't go by saying religion or what faith are you.I,go by the heart,and do you believe in JESUS AND GOD/Also that Jesus died on the cross for our sins and he arose in 3 days.Also he is preparing a place for us and coming back for his true believers,that kept the faith and will(commandments).Now non of us perfect,even after we are saved,But we can go back to the cross and repent for forgiveness.Like Jesus said sin no more. He didn't promise everyday would be roses,but he did say he would send a comforter,the holy spirit.We,must pray to him all the time,not just when we want or need something.I,pray to him everyday,thanking him and praising him,no matter what happens.I,try to find something good in everything,even if its bad. We need just to pray a simple prayer,like the lords prayer.Also in private,unless we are in church or something like that.I,do believe we are close to the end times.The media shows it everyday and nature.We must forgive everyone,for what they have done.Jesus did and does.If we don't how do you expect him to forgive you.
First Thessalonians 4.17 is a KEY verse pertaining to the Rapture. 1 Thes 4.17 tells us Jesus will catch us up into the clouds to be with Him. Notice that "caught up" is a translation of the Greek word harpazo.
Greek
The Koine Greek text uses the verb form ἁρπαγησόμεθα [harpagēsometha], which means "we shall be caught up", "taken away", with the connotation that this is a sudden event. The dictionary form of this Greek verb is harpazō (ἁρπάζω).[6]
Latin
The Latin rapiemur is Saint Jerome's translation of the Greek word ἁρπαγησόμεθα. This is a faithful translation, using a form of the Latin verb rapiō, "to catch up" or "take away".[7] It is found in the Vulgate rendering of 1 Thessalonians 4:17.[8]
English
"Rapture" is an English noun derived from the Latin verb rapiō, with a literal meaning of "I catch up" "or "I snatch" (from the infinitive form of the verb rapere, "to catch up"; "rapture" is also cognate to the English .logic runs very thin because a huge number of words don't appear in the Bible, including the word “Bible.” Because God's Word was originally written in Hebrew and Greek, one could truthfully say that no English words are found in the Bible. Let's take a look at 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18 in the original Greek:

4:16 oti autos o kurios en keleusmati en fwnh arcaggelou kai en salpiggi qeou katabhsetai ap ouranou kai oi nekroi en cristw anasthsontai prwton 4:17 epeita hmeis oi zwntes oi perileipomenoi ama sun autois arpaghsomeqa en nefelais eis apanthsin tou kuriou eis aera kai outws pantote sun kuriw esomeqa 4:18 wste parakaleite allhlous en tois logois toutois. I,hope this helps you.You must find a good church,that goes by the bible and teaches the bible.Also a church that asks for alter calls.Also a church,that still not afraid to teach the revelations and the rapture and Jesus second coming.Churches have changed so much,they have changed to fit the world and forgot what God teaches and did and does.Also the church doesn't make us follow the 10 commandments,and what Jesus said for us to do in the new testament.Pastors are afraid to tell the truth about hell,there is one.It was meant for the angels and satan,but mankind will go there to if they don't repent.He doesn't want to lose any of us.He is a loving, merciful,forgiving father.He said seek and you shall find.People want the easy way,the wide road.we must take the narrow road.There is only one way to heaven,and through JESUS CHRIST! Doing good things and being good doen't get you into heaven.We all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.Because of ADAM AND EVE.But God is giving us a second chance,because Jesus died for us.By his stripes we are healed,just proclaim it,its already done in his name and blood.His blood washed all of our sins away.In Jesus name amen

Gotta' love that self-approval sticker - "the bible guarantees it"

So long as i've got the bibles "guarantee"- Geological events are dictated at the will of a supernatural being:-

Q: "Evidence of that?"

A: "Bible said so, yo!"

What i find remarkable is that you would have to believe the non-believing vehicle passengers of Christians may be fatally killed whilst they are sucked up to the magical sky-kingdom....

.....Guess it doesn't matter though, as us heathens are soon to be BURNING FOREVER IN AGONISING PAIN!! MUHAHAHA



S+F

Originally posted by venusstarlite
reply to post by Casandra

 

You must find a good church,that goes by the bible and teaches the bible.

I'm not a religious person, but if I were looking for a church like you said, then how would I know which one to choose? You say one that teaches the Bible, but people have different interpretations of it, just like Mr. Camping, who believes the date of the Rapture is in the Bible and he found it.

If there's only one Bible but different interpretations of it, how do you know which one is the right one? What if there isn't a right interpretation yet? How can you know?

When the rapture happens,all will know,the trumpet sound will be loud,look up and we will be caught up with Jesus.A lot of people around the whole world will disappear.None of us know the date and hour or time.They are false prophets when they claim dates.Jesus said when they say go and look don't go.also the rapture will happen,first.when Jesus comes back to earth to rein for the thousand years,he will stand on mt.mirah and a great earthquake will happen.
,please go by your bible not man!

Though not referred to as the Rapture in the english language Bible, there are several references to the event. John 14:1-3 states, 1) Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.


Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
Matthew 24:39-41, Mt 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mt 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mt 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Other passages pertaining to the Rapture are in 1 Corinthians 15:50-58 and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.



How not to be left behind.

All that's required, to not be left behind, is to accept Christ as your savior. He died on the cross for our sins, and rose from the dead three days later. And then accended to heaven to be with God the father. Proving He was God by doing all this. What to do if you do get left behind.

What to expect: You basically have seven years of what God calls the tribulation. For the first 3 1/2 years, everything will seem fine. The world will come up with an excuse to why so many vanished one day. And most will believe it. A man will appear on the seen that will seem to have the answer to everything. The world will want him as their leader. He is known, in God's word, as the antichrist. This is because he will claim to be Christ. But will be telling a lie. He will suffer a fatal wound, then recover completely as no man has ever done. He will claim that it is his healing powers that have done this. And the world will follow him in awe.

The next 3 1/2 years of the tribulation will be the worst man has seen. This is when God puts judgement upon the earth, and many great horrors will be revealed. The antichrist will tell all that anyone who is Christian is responsible and should be killed. And anyone not taking his mark cannot buy or sell and should be killed also. The world will seem to have gone mad. Christians and those who refuse to recieve the mark (666) will be rounded up and beheaded.The bible says this will happen.This isn't to scare you,but this is serious,either you are saved or you aren't.I,chose to be saved.I,don't want to be here when the antichrist is here.I,believe he is here now,who,I,don't know,time will only tell and when Jesus calls us believers home,scales will fall from all non-believers.I,don't pressure,or throw faith down any ones throats.I,only speak the truth from the HOLY BIBLE ,GODS TRUE WORD.I,chose to believe him and not Satan!

What not to do: Anyone who recieves this mark of the antichrist, shows who his or her God really is (Satan). For God will no longer allow any other way once someone has done this. In other words, you have just lost your soul as soon as the mark is put upon you. Those who do this will break out in boils all over their body. The plagues will also come upon them,the book of revelation speaks about this all happening. You will suffer, but not die. In other words, you could shoot yourself in the head expecting to end it all, but you'd only make your life worse because you can't die. That is part of the suffering, you have to endure it all. Never deny God, and never take the mark of the antichrist. is your only way out. Also need to accept Christ. Now the holy spirit will be gone, so when you accept him during the tribulation, you won't feel much different as when someone accepted before the rapture does. Remember, God is giving you one more chance, He did not have to do this. It could have been rapture, then it's done.

reply to post by Casandra


Well,this is how I,do it.The old testament comes from the torah, originally. Now the new testament comes along,it is basically,a whole bunch of parts from the old testament,except it tells us who the messiah is Jesus christ.It told us in micah,pslams and other old testament books about Jesus coming.Now,if it wasn't for the Jews we wouldn't have had Jesus,he was a jew,also we wouldn't of had the bible,or God.Also ,if it wasn't for Jesus dieing we wouldn't of had a second chance to be with god.Since ADAM AND EVE DISOBEYED GOD. Then if it hadn't been for Jesus telling PAUL to come to us gentiles we wouldn't have God.I,thank God he created the heavens and earth.But then we man kind are destroying it.Still God forgives us,because he loves us,that much.We got added to the root(jesus).WE,need jesus and the holy spirit and god,or we have nothing.I,use the King james version,and its the closet to the torah.If I,could read the torah,I,have it along with my new testament.As for a church,I,feel more comfortable in a small one,they haven't forgotten.The big ones,seem to go for money and other things.Now there is good big churches.But you need a church and deacons that are there for you.I,was going to a baptist church,but they have changed to the world.I,love some of the holy roller churches.I,have tried a lot.In my next articles,I,will post what I,found in the different churches and you decide.I,finally choose my bible and go to different churches,I,am searching for one that goes back to the old time religion,old hymns,alter calls and tells the bible,speaks the revelation and not afraid to stand up for our belief and GOD AND JESUS.Also not to let aclu tell us what to do.

Originally posted by venusstarlite
reply to post by Casandra

 

Since ADAM AND EVE DISOBEYED GOD.

This isn't literal, is it? Anyway, now that you mentioned them I have a question. In Genesis we read about the creation and it says the world was created in days. It doesn't actually mean days, right? More like a certain period of time that they call days?

Well, you said that after the Rapture horrible things were going to happen in a couple of years, I think 3 and a half. How do we know this time it is the actual time they're using? Couldn't "3 and a half years" be again a certain period of time, but not exactly that? Couldn't all the bad things that are happening in the world like earthquakes, floods, diseases and everything be the bad things that happen after the Rapture? What if it happened a long time ago and we're dealing with the aftermath?

Sorry for all the questions, I assure you they aren't mean-spirited, I'm just curious. I have to go to school now, but I'll be back in a couple of hours to check this thread and see if there's any new responses. Thank you for taking your time to answer me.

reply to post by Casandra



To the people who don't believe the rapture will happen this Saturday:

-What do you think makes people believe these types of predictions and spend all their money or sell their houses and quit their jobs?

I agree with the others who said that people want desperately to get away from their life on this earth. Believers also have a longing to be with their Lord, some so much that they'll believe anyone who comes along saying, "Get ready, we'll be leaving for heaven on xx/xx/xxxx date!!"

-What kind of proof would you need to believe an End of the World prediction?

God would have to speak to me, personally, in that still, small voice -- He's the only one I would believe. If I heard someone predicting the end, and the Spirit told me this person was correct and to be ready, then I'd believe. For anyone who claims to be a prophet of God, you are instructed to "test the spirits"... to tell you if they're true or false.

-If the Rapture does occur, what would you say or do?

If the rapture does occur, I doubt I would say anything. There wouldn't be enough time, because I would be changed in and instant. Then I would be on my face worshiping Him. There would honestly be no words in my current language that would be sufficient.

My biggest thing with Camping's predictions is his timeline of events. If there are only 5 months left before the destruction of the world as we know it, where is the antichrist? The Bible's description says that the antichrist will be in full swing... especially if there's only 5 months left. The tribulation is supposed to last 7 years... and while the earth in her current state is far from good, I don't think we're anywhere close to it being as bad as the prophecies in the Bible tell us it's going to be. When the tribulation starts, things are going to get ugly real quick, but I honestly don't believe we are currently in it.

While I've not read all of his "work", I'd like a quick rundown of when the 7 seals were opened... what were the defining events of those opened seals? As well as the trumpets? Anything that is sincere and true to Biblical teaching should be able to be outlined rather quickly, especially if we've already seen most of it come to pass. Anything that requires an explanation that is novel in length, to me, is used more as a smoke screen to confuse people with too much information and "facts". If it's been done already, it should be as plain as the nose on your face, with the facts being rather plain and easy to point out. Does that make sense?

And for those who say the Bible doesn't speak of a "rapture", then how do they define the phrase "caught up"? What does that mean? I'd like to hear their interpretation of the Scriptures which speak of us being "caught up" with Him in the air.

Originally posted by Casandra
This isn't literal, is it? Anyway, now that you mentioned them I have a question. In Genesis we read about the creation and it says the world was created in days. It doesn't actually mean days, right? More like a certain period of time that they call days?

Some believe it is literal days while others do not. In 2 Peter 3:8 it says "one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." So does that mean each "day" of Genesis could really be a thousand years? We can't say with 100% certainty one way or the other. The point I'm trying to make is it is best not to be dogmatic about these things, I accept that the Lord created the world and the universe but I do not know if it was created in days or in thousands of years. The historical record and carbon dating seem to show the earth is ancient, if you're too dogmatic then it's gets very difficult to square science and the Bible, you reach a point where you have to dismiss one or the other as flawed (or accept that your interpretation is wrong which is what people seem to have the most trouble doing). Personally I think the historical record is valid, and I think that the "young earth" view is a misinterpretation.

Originally posted by Casandra
Well, you said that after the Rapture horrible things were going to happen in a couple of years, I think 3 and a half. How do we know this time it is the actual time they're using? Couldn't "3 and a half years" be again a certain period of time, but not exactly that?

The Tribulation is widely believed to be 7 years. This would take more explaining then I've got room for here, but in the book of Daniel comes the concept of the 70 weeks of God's dispensation with the Jews. Those "weeks" are actually 7 year periods. 69 of those weeks have already happened, they were completed when the Jews rejected Jesus as Messiah and God's dispensation with the Jews officially went on hold and His dispensation with the gentiles began. We currently live in the "church age", the rapture will mark the end of the church age as the "church" (Christ's church, not the brick-and-mortar church on your corner) will be removed and the 70th week of Daniel will begin (also known as the Tribulation, or the resumption of God's dispensation with the Jews). If you're really interested in this I recommend Arnold Fruchtenbaum's "Footsteps of the Messiah". It does a great job of walking through the timing of the events, and why they happen when they do. The 3-1/2 years you mentioned comes from "time, times and half time" which is mentioned in Daniel and Revelation, this is the amount of time the two witnesses will preach before being struck down at the midpoint of the Trib (so this is referring to half of the Trib).

Originally posted by Casandra
Couldn't all the bad things that are happening in the world like earthquakes, floods, diseases and everything be the bad things that happen after the Rapture? What if it happened a long time ago and we're dealing with the aftermath?

No, for a few reasons. First of all, what we are experiencing WAS predicted by Jesus. He said that we would know the end times when we saw these things:

6And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

10And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

11And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

12And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

14And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

All that should sounds pretty familiar, like it was ripped from currrent headlines! Jesus likened these events to birth pangs, which as you know grow in frequency and intensity until the birth happens. So we should see these events increasing both in frequency and intensity, and that is exactly what we have been seeing for quite some time. But we're not in the Tribulation, for a description of the Tribulation have a look at Revelation. The Tribulation will begin with a peace agreement between Israel and the Antichrist, and will be marked with judgments against the world which Jesus said would be unlike anything seen before or will ever be seen again. We're seeing unusual activity now, but not what the Bible says would be seen during the Trib, so it's safe to say it hasn't started yet. Plus Rev outlines very specific judgments beginning in Rev 6 with the releasing of the "4 Horsemen of the Apocalypse" as they're usually called. 1/4 of the world population will die via war and starvation, and that's at the beginning of the Trib (it gets a lot more horrific after that). So there are specific events that will allow people to recognize that the Trib is underway and those events haven't happened yet.

Originally posted by prettygentle
And for those who say the Bible doesn't speak of a "rapture", then how do they define the phrase "caught up"? What does that mean? I'd like to hear their interpretation of the Scriptures which speak of us being "caught up" with Him in the air.

I mentioned this in another thread, but the main argument people seem to make is that the word "rapture" isn't in the Bible so therefore the rapture is a false concept. Guess what, "giraffe" isn't in there either, so I guess giraffes are imaginary, LOL! Rapture is just the word we've assigned to an event described in the Bible. It's easier than saying "then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air". It's shorthand. Also most opponents seem to think that 1 Thess 4:17 is the only reference to the rapture, but the concept is actually sprinkled throughout the Bible. As mentioned in the post above the church has to be removed before the 70th week of Daniel can begin, and there are references to the church already being in Heaven during the Trib. Also it's interesting to note that Christ's church on earth is discussed throughout the NT, UNTIL the Trib starts. After that the only references to Christ's church are in Heaven.

Originally posted by SavedOne

Originally posted by prettygentle
And for those who say the Bible doesn't speak of a "rapture", then how do they define the phrase "caught up"? What does that mean? I'd like to hear their interpretation of the Scriptures which speak of us being "caught up" with Him in the air.

I mentioned this in another thread, but the main argument people seem to make is that the word "rapture" isn't in the Bible so therefore the rapture is a false concept. Guess what, "giraffe" isn't in there either, so I guess giraffes are imaginary, LOL! Rapture is just the word we've assigned to an event described in the Bible. It's easier than saying "then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air". It's shorthand. Also most opponents seem to think that 1 Thess 4:17 is the only reference to the rapture, but the concept is actually sprinkled throughout the Bible. As mentioned in the post above the church has to be removed before the 70th week of Daniel can begin, and there are references to the church already being in Heaven during the Trib. Also it's interesting to note that Christ's church on earth is discussed throughout the NT, UNTIL the Trib starts. After that the only references to Christ's church are in Heaven.

Thank you so very much! We share a similar view (I don't say "same" because we've not had an in-depth discussion on the topic). Now, if I could get someone who is in denial of the rapture to post their views (on this or one other thread I posed the question on), that would be good. I would just like to see where they are coming from... even though it seems to me that most of the people who say there is no rapture either don't believe in God/Jesus or they have misinterpreted His Word to fit into their comfort zone.

Originally posted by prettygentle
We share a similar view (I don't say "same" because we've not had an in-depth discussion on the topic).

One of the mysteries of scripture is that no two people have exactly the same interpretation, so I'm sure if we compared notes closely enough we'd find a few differences, but that's to be expected The rapture seems to be a particularly divisive topic. Even among those who believe in the rapture there are pre-trib, mid-trib and post-trib believers, many of whom get quite angry about defending their position.

Originally posted by prettygentle
Now, if I could get someone who is in denial of the rapture to post their views (on this or one other thread I posed the question on), that would be good.

I think the Amillennial view is the one I have the most trouble understanding, basically the view is that all of the Revelation events (including the Trib) happened long ago and we're already living in the thousand year reign of peace (and they have to argue that the "thousand" years is not literal, since it's been almost two thousand years since they claim it was all fulfilled). What I find so perplexing is that they think that right now we're living under Christ's rule. One has to wonder what kind of a lousy ruler they consider Him to be to allow the world to be in this kind of shape with Him as leader!

reply to post by SavedOne


I agree. You sound like you have a good grip on the Scriptures. I'm just beginning to study again (backslider ). I grew up being taught the pre-trib rapture view, so I tend to lean toward it, but I can't honestly say I discount the mid-trib view as I've not studied enough myself to be ready to argue "when" exactly we'll be called home... only that I firmly believe that we will be, and that I have serious doubts about it being post-trib (otherwise, how would we be spared from the wrath?).

And I agree with your view of us already being in the 1,000 year reign. It's just silly to adopt that view, since (correct me if I'm wrong) that is supposed to be a time of peace with a rebuilt earth with Christ as our King. I'd like to see what Scriptures they believe tell us that this is the case.

reply to post by SavedOne


Thank you very much for answering. That was very informative and I enjoyed reading it. I'm going to see if I can find the book you mentioned.

Originally posted by SavedOne

I think the Amillennial view is the one I have the most trouble understanding, basically the view is that all of the Revelation events (including the Trib) happened long ago and we're already living in the thousand year reign of peace

I don't think anyone could consider what we're going through as peace.

And I loved the giraffe example

Thank you again