The Earth is a lot older than 6000-10,000 years, get over it!

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


No sane person would ever claim the earth is 6000 years old.

You say the religious folks make such ludicrous statements ?

That's what I mean.

Originally posted by Cuervo
reply to post by madnessinmysoul

 

My first reaction to this OP was "Who thinks the world is only 10,000 years old?! That's like saying 'News flash! The world is round!'"

But, of course, I was wrong. There are people who believe that and I saw arguing starting on the first page. Holy crap. And the people who insist we are only a certain age seem to do so in defense of their religion. That makes no sense to me. An Earth that is millions of years old fits into most religious doctrine, even Christianity. Same with evolution, heliocentricity, etc.

I don't recall God ever saying that the Earth was only 10,000 years old. Heck, we even have hints of civilization older than that!

edit on 16-5-2011 by Cuervo because: need. more. coffee...

God told Moses on Mt Sinai, when He gave Moses the Ten Commandments (Exodus 20:8 - 11).....

Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day.

So, I guess God doesn't understand what 6 days mean, huh? Or could he have meant that those were really LOOOOOONNNNNGGGG days and so that Sabbath then, is to be celebrated for how many days??

But admittedly, this takes one to believe the Bible, the Word of God. If you (or anyone) choose not to believe that the Bible is the Word of God, then any of this topical argument is superfluos and unnecessary.

There is opinions and scientific debate upon the age of the universe, and many many many many things debated about the universe, life, etc. Most of it is pure speculation and theory, based upon a basic assumption that there is no God, and therefore something else is responsible for all we see and know. But, just as those theories cannot all be proven, likewise NO ONE can prove God doesn't exist. To do so, means you must have complete knowledge of everything, lest He should exist in the areas of incomplete knowledge one has (which is the vast majority of knowledge).

And I dont need to prove that God exists. He doesn't task me with that responsibility, rather I am to tell people about what He has done in my life and tell people about Him, to His Glory!

But all of you who presume to know the Word of God, and then state major errors, need to actually read the Word first, then you will know the dangers of assigning anthropomorphic terms to God. He made time. He made the heavens and the earth. And in Job chapter 40, God asks Job (in answering Job's complaints and whining) about "where was he [Job] when He [God] laid the foundations of the world? In other words how would Job, as a mere human, know about the things of God (something many people need to ask themselves).

And a few verses into it, God has begun to reference some amazing wonders that He created and asks Job about them. One is a creature called a "behemoth". And in verse 15, God tells Job:

Look now at the behemoth, which I made along with you

now a careful reading of this chapter (and 41 afterward) shows to mighty creatures that can only be dinosaurs. And God TOLD JOB " MADE THEM ALONG WITH YOU"(at the same time), which is on Day 6 of the Genesis account of the Creation.

reply to post by simonsayz


I can';t disagree with most christians accepting what the book tells them without thinking...I have to say that I was once disenchanted with "the Book" because I accepted evolutionism and age of the earth etc...

That is until I started to go beyond the accept what scientists tell you phase and I actually delved into the actual EVIDENCE supporting it.

Most people never see the actual evidences, they see contrivances that are masqueraded as evidence.

When you study the history of the various sciences, you will begin to see a pattern develop and it isn't one of getting closer to any truth, it is more one of contrivance upon contrivance created from the ashes of actual evidences to prove the unproveable in an effort to keep theories that should've been discarded alive.

The biggest of which is Evolution, or rather any part of evolutionary theory except for micro evolution.

Talk about a fable...

This is off topic and I don't want to get into another evolutionary debate in this thread.

The evidence supporting an old earth is circular at best and completely unsupported at worst.

I am agnostic, I believe that either and both could be true. Yes, BOTH... It comes down to semantics but they could both be true at the same time.

If you can extrapolate some original thought and implication from my first post in this thread, you will see what I'm referring to.

Jaden

Originally posted by johngrissom

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
The Earth is approximately 4.57 billion years old (1% margin of error there).
Citation 1
Citation 2
Citation 3

To say that the Earth is 6000 years old is just plain wrong. It's not even close. It's 0.000131291028% of the Earth's actual age. The scale of wrongness is just so staggering that I can't think of an appropriate way to construct an analogy. I mean, the margin of error on the measurement of the Earth's age is actually larger than the age proposed by some people.

Now, there is actual science out there that proves that the Earth is 4.57 billion years old (1% margin of error), where is the science that proves that the Earth is 6000-10,000 years old/

So curious as to what science firm you work at?
Joke thread

But thanks John Kerry for that non-smart information about your logic.

PROOF OR GTFO!
And the internet isnt proof

edit on 15-5-2011 by johngrissom because: (no reason given)

i like how he goes "your wrong, give proof!!!"
the end
no counter argument, no reason as to why hes wrong, just your wrong.

and, even if he is wrong, i would like to see you come up with some evidence to the contrary,
where is your evidence that man has only been here for 4 or 5 thousand years, GOOD LUCK GUY, because there are countless examples to show other wise (Mesopotamia, stone henge, 20,000 year old native american artifacts) and internet doesnt count, i want physical carbon dated certified real evidence that we have only been around for 5 thousand years.

sorry Christians, but you cant be right EVERY time.

reply to post by Masterjaden


i consider myself agnostic, but as an agnostic, you don't believe in God unless evidence and proof are shown
i am very open minded about these things
it is when i start to question and answers that are given out of proportion and without logic, that is when i lean more on not believing

i say im atheist to christians because when i say im agnostic, they go through so much to try to convert me
the things that come out of their mouth really amazes me or rather entertains me

i practically bash on God all the time, i question the existence of jesus all the time, i make fun of them
and all i ask is show Himself to me
apparently He shows himself to christians but not to an agnostic person like me..and i even said i am open minded

i bash cuz i want proof and so does every other nonbelievers

reply to post by TrailGator


Actually, I was always under the impression that the 7 days simply meant 7 stages. Often, in Hebrew, you see "seven" where really it's a unit, like a "week". You can have a week of days, a week of years, or a week of stages. Even if my Hebrew is off here (totally possible, I'm not Jewish), I would at least have taken it metaphorically as stages. Look at Revelations! You cannot possibly take that literally, without an allegorical mindset.

reply to post by simonsayz


Ok, When I said I"m agnostic it's about the age of the earth. I absolutely and unequivacably believe in God. But not as is commonly understood. God is the consciousness of Totality. Everything is a frequency of energy. You and I when we consider and ponder on ourselves, our individual consciuosness, what we are talking about is a specific frequency of energy that is captured and processed by the electrical impulses in these bodies' brains. Now we can debate whether or not the bodies really exist because the only thing I can truly prove to you is that your consciousness exists, but that's besides the point.

For a long time, I didn't believe the bible as it was written because it didn't make logical sense to me how a human sacrifice on the cross could make a # bit of difference to all of humanity and then it dawned on me one day.

If Jesus was the human form of the Holy Spirit or God, then that means that the frequency of energy captured by Jesus' body was that of the universal consciousness, and by him sacrificing himself, that opened up the universal consciousness to all mankind...

It's not that Christians pull Jesus into their heart, it's that they stop blocking the universal consciousness from entering. This is also where conscience flows. So the more you open yourself to God, Jesus, the universal consciousness, the greater and more heavily your conscience will weigh on you.

You also don't have to believe in Jesus to accept it...(oh no, the blasphemy)...

There are many paths to the top of a mountain. Some more abrupt and difficult to climb. Some that cut back and forth and come back down the mountain at times before going back up.

Just some food for thought because I know that you have not likely heard it in a way that makes any logical sense before...

Jaden

Originally posted by Cuervo
reply to post by TrailGator

 

Actually, I was always under the impression that the 7 days simply meant 7 stages. Often, in Hebrew, you see "seven" where really it's a unit, like a "week". You can have a week of days, a week of years, or a week of stages. Even if my Hebrew is off here (totally possible, I'm not Jewish), I would at least have taken it metaphorically as stages. Look at Revelations! You cannot possibly take that literally, without an allegorical mindset.

thanks for the logical and conversational response, Cuervo!

First, I would have to say that there are major differences - and thus way off topic for this occasion, although I would love to chat about it another time - to compare the apocryphal language used in the Revelation, with the creation account in Genesis. But in fact, the Hebrew word here in Genesis 1 (and in the Exodus verse I referenced above does mean "day", as in a literal 24 hour day. Second God referred to it (as I already quoted), many other writers and people in the Old and New Testament referred to the time as literal days. Moses, David, Isaiah, Job, Paul, Peter and lets not forget Jesus Himself referenced the creation as literal 24 hour days (as it says in genesis "he called he darkness "night", and the light "day"). The word is the same in every instance.

God is the One who institued the 7 day week. All other units of the calendar are measured by astronomical movements of the heavenly bodies, but not the "week". This Word is where we read about this and why its seven days and not 6 or not 8 or whatever.

See, I admit that I am a Christian and I believe by FAITH that God exists, and God created the heavens and the earth in 6 literal 24 hour days. Since I believe this, I must believe the truth of the Word. To my way of thinking, if someone doesn't believe what it says (and I dont specifically mean you, Cuervo), then I wonder where else they might compromise The Word.

reply to post by Masterjaden


i know two people that were hardcore anti-jesus/god
they said they felt a warm light and a voice saying their name and turned into christian
they weren't opened about it like how I am

the first thing that came to my mind when they had the same story (they don't know each other)
that warm light is the Sun beaming at them
Voice speaking to them, that's called for a mental problem/delusion
but put that Voice with the name of God, then he/she are normal

if God has the power to speak to everyone why wouldn't he speak to me when I always question it

when you told me to open up more and more...this is what you refer to as "having faith"
again that just means being blinded by the truth and accept what's given to you

reply to post by TrailGator


I commend you for sticking to your guns. Like I said, even if I can be convinced that it were literal in meaning (which you pretty much did for me), I would still take it as allegorical. If you really wanted to take Genesis literally, you and I could have some crazy conversations about it, for sure.

One thought though about the OP: Before space, there could be no time. So... really a day could have meant anything in the time preceding the big bang.

When discussing things within the confines of a Biblical Christian reality, anything can be possible since there is an omnipotent diety and it becomes difficult (but fun) to debate just about anything.

reply to post by primoaurelius


>sorry Christians, but you cant be right EVERY time.

Hmm...

You seem hung up on 'proof'.

That is an interesting approach...

Where to begin... How about the 'beginning'?

'Science' has one of those 'beginning' thingies. Some people call it the 'Big Bang' theory.

You obviously sound like you know a LOT... Maybe you could share with us YOUR proof.

You do understand that once you scratch off the marketing glossy...

'Big Bang' comes down to SOMETHING was created out of NOTHING?



Let me show you the equation:

0 = 1

Am I talking too fast?

reply to post by malcr


The Bible does not say how old the earth is just so you know.
One man tried to go back in time using (i believe) Noah as a start point and tried to trace his blood line back to Adam. He came up with about 7,000 years old. He was wrong but some people still believe this and others think its in the Bible (showing only that they never read it).

Originally posted by golemina
reply to post by primoaurelius

 

>sorry Christians, but you cant be right EVERY time.

Hmm...

You seem hung up on 'proof'.

That is an interesting approach...

Where to begin... How about the 'beginning'?

'Science' has one of those 'beginning' thingies. Some people call it the 'Big Bang' theory.

You obviously sound like you know a LOT... Maybe you could share with us YOUR proof.

You do understand that once you scratch off the marketing glossy...

'Big Bang' comes down to SOMETHING was created out of NOTHING?

Let me show you the equation:

0 = 1

Am I talking too fast?

two words for you
Casimir Effect

reply to post by madnessinmysoul

The Earth is a lot older than 6000-10,000 years, get over it!

Just out of curiosity, why is it so important to you that other people must 'get over' their personal beliefs? Please explain, in detail if you don't mind, why someone believing the world was 6-10k years old is such a problem?

This is akin to the government becoming distressed over conspiracy theorists and setting out to work infiltrators to reeducate us in the official story of existence, don't you think?

Hey, but you go right ahead and believe as you choose. In my world, that's okay. You're allowed. You ought to stop by for a visit some time lol.

Cheers

reply to post by painterdude

Originally posted by painterdude
For the younger side, I do like the whole moon's recession rate from earth thing,

Except that that it's entirely false.

but magnetic field decay really sounds a lot more scientific.

Key word, sounds.

I'm so confused.

Well, that's what happens when people spread misinformation.

reply to post by Caleb.K


Well, nobody believes that. I'm happy to say that I know I can trace the evolutionary lineage of that 'evolved from a rock' thing to one Kent Hovind. It's a straw man.

reply to post by korathin

Originally posted by korathin

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
The Earth is approximately 4.57 billion years old (1% margin of error there).
Citation 1
Citation 2
Citation 3

To say that the Earth is 6000 years old is just plain wrong. It's not even close. It's 0.000131291028% of the Earth's actual age. The scale of wrongness is just so staggering that I can't think of an appropriate way to construct an analogy. I mean, the margin of error on the measurement of the Earth's age is actually larger than the age proposed by some people.

Now, there is actual science out there that proves that the Earth is 4.57 billion years old (1% margin of error), where is the science that proves that the Earth is 6000-10,000 years old/

I loathe atheist's.

At least you admit it.

First you start off with an illogical argument that Christians/Jews claim the world is only 6k years old.

Read the OP. I never said anything about Christians or Jews, I merely stated that those who claim the world is 6000-10,000 years old are wrong. I didn't specify any groups. I even went so far as to post later that this definitely doesn't apply to everyone in any group.

You have to remember Catholics aren't that bright(one of the many reasons I left that Church). I had a Catholic friend try and tell me the Sabbath(7th day of the week) as defined in the old testament was on Sunday(to those who don't know the correct answer is Saturday!).

Bigotry against Catholics and atheists, that's not a first.

The 6-7k BC is around the time of the flood and the end of the antediluvian civilizations.

You believe that whole silly flood story?

Even if you take a literal reading of the Bible it just isn't possible(meaning a literal reading wouldn't allow for the Earth to be made around 6-7 BC). Because Adam and Eve lived in Eden for who knows how long.

So you loathe atheists for fictional reasons and don't understand what's in the Bible? Adam's age can actually be derived from the lineages provided in the Bible, he dies at 930, making him the second oldest character in the Bible.

Then got kicked out had a family and them and their kids lived for a pretty long time. Then enough time passed that the "just kicked out of Eden" phase seemed to have been Ancient history(like how we view the Greeks/Romans). Then add in flood+ rebuilding.

Yeah, and none of this is supported by evidence. In fact, it's just as unsupported as the idea that the Earth is 6-10,000 years old.

Just accept that Catholics as a bunch are brain dead idiots who can't even understand their own faith(Catholicism goes against the Bible in so many way's it is sickening).

Wow, more insults, shocking. Catholics aren't typically young Earth creationists. I know because I used to be one too.
They tend to be old Earthers who believe that humans were specially created or at the very least went through guided evolution.

reply to post by TheEmpath


I guess we'll just have to toss out forensics if that's your idea. If you commit a murder without any direct witnesses, you get off completely free.

Hell, might as well toss out archeology while we're at it. What are we going to learn about people from the things they actually used? We weren't even there.

Listen, this is a ridiculous statement. I am ridiculing it for that reason.

reply to post by renegade1179


No, I've actually read it. I unfortunately have to read it when I reference it in discussions with Christians and Jews as well. I'm 'ragging on' the people who don't accept the scientific facts that contradict what the Bible says.

reply to post by Ubeen


They've learned to correct for the fluctuations. I'm not going to bother to reference it as you can even bother to find it on Wikipedia and I have too many posts to go through.

I don't worship science, but I sure as hell rely on it to learn about the natural world.