ARE WE ALIENS, If we evolved from apes, why are there still apes?

Originally posted by seenitall
Evolution is a continous process, not discreet.

As humans we are inclined to give things labels.

I think that just about sums it up.

not totally. Natural selection is continuous (gradualism), but every now and then there are discrete jumps too, f.ex. when the same species gets separated geographically and no interbreeding can occur by either vicarant speciation or a founder element and adaptive radiation.

Darwin's theory was incomplete as he didn't know all the facts, and he only came up with gradualism, but it still describes the basis of modern evolution theory. Darwin didn't identify correctly the mechanism of inheritance (genetics), so he did the best he could and came up with natural selection. (Compare it to Newtonian physics, that was refined by Einstein to compensate for relativity, then Einsteinian physics was adapted to accomodate quantum effects).
The evolutionary theory are still continually being refined, and if you start studying evolution, you will come up with the different mechanisms through which speciation occurs.

The other factor that has to be taken into account, is that there are different selection types that sometimes override natural selection, f.ex. Sexual-selection and Kin-selection.

Evolution is a fascinating subject to study, but I don't have the time to go into a lecture here.

reply to post by badw0lf


I dont say i dont believe in some sort of evolution.
I can understand its a slow process, sure.
What about adaptation to the envirement? That can just happen in some generations.Or isnt that evolution?
If i decided to go live with my family on the southpole, my body will adapt to the cold, so will my children and their children.
Or i start with a rawfood diet, my body will have to adapt to this kind of food. But you dont need thousands of years to adapt. If you do need so much time you will already be extinct.

Why do they say that chimps are the closest to humans?
When i see experiments where they are testing the capabilities of their brain.
Well i can say my dog is more intelligent than them
Or it has nothing to do with intelligence?

If it is a slow process and it happens to every living thing, there should be species right now where we can say they are evolving. Where we can say the same animal or plant has evolved more than their fellows on the other side of the planet?There has to be living proof of ancesters.

Is adaptation the same as evolution?

Why am i not getting answers on those missing links?

reply to post by intergalactic fire

You won't adapt and your children won't either. Evolution isn't an overnight thing, it takes generations in slowly changing climates to adapt. A sudden change in environment is what kills most species.

Does your dog know sign language? Can it solve math problems and recognize itself in a mirror? Does it kill for fun or engage in war with neighboring tribes?

That alone makes chimps more than humans than anything else.

Originally posted by SG-17
reply to post by intergalactic fire

 

You won't adapt and your children won't either. Evolution isn't an overnight thing, it takes generations in slowly changing climates to adapt. A sudden change in environment is what kills most species.

Does your dog know sign language? Can it solve math problems and recognize itself in a mirror? Does it kill for fun or engage in war with neighboring tribes?

That alone makes chimps more than humans than anything else.

Sign language? If you mean like handsigns, yes she knows that.
The mirrortest i did, and i would say she had some kind of awareness when she spots herself in the mirror.
a test i did, she was looking at the mirror while i did handsigns and she reacted to that, yes.

Kill for fun, well, she likes to play with with lizards in my backyard or mice, and bite them, after that they are dead. So i could say it is some type of fun killing.

War with other tribes, my friends male dog will go really aggresive with other males if he spots or just smells a female dog he want to put his paw on.

the math thing i didnt tried that, but it was in some docu somewhere...

That we wont adapt fast to the envirement i am not so sure about that.
Last week i stumbled on some survival show, where a guy claims he walked barefoot and shortpants over a 20 years period. His body is now more adapted to this type of living.
This was a show, so dont know if its true.
I will search for some more cases of this to acknowledge it

What about abrupt climate changes?

Originally posted by ProphecyPhD

Thats like calling a light post a tree because it resembles one. In actuality they are two completely different things. Apes are apes and Humans are Humans, it's really as simple as that.

That's like calling a dumb person smart because they resemble one. In actuality they are two completely different things. Dumb people are dumb and smart people are smart, it's really as simple as that.

For goodness sake READ A DAMN BOOK on the subject. Ignorance may be biss, but it's a foolish bliss.

The thing that really makes me laugh is the fact that all those that try to knock science wouldn't be alive if it wasn't for those that embrace it. It's people like us that question and learn that have provided all our little creature comforts like, erm, medicine for example. Remeber all those little injections you had as a child? They are most likely the reason why you are still alive to type away on a little scientific marvel called a computer. Doh.

reply to post by healthysceptic

Science has nothing to do with evolution of species.
Why are we still here has nothing to do with science.

No, I mean a full language. Not just signs like "Stay", "Sit", etc. Your dog does not know sign language.

Your dog did not pass the mirror test, no dog has and no dog will.

Your dog is only acting on predator instinct, it gets no more joy from killing than any other non-hominid/dolphin.

Your dog does not gather up other members of its "tribe" and launch surprise attacks on neighboring tribes.


Someone walking around barefoot isn't a rapid change in environment. It isn't adaption to a new environment either. We have already adapted to that long ago. You'll just develop callouses on your foot, after all we did go barefoot for thousands of years. Abrupt climate change is a rapid change in environment.


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Science has to do with everything!

I feel the chances are our creators were from another planet. I wouldn't be surprised if we aren't just a hybrid between apes and alien DNA. I think it has something to do with the old "more pure" humans in the old days living for centuries. We probably share a lot of in common with the creators as it is said in the bible we were made in "his image" so I wouldn't be surprised as well that we don't share many ideals and tendencies as well as teachings and beliefs.

Perhaps they watch from above and below and perhaps they intervene when needed but don't do to much as per the agreement in which they want to see which ideology humanity ends up subscribing to. ie. Lucifers or Yahweh (For the sake of this post to me the two are no different than the ole CCCP vs USA)

It also goes on to say that we are made of clay and by taking the rib of another which I feel in itself points to the use of genetic alteration. In addition I just want to throw in, God, from the Bible runs a dictatorship and Lucifer is akin to libertarian. Just remember according to the Bible, Jesus comes back and sets up a righteous dictatorship with his princes.

In Star Wars, if you preferred the Intergalactic Empire then you probably would love God of the Bible.

*Note: Aside from the characters mentioned above I believe there a connection between all life not unlike the, and it makes me chuckle to say this, but, like the force in Star Wars (which is the true essence of the real creator and if I have to give a name so people can relate, God.)

Originally posted by intergalactic fire
reply to post by healthysceptic

 

Science has nothing to do with evolution of species.
Why are we still here has nothing to do with science.

Technically, you're right. But science provides an explanation as to how and why - that's all science is.

Originally posted by TheRemedial
I feel the chances are our creators were from another planet. I wouldn't be surprised if we aren't just a hybrid between apes and alien DNA. I think it has something to do with the old "more pure" humans in the old days living for centuries. We probably share a lot of in common with the creators as it is said in the bible we were made in "his image" so I wouldn't be surprised as well that we don't share many ideals and tendencies as well as teachings and beliefs.

But there's no evidence, or logic, to support that assertion. To say we're here because of alien intervention is simply a way of avoiding the complexities of evolution. Sure, it's an extremely difficult subject to comprehend when you examine the details, but it's real. Adaptation drives everything.

reply to post by healthysceptic


Oh I know, the concept just sits well in my mind and seems the most plausible after having read up on various Religions, Histories etc over the past fifteen, twenty years. I mean, honestly I could care less for what paid scientists theorize about as well as mystics or shamans or any other for that matter because, at the end of the day I am going to die and my own fantasy is as good as there's

Hey and if the truth is truly revealed at the time of death then let it be surprise. Just keeping it easy good sir, one way or another I am going down in flames and at least for me, I am content that it was my research and thoughts that made me believe the way I do.

It's win win and I am happy for it.

reply to post by healthysceptic

Yes, but science wont help us evoluate(if its the right term).
If its all about science, we wouldnt be here right now.

The thing science is doing right now is trying to change, alternate our evolution, the real nature of evolution.
Nowadays it has nothing to do anymore with the strongest survive.
Cause why else are we creating medecins to make even the weakest survive?

Originally posted by SG-17
No, I mean a full language. Not just signs like "Stay", "Sit", etc. Your dog does not know sign language.

Your dog did not pass the mirror test, no dog has and no dog will.

Your dog is only acting on predator instinct, it gets no more joy from killing than any other non-hominid/dolphin.

Your dog does not gather up other members of its "tribe" and launch surprise attacks on neighboring tribes.


Someone walking around barefoot isn't a rapid change in environment. It isn't adaption to a new environment either. We have already adapted to that long ago. You'll just develop callouses on your foot, after all we did go barefoot for thousands of years. Abrupt climate change is a rapid change in environment.


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Science has to do with everything!

edit on 5/17/2011 by SG-17 because: (no reason given)

Well I also dont know sign language. Explain what that is please?

Do you enjoy killing your neigbour for fun? Or is war just a mental dissorder?

Who prooved that animals or plants dont have awareness?

What about a mountainclimber, that has to adapt his body to the heights?
Why is it that this guys feet didnt starve after walking in the snow?(its a show i know, but could be true)
And my friends fingers turned out blue, almost black after one night sitting in a tent in a snowstorm?( he actually got lucky they recovered)

Originally posted by intergalactic fire
reply to post by healthysceptic

 

Yes, but science wont help us evoluate(if its the right term).
If its all about science, we wouldnt be here right now.

The thing science is doing right now is trying to change, alternate our evolution, the real nature of evolution.
Nowadays it has nothing to do anymore with the strongest survive.
Cause why else are we creating medecins to make even the weakest survive?

Natural selection doesn't mean the strongest will survive, it means that the best adapted for a specific environment will survive, i.e. if you have a predator that can run fast, and you have a group of prey of which some are fast and not so strong, or some that are slow and strong, who will survive?

reply to post by Hellhound604

So, evolution in humans, these days, has nothing to do anymore with natural selection?
To say it in a different way.

Originally posted by intergalactic fire
reply to post by Hellhound604

 

So, evolution in humans, these days, has nothing to do anymore with natural selection?
To say it in a different way.

No, not at all. I would say that humans are steering evolution in another way, maybe making us too dependent on modern stuff, like medicines, and making us perhaps too dependent on those. For example, take our dependance on antibiotics. There is a predator-prey adaption going on in nature, google "red queen hypothesis", in which any organism and its parasites keep on evolving just to keep pace. Now we use antibiotics, and kill of most of the bacteria, except the ones that are immune to this antibiotic. Now bacteria breeds incredibly fast, and within a couple of generations you have mostly bacteria that are immune to this antibiotic, and all of a sudden, the old antibiotic doesn't work anymore. It gets even worse than this, different types of bacteria can exchange nuclear material (bacterial conjugation), and some of it might be that part of the DNA that enables the other type of bacteria to be immune against that antibiotic, and guess what, all of a sudden, the new type of bacteria acquires immunity too. The bacteria keeps on adapting, so we vastly accelerate their evolution, and in the mean time, our own immune response does not undergo this accelerated adaptation....... the same applies to GM foods.......
Sickle cell anemia is another example. In countries where sickle-cell trait is endemic, they also have a high incidence of malaria-carrying mosquitoe's. Yet most people with sickle-cell trait anemia is not nearly as effected by the malaria-parasite as people that don't have that disease. (Cickle-cell anemia occurs when the gene is present both genes. In people with sickle-cell trait, it is only present in one gene, the other gene still express normal hemoglobin)Yet, we want to get rid of sickle-cell anemia, which is exactly what is needed for immunity against malaria. No, we rather want to poison vast areas with pesticides and choose to forget that natural selection drives everything.

but enough peeving, guess I need to start giving references :

sickle-cell anemia and malaria : sickle.bwh.harvard.edu...
bacterial conjugation : en.wikipedia.org...
red queen hypothesis : en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by intergalactic fire
If there is variation in traits and reproductive success, evolution by natural selection will always occur. Natural selection means differential reproduction, survival of those that reproduce or have the most viable grandchildren.

When there is no variation in traits and reproductive success, this would indicate resources are plentiful, and traits are free to vary because mating is more or less random. This is why island inhabitants betray a wide range of variation, due to the initial colonization of a new habitat with a rich ecology.

Regardless, evolution is occurring, and will always occur unless the current climate never changes, resources are not scarce, and nucleotide replication achieves flawless fidelity in all organisms.

Originally posted by TheRemedial
I feel the chances are our creators were from another planet. I wouldn't be surprised if we aren't just a hybrid between apes and alien DNA. I think it has something to do with the old "more pure" humans in the old days living for centuries. We probably share a lot of in common with the creators as it is said in the bible we were made in "his image" so I wouldn't be surprised as well that we don't share many ideals and tendencies as well as teachings and beliefs.

Perhaps they watch from above and below and perhaps they intervene when needed but don't do to much as per the agreement in which they want to see which ideology humanity ends up subscribing to. ie. Lucifers or Yahweh (For the sake of this post to me the two are no different than the ole CCCP vs USA)

It also goes on to say that we are made of clay and by taking the rib of another which I feel in itself points to the use of genetic alteration. In addition I just want to throw in, God, from the Bible runs a dictatorship and Lucifer is akin to libertarian. Just remember according to the Bible, Jesus comes back and sets up a righteous dictatorship with his princes.

In Star Wars, if you preferred the Intergalactic Empire then you probably would love God of the Bible.

*Note: Aside from the characters mentioned above I believe there a connection between all life not unlike the, and it makes me chuckle to say this, but, like the force in Star Wars (which is the true essence of the real creator and if I have to give a name so people can relate, God.)

edit on 17-5-2011 by TheRemedial because: (no reason given)

edit on 17-5-2011 by TheRemedial because: (no reason given)

There's no evidence of "alien" DNA in the human genetic code, how could you assume something so silly?

Originally posted by TheRemedial
We probably share a lot of in common with the creators as it is said in the bible we were made in "his image" so I wouldn't be surprised as well

It appears that your judgment about human lineage is severely tarnished by both ancient religious mythology and modern alien mythology. While it is a fun hypothesis, neither mythologies are backed by any evidence whatsoever. Fortunately, scientific inquiry and process has lead to a solid understanding of human evolution. It's worth taking the time to learn and understand.

Funny, my same words I used on one of Slayer69's threads:"If we evolved from apes why are there still apes?" No worries, there are still apes and then there is us. Big difference. Like someone else said on there, if there are wolves why are there dogs?" Well, big difference is that we don't continue to bark, like the canine group does. Primates don't have language and thus far have not proven to me at least the ability to learn multiple languages like for example my sixteen year old son, who has learned the Spanish language in addition to his mother tongue, English. Go figure.