Is Jesus God ? Debate

reply to post by HispanicPanic


i think that is an interesting perspective. So, do you feel that personal decision and responsibility are not relevant because such things are directly controlled by material dualistic balance?

edit: my own curiosity led me to an off topic post

So, to answer the question posed by the OP, it all depends on how one defines God. If they think it is some thing that is not real, of course the answer will be no. If one sees all things as God, then jesus being a part of that is inevitable. And then there are all the viewpoints in between. i am not so interested in seeing some people debate about it at length and recorded though, as if i wanted to see that, i would just go anywhere on the internet that even has the word "god" or "jesus" mentioned

reply to post by Buddha1098


If you actually understand what "omnipotence" means you would not believe in a God. And If you need me to explain this to you then you are not worth debating with.

I'll also wager you Omniscient paradox. That and Omnipresent if you like.

reply to post by solid007


Why are we listening to a debate about Jesus from a Muslim?

NO he is not god but rather a creator son, part of the order of michael. Before incarnating on this planet as Jesus of Nazareth, Jesus was Michael of Nebadon, the 611,121st original concept of the Paradise Father and Son.

According to the urantia book ( urantia being the celestial name for earth)

Originally posted by Buddha1098
reply to post by HispanicPanic

 

Ummm I didn't claim to have evidence.. you Said "The other two scholars can only show evidence from a book." I assumed that meant you had some. Apparently your own opinion is enough evidence for you...

nope i didnt say that. wrong person lol

reply to post by solid007


I will have to watch this later as time doesn't currently allow long stretches of attention, but...

Based on the claims made in the bible, I do see there being a case for the divinity of 'Jesus'. However, as he never directly clarified this one way or the other, believers are obligated to merely follow his example and worship god ('the Father') directly.

As such, I do not personally believe that worship should be given to the man known as Jesus. This fulfills the example given and requirements set by himself, as well as avoids any issues that might arise from the possibility that he is not. We are to offer prayer and praise to god - 'Jesus' did not ever command it for himself.

On a side note, I also believe this is a peripheral issue of little importance that believers have distracted themselves with over the centuries - follow the example given to avoid problems as I'm sure we'll find out someday regardless.

reply to post by MachiventaMelchizedek


I REALLY need to find my copy of the Urantia book. Can't say I put much stock in it off the bat, but it's definitely interesting and I never got too far into it.

The fact that it turned itself over on my dresser one night also still bugs me to no end.

reply to post by HispanicPanic


Were all in this together!!!

reply to post by Crutchley29


Like I thought you don't have any evidence. When you raise your consciousness and defeat your ego someday you may be able to see you opinions for what they are. Just opinions. I believe in you buddy I believe you can wake up prove me right k?

reply to post by HispanicPanic


Oops Sorry.. so hard to keep this internet pissing matches straight! =)

reply to post by solid007


Polytheism. The only way they can get you to follow their extremely strange beliefs is to manufacture them for local consumption. Many religious rituals take their timing from the local culture they overran. Hence Christmas and Easter taking over the time slots of earlier Western Pagan beliefs.
Two other points; Why is the non-existent personage of Jesus portrayed as an Aryan blue eyed white supremacist figure when common sense would dictate that as a Jew he would have been a brown eyed Semitic Arab.
Second point; one poster claims guidance from the KJV, what about the other versions. The original Aramaic through Greek, Latin then English. Talk about Chinese whispers.
So no he is not God. Primarily because he never existed or primarily because there is no God(s). Well you pays your money and makes your choice on that one!

Each person has the power to do what they please. Jesus only came down to help us understand the cosmic laws of the universe so that one day we TOO can become ONE with god, creator, the source...whatever you want to call it.

As far as materialism goes...yes our technology has the higher grip. and so does dependency

The Urantia book great. I must admit when i picked it up ten twelve years ago it was far beyond me, i came into contavt with this book again about 3 years ago and i admit the first 400 pages was very confusing and boring (somewhat), but if i didnt read those first 400 pages i would have been lost for the rest of the book. It completly changed alot of views i had on jesus before i read it. and the funny thing is i never looked at him as god but man mad into god...i now know these impressions of jesus was immature.

The Urantia book great. I must admit when i picked it up ten twelve years ago it was far beyond me, i came into contavt with this book again about 3 years ago and i admit the first 400 pages was very confusing and boring (somewhat), but if i didnt read those first 400 pages i would have been lost for the rest of the book. It completly changed alot of views i had on jesus before i read it. and the funny thing is i never looked at him as god but man mad into god...i now know these impressions of jesus was immature.

reply to post by Buddha1098


Evidence? that God is not real? the God set forth in the Bible?...what...are you a YEC? You can do the legwork my friend, the evidence "Scientific, lab tested and proven" is all around you.

What often or not used arguments for the belief of God and the disbelief of God would would you like first?

Shrinking sun
Accumulation of cosmic dust
The existence of short period comets
No fossil meteorites
Lunar recession
Moon contains U-236 and Th-230
Poynting-Robertson effect on space dust
Star cluster expansion
Saturn's rings
Cooling rates of Jupiter and Saturn
Decay of Earth's magnetic field
Volume of lava on Earth
Mineral in ocean water
Helium in Earth's atmophere
Erosion of Earth's continents
Thickness of topsoil
Erosion of Niagara Falls
Oil and gas well pressure
Mississippi River delta
Slowing of Earth's rotation
sediment transport
Stalactite formation rates
Sahara Desert
Amount of salt in the oceans
Number of people on Earth
Oldest coral reef
Oldest tree
Oldest historical record
Dates in the Bible
Stories from ancient cultures
Hovind attacks radiocarbon dating

Pick any. Please...and have a Bible ready as well, just incase you would like to reference, that is unless you were just trolling me, in that case....nevermind!

ALSO...If you would like to discuss Hovind "Regarding CD" we can do it over a nice cup of tea.

Originally posted by Buddha1098
reply to post by Akragon

 

What do you think of John 8:58 then? Many Christians use this as a proof text for the divinity of Jesus. What's your take?

58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

Yes, and in a line before this a group of jews we're asking him why he's not even 50 years old, and yet he's seen Abraham.

You'll also notice this from a few verses eariler.... same book.

12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

13 The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true.

14 Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.

Unlike many Jesus kept his memories of the afterlife or "heaven" He knew exactly where he came from, and where hes headed.

This still doesn't make him God, he mearly retained his memories from before he was born.

He knew abraham in the afterlife or spirit realm.

Originally posted by Crutchley29
reply to post by Buddha1098

 

Evidence? that God is not real? the God set forth in the Bible?...what...are you a YEC? You can do the legwork my friend, the evidence "Scientific, lab tested and proven" is all around you.

What often or not used arguments for the belief of God and the disbelief of God would would you like first?

Shrinking sun
Accumulation of cosmic dust
The existence of short period comets
No fossil meteorites
Lunar recession
Moon contains U-236 and Th-230
Poynting-Robertson effect on space dust
Star cluster expansion
Saturn's rings
Cooling rates of Jupiter and Saturn
Decay of Earth's magnetic field
Volume of lava on Earth
Mineral in ocean water
Helium in Earth's atmophere
Erosion of Earth's continents
Thickness of topsoil
Erosion of Niagara Falls
Oil and gas well pressure
Mississippi River delta
Slowing of Earth's rotation
sediment transport
Stalactite formation rates
Sahara Desert
Amount of salt in the oceans
Number of people on Earth
Oldest coral reef
Oldest tree
Oldest historical record
Dates in the Bible
Stories from ancient cultures
Hovind attacks radiocarbon dating

Pick any. Please...and have a Bible ready as well, just incase you would like to reference, that is unless you were just trolling me, in that case....nevermind!

ALSO...If you would like to discuss Hovind "Regarding CD" we can do it over a nice cup of tea.

edit on 17-5-2011 by Crutchley29 because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-5-2011 by Crutchley29 because: (no reason given)

sorry this makes no sense to me

reply to post by MachiventaMelchizedek


I'm asking the person responding to me to pick a topic that he would like that disproves the existence of the Judeo-Christian God.

reply to post by Crutchley29


Read the words I type.. Not what you think I'm saying. I never said God existed. I never said the God of the Bible was God or that Jesus was God. You implied you have evidence that God doesn't exist. I'm still waiting to see it. I'm not arrogant enough or maybe I'm not so egotistical to exclude the possibility of God.

reply to post by Akragon


I dunno.. It's pretty well established that one of the accepted titles of God is I AM. The fact that the crowd picked up stones to kill him tells me that they considered what he said to be blasphemy. I thought this was THE proof text that Christians use for Jesus divinity. That and John 1