Stephen Hawking: 'There is no heaven; it's a fairy story'

When the lights go out the show is over folks the end.

reply to post by FlyingSkullOfDeath


I'm a militant Atheist, so had you fully read and understood the quote I posted you would have understood that; in this instance unique chemical qualities as in the quote, for crystals as well as life makes statistical models unreliable, maybe even unworkable. You answered as if I was supporting the probability math they use to try debunk evolution. Also it seems a shift from your earlier posts. I have to suspect you're trolling.

Originally posted by goldentorch
reply to post by FlyingSkullOfDeath

 

I'm a militant Atheist, so had you fully read and understood the quote I posted you would have understood that; in this instance unique chemical qualities as in the quote, for crystals as well as life makes statistical models unreliable, maybe even unworkable. You answered as if I was supporting the probability math they use to try debunk evolution. Also it seems a shift from your earlier posts. I have to suspect you're trolling.

Yes, you are a committed Atheist, committed to your religion.
And you must have very strong faith to believe that 10^5000
probabilities could ever take place, even to form the simplest
cell. And what faith to believe that Order comes from Chaos,
that Laws come from NO Law Giver, that the random collision
of atoms will produce exquisite Design.

I beg to differ

Originally posted by SusyQ30
You know whether other people believe or not, you ask any Christian who believes in God and heaven, they are not afraid of death. You go to a Christian funeral and people are more at peace, yet you go to a funeral of an unsaved person they are not nearly as peaceful. With the unsaved its usually mourning, with the saved its celebration.

I can`t wait.

Originally posted by wantsome
When the lights go out the show is over folks the end.

I would just like to hear Hawking's thoughts on telepathy. I've had moments when I text a person after a month and she does the same at the exact same second. It can't be coincidence. Maybe there is a bigger consciousness.

The person you are today is a result of how your synapses are routed. When you die your memories are purged from existence and thus you no longer exist(because the brain dies first). Whatever remains is a thin imprint of your once existence and in time that too shall fade away. Eventually you shall return to nothingness......However there is something that galvanizes the chemical processes in our body responsible for life. Perhaps this is all that remains once the body perishes. It is perhaps then utilized to set the cycle of life moving again (Do not misconstrue this a re-interpretation of the biological cycle).....I wonder if it is possible that all of life is an entity in itself? (That would be the closest thing to god)


Thus even if it were possible to somehow re-animate a dead body the life that has come into being would not be the same person. The way your body moves is a result of electrical impulses sent by the brain. Thus it is possible to make limbs move in a corpse to a certain extent by way of a controlled electromagnetic current (I am not sure of the specifics)...however this does not mean that the shambling corpse in question is now alive.

There are only actions and consequences while good and evil are arbitrary concepts invented by human beings. They are merely states of the mind, nothing more.There can be no absolutes such as a place of absolute evil (hell) or absolute good(Heaven)...such ideas are indeed apocryphal and merely perspectives.

I realize that I present a rather bleak perspective but it is all for the better. I remember a quote from movie troy and it went something like this "I'll tell you a secret. Something they don't teach you in your temple. The Gods envy us. They envy us because we're mortal, because any moment might be our last. Everything is more beautiful because we're doomed. You will never be lovelier than you are now. We will never be here again.

It really cracks me up that someone so intelligent cannot see the reality of the subjective state of peace vs the subjective state of chaos...

It's one thing for him to be like "Heaven is not an objective reality but a subjective one" It's a whole other thing to dismiss the concept out of hand like a fool.

If there is no existance after death then we do not exist in this instance. To believe this is all there is is as closed minded as you can get. I do believe in God and I do know there is an afterlife. In what form, well that's the exciting thing about it. We're all energy and energy is constant, so we move on just in a different form.

reply to post by 547000


ignorance continues....
clearly....

reply to post by HunkaHunka


Heaven is a subjective idea contrived by human beings as a metaphysical place of existence. It depends on what your definition of heaven is though or the connotations it carries for you,. If it is as the bible postulates as a place of absolute good then it is a fallacious claim for good and evil are states of the mind, nothing more. The very nature of true evil is to be self serving and if there is a god then it must be more evil than good. ..........Both are only perspectives and as elementary as light and dark for neither can exist without the other. I suppose that the idea that such a place exists might work to give you solace.

Originally posted by Quadraphobe
reply to post by 547000

 

ignorance continues....
clearly....

The only ignorance I see is the ignorance of people who have not experienced for themselves anything non-material. I can assure you that there is a spiritual fire.

At the end of the day people will believe what they want to believe. I personally believe that there has to be something but would'nt argue with anyone that says there isn't as thats the personal opinion and they are entitled to it.

I am amazed at how such an intelligent society can still be enamored with the bible and it's ridiculous teachings. The bible is so contradictory it isn't even funny. Thou shalt not kill - yet god commands David to kill Goliath. Thou shalt not commit adultery - yet many biblical figures favored by god had many wives, and some had concubines. Don't get me wrong, man needs religion. Otherwise chaos would rein supreme. But the thought of some egotistical being who is all knowing and powerful who needs my every waking moment to feed that ego really doesn't sit well with me.

It is also very convenient that religion has safety nets in place for anyone who doubts it. At every turn you are instructed to "have faith". Sorry, need physical proof. The church once murdered those who disputed that the earth was the center of the universe, yet eventually they were proven wrong. More people have died in the name of religion than for any other purpose! If there is life after death, surely some soul would have figured out how to contact us to let us know. After all some of the most intelligent humans to walk the face of the earth have died. I would think their souls were just as intelligent and would have figured out by now how to contact us.

If bible thumpers really sat back and thought about what they were reading, they would see how foolish it is. The bible is no different than Homer's The Odyssey. Myths and legends. Stories and traditions borrowed from previous civilizations to fatten their wallets and control the masses. Religion is a form of terrorism that dupes people into false beliefs in the hope they will spend their way into a better place when they die by giving to the church. It justifies their feeble existence and allows them to cope with having nothing, while giving them the promise of the "holy grail" of all rewards...riches in heaven.

Mr. Hawking, have you lived for a few quintillion years? Nope, you have not. Have you died? Nope. Now please attempt to prove to me again that there is no heaven.

Originally posted by haarvik
I am amazed at how such an intelligent society can still be enamored with the bible and it's ridiculous teachings. The bible is so contradictory it isn't even funny. Thou shalt not kill - yet god commands David to kill Goliath. Thou shalt not commit adultery - yet many biblical figures favored by god had many wives, and some had concubines. Don't get me wrong, man needs religion. Otherwise chaos would rein supreme. But the thought of some egotistical being who is all knowing and powerful who needs my every waking moment to feed that ego really doesn't sit well with me.

It is also very convenient that religion has safety nets in place for anyone who doubts it. At every turn you are instructed to "have faith". Sorry, need physical proof. The church once murdered those who disputed that the earth was the center of the universe, yet eventually they were proven wrong. More people have died in the name of religion than for any other purpose! If there is life after death, surely some soul would have figured out how to contact us to let us know. After all some of the most intelligent humans to walk the face of the earth have died. I would think their souls were just as intelligent and would have figured out by now how to contact us.

If bible thumpers really sat back and thought about what they were reading, they would see how foolish it is. The bible is no different than Homer's The Odyssey. Myths and legends. Stories and traditionsn borrowed from previous civilizations to fatten their wallets and control the masses. Religion is a form of terrorism that dupes people into false beliefs in the hope they will spend their way into a better place when they die by giving to the church. It justifies their feeble existence and allows them to cope with having nothing, while giving them the promise of the "holy grail" of all rewards...riches in heaven.

Some people not born Christians have experiences that make them Christians. If you had no such experience it all sounds foolish.

reply to post by 547000


It's amazing how you bible thumpers can sit back and tout how the bible is the end all be all, yet have not one shred of proof. I am thoroughly versed in the christian religion and the bible. My mother was Wesleyan Methodist. I can pick apart any argument you bible thumpers can throw out there and show how flawed your religion is. But no matter how many holes you blow into it, the fact remains that without your precious crutch you would have no reason for existing. You are no different than the alcoholic or drug addict. Your addiction is Christianity.

Once again, like others on this board, where's the proof? I tell you what, if God makes me a multimillionaire in the next seven days, I will devote the rest of my life to worshiping him. So, if your "God" is all you claim this should be no big deal. Let him prove he exists. Show me the money!

Originally posted by gemineye
reply to post by spacedonk

 

He may be a smart guy, but when it comes to knowing whether heaven exists or not, he doesn't know any more than the rest of us.

edit on 5/16/2011 by gemineye because: (no reason given)

I was thinking the exact same thing, its like Elvis giving a speech on religion, pointless, he's got no more insight.

Originally posted by haarvik
reply to post by 547000

 

It's amazing how you bible thumpers can sit back and tout how the bible is the end all be all, yet have not one shred of proof. I am thoroughly versed in the christian religion and the bible. My mother was Wesleyan Methodist. I can pick apart any argument you bible thumpers can throw out there and show how flawed your religion is. But no matter how many holes you blow into it, the fact remains that without your precious crutch you would have no reason for existing. You are no different than the alcoholic or drug addict. Your addiction is Christianity.

Once again, like others on this board, where's the proof? I tell you what, if God makes me a multimillionaire in the next seven days, I will devote the rest of my life to worshiping him. So, if your "God" is all you claim this should be no big deal. Let him prove he exists. Show me the money!

You have no proof, and nothing I can tell you will prove a thing for you. I have proof for myself but you will not accept my testimony. You'll either accuse me of being delusional or lying, talk about how anecdotes are not scientific and miracles are not permitted in a naturalistic universe, or come up with some explanation about mind over matter or something New Agey about how we co-create the universe.

There is knowing by argument and knowing by experience. I have the latter.

I do like Hawking's ideas of Different or many Universes. But...

I often wonder if Our Universe reaches a point, where it stops expanding, then rapidly collapses under it own gravity, to its Zero point, where all matter is collapsed into infinite mass.

Then...The Big Bang occurs again, recycling that same mass, and so to all creation begins again, all Galaxys and Stars and Planets all form again, but in a different naturally random way, over the next 20 billion Earth years or so...Which may only be a fraction of time that the Universe exists. And all the various elements are sparked once more into a miriad of life forms. Aliens boldly go where no human has gone before. Only to have the Universe, once again, collapse at some future eon in time and space.
To be reduced to that singularity, yet then...for the Big Bang "Spark of Life" to occur once again, to be reborn and resume that cycle of existance to expand and flourish, minutely changing and modifying life at each rebirth.........to ultimately collapse, to respark that cycle of creation, ad infinitum......... to infinity and beyond!!!

Just a thought. We will never know thats for sure.