Taxpayers could be given £1,000 worth of shares in bailed-out banks under radical new plan Read mo

Taxpayers could be given £1,000 worth of shares in bailed-out banks under radical new plan Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk...

www.dailymail.co.uk

46million people could be given a stake in the banks
If shares went up by just a penny, every taxpayer would be instantly £19 better off
Taxpayers 'could pocket hundreds of pounds each'
Every taxpayer could be handed £1,000 worth of shares in the Royal Bank of Scotland and Lloyds, if a radical new proposal gets the green light.
An influential Tory think-tank demanded today that after being burdened with all the risk from the bank bailouts, Britons should get some of the benefits.
Under the deal put forward, taxpayers would themselves become stakeholders in the banks - and could sell t

(visit the link for the full news article)

Just WOW. If this can be pulled off it will be the hugest PR masterstroke by any government ever. It would end complaints of hardship at the cuts and give the economy a massive 46 billion GBP boost as everyone sold off their shares and pumped the money on buying stuff.

I am in shock that the government has the nous to suggest this let alone consider doing it.

Sneaky sneaky bastards! We the taxpayers will still have to pay the bailout bill through our taxes but we'll feel like winners....

www.dailymail.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

reply to post by spacedonk


Thats exactly what it is for. To make you feel that the banks interests are YOUR interests. That way when more and more governmental policy favors the banks you can fool yourself into thinking, "but this will benefit me too as I own shares." And unless you are the sort who sits down and tallies up the REAL hidden cost of those policies against your petty gains in stock prices, you will come out the loser overall, but most importantly, you will be fighting against your own REAL self interest in favor of your PERCEIVED self interest.

Im very impressed you picked up on that right away. Good thinking. Its rare. Many people would not have looked past "Wow. A thousand pounds worth of stock for free."

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


I like the way you extrapolate the concept to involve manipulation of the banking regulations to 'increase value' of shares. Of course this would also set a dangerous precedent in terms of future bank bailouts in so much as people will say: 'don't you remember the bailouts at the beginning of the 21st Century, it was fantastic for the population, they all got lots of money when the government sorted the banks out - lets do it again'.

Ok, my phraseology is poor but you get the drift. If this does happen it would be insanely dangerous for the general population in so many ways, proof perfect that we really are manipulated for the interests of the few!

reply to post by spacedonk


Agreed. And even if they never get another bailout, just allowing changes in their lending policies, allowing them to become more predatory, charge more interest, if they can convince the people "whats good for us, is good for you" they can convince you to cheer for all sorts of things that are not, in fact, good for you.

Just like in America corporations have people cheering the end of unions. Its not good for the workers. Its good for the corporations. It will have the net effect of dragging down wages and working conditions across the board. Which is the goal, because long term, some of the manufacturing HAS to come back to America as oil prices and transportation costs increase, and wages rise in India and China.

The goal of the globalists is to even out wages around the globe, so they can move production to wherever it is most efficient to produce it. Cheap labor abroad is cheaper than expensive labor in the home market, but ideal is cheap labor in the region you want to distribute the product. Saves on shipping, warehousing, etc.

But I digress. The point is to notice that "what is good for us, is good for you" is almost never really the case between the little people and the wealthy. They didnt get wealthy by doing what is best for you, they got wealthy doing what is best for them. Its at your expense, in other words. You dont share their interests, you have competing interests. Its a trick they use and use well to convince you otherwise.

Its a good strategy, and it works. You were wise to see through it.

This idea has been bandied about for a little while now. I find the sums potentialy offered (a grand basicaly) somewhat pathetic. Bare in mind that although a hit of a grand to a bank account can be helpful, unless this sum is a tax protected sum, then it will put some people over the limit, and screw thier tax band for a year, and others may loose out on benifits which they otherwise rely on ( and Im not talking about benift cheats, just folks who make and need to continue to make legitimate claims on government money for some reason), and take an awful lot of psychological effort to reinstate, what with the phone calls, interrogations by halfwitted officials, and insensitive government operatives which one must go through to sort these things out.

When you consider the one thousand pound apology package per person which is being suggested, imagine all the money and effort that has been lost to bailouts, through paycuts, through government cuts, through increases in costs through inflation, all the economic effects that came about through the collapse of the banks. Now tell me that a thousand pounds is worth a damn. The truth is that this thousand pound possible payment, is not close to a decent apology or a thank you to us, the taxpayer, from them, the thieving , irresponsible jackasses that run our nations finances.

Until every man who was employed before the banks went bust, has a good job again, until universities are no longer charging fees, and until governments can no longer use a terrible economic situation as a cover for ideologically motivated maneuvering in the halls of parliament and the treasury, no apology, or payout will make the slightest difference. The greed and awesome arrogance which spawned the economic catastrophy which this possible pay out is designed to assuage, will, by even the most relaxed of estimates, mean that this country will not return to growth, for years to come. The way I see it, this payout is like offering a man fifty thousand pounds compensation in the wrongful death of his son or spouse. Oh sure, sounds like a lot if its a lottery win, but the loss you have to be exposed to in order to qualify for the payout isnt worth the cash value.

I think the worst thing about it, is that it might even work. I for one think it stinks.

reply to post by TrueBrit


What makes this work is that the chain of cause and effect is longer than in your example, and so people dont make the connection often between what the banks are doing and their suffering. If I ruin your life and then offer you a thousand pounds worth of shares in my company. You can make a direct link between me and the ruination of your life. But what the banks do have a knock on effect that is diffuse. I causes all sorts of things to happen and the cause and effect chain is much longer and more complex, and so its easy to overlook that the bankers and their actions are ruining your life when they flash that thousand pounds worth of shares at you.

Christ! The average man in the street who, without being rude, does not think about any of these issues in depth will not give two sh**s about the implications of receiving the money. They will cheer, vote Tory again and wank their grand up the wall double quick, whilst ironically the hedgefunds will leverage billions of pounds in sharetrading and the bankers will trade their shares taking a commission for every deal

Truebrit, your post is highly pertinent, but because of the reasons above people will think its fricking christmas! In agreement with you, I can't emphasise enough how disastrous this would be. every single penny from the flotation of the banks should be spent on UK infrastructure, services and massive amounts of job creation.

reply to post by spacedonk


That is sneaky! There is alot of 'anti-banker' sentiment at the moment so I'm in no doubt that the primary motivation of this is to try and get the people on the side of future government policies which will favour bankers (as someone else has already said). A good idea but lets just hope the public doesn't fall for it and go back to sleep.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander



Thats what I do not understand. There cannot be a MAJORITY of people so utterly mentaly incapable , that they cannot see this is like getting a gift from the man who just paralysed you. The chains of cause and effect are not that long ,and my ability to percieve them naturaly is evidence of that! I have no qualifications in analytical mathematics, economics or politics.

It takes NO special knowledge of any sort to discern reality, no special perception. There is only reality , and a lie. There are only a very small portion of the population who have the luxury of artificial immersion in a fantasy, and another small portion who have psychological discontection from reality. Everyone else therefore should surely be able to see the dross that is being fed to them?

It could not be more blatant if those in control of this crazy train had festooned this payout with neon lights, and begun wearing dayglo T shirts with "We love taxpayers, please dont lynch us" written on them!

They give in one hand and taketh in the other.

This is just PR.

Tories latching on to distributionism again the same way they did the council homes...
I can't help but smell a rat.. a very appetising rat.. but still a rat.

Originally posted by TrueBrit

Thats what I do not understand. There cannot be a MAJORITY of people so utterly mentaly incapable , that they cannot see this is like getting a gift from the man who just paralysed you. The chains of cause and effect are not that long ,and my ability to percieve them naturaly is evidence of that! I have no qualifications in analytical mathematics, economics or politics.

Please. Believe me. Yes there can be a majority that is so mentally incapable of following lines of logic more than one or two moves long.

The fact that you can SPELL analytical mathematics, or even know to bring it up says that you are not average. Do not judge the mentality of other by your own. You have to look at them for their own sake, and its not a condemnation of them, but most people are really not that bright. They can be good, and honest, and kind, but its really not that common for people to be able to think several moves ahead, or several causes removed.

Its also important to remember that when people NEED something, and its offered to them, they ask less questions, because they often dont WANT to know. They need it, and the way to avoid a conflict of conscience is often to not ask too many questions.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


If you are correct in your assertion that the vast, overwhelming majority of people are willing to sacrifice themselves unto the altar of ignorance, just for an easy life, then I must say that this country is a far more terrifying place than I had believed possible. This suggests to me that there is nothing that anyone could do to this nation now, which would force the people to react with vigour and resilience.

Truely incredible. Truely terrifying.
TB.

reply to post by TrueBrit


How do you think we all got where we are?

Because of exactly that. Being willing to sacrifice freedom and common sense and self governance for the lure of better material things, more security, etc.

Originally posted by TrueBrit
reply to post by Illusionsaregrander

 

If you are correct in your assertion that the vast, overwhelming majority of people are willing to sacrifice themselves unto the altar of ignorance, just for an easy life, then I must say that this country is a far more terrifying place than I had believed possible. This suggests to me that there is nothing that anyone could do to this nation now, which would force the people to react with vigour and resilience.

Truely incredible. Truely terrifying.
TB.

and the Criminal Justice Act would prevent any action anyway!!

People really are apathetic and mostly follow the crowd and the media's sympathies. If protests are organised they can be quelled rapidly under current legislation.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


I honestly thought that the mechanism by which we arrived at the unenviable position we find ourselves in now, was rather more involved than simple self administered ignorance. It takes an awful lot of manipulation to achieve a result of this nature. It seems that you are correct in your conclusion that peoples weaknesses make this possible, but I believe there must be another element , another force at work to create this situation.

I have always watched the news, observed the political landscape, and one thing that has always suprised me , is the incredible density of the layers of government, and the way they can open up to allow change, or lock together to prevent it. You observe the ebb and flow, the opening of the floodgates, and the closing of the doors, and it all seems to work by intuition. But it has to be under more control than that. Cause and effect almost demand it.

reply to post by spacedonk


Its certain that protest can be quashed with the baton and the bullet, but even apathy and cynicism on the part of the people cannot last for ever. There must eventualy come a point where the injustices we are asked to accept , and the price we are asked to pay for our saftey become too much. It is not a matter of IF we will react in more forceful terms than protest, but when, and to what depths we will have sunk before we try to swim.

So what should the government do with their shares in Lloyds and RBS?

Originally posted by Mike_A
So what should the government do with their shares in Lloyds and RBS?

sell them to fund:

Originally posted by Spacedonk
every single penny from the flotation of the banks should be spent on UK infrastructure, services and massive amounts of job creation.