IMF Leader Arrested After Alleged Sex Attack

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
reply to post by Illusionsaregrander

 

I wasn't demonizing Jefferson, I admit we as humans all have flaws or deviations, some more than others. I wanted to show that even our most enlightened of the founding elite, was not the average person or the most benign.

I know you werent. I was merely illustrating that while his definition of "we the people" was more limited that ours today, and is now politically correct, his loyalty to "we the people" was absolute. He just defined it more narrowly than we currently do.

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
He was consistent is firm belief in America and what it could be one day. He never gave up on America and did everything in his lifetime to make America great. He was loyal to the Republic.

Absolutely.

Originally posted by MikeboydUS

In my view there are those in the modern complexes like Jefferson, but for every Jefferson there is a Hamilton, the founder who wanted make Washington into a king and drag us back to London. There are also Benedict Arnolds, who you think are loyal patriots until they get their ego hurt and betray their cause out of selfish ambition.

Absolutely. And the core of my argument is that the corporatists, and globalists are the modern day Benedict Arnolds, and it isnt so much that their ego got hurt, its that their ego places itself above the group. Its pure selfish ambition, without any specific provocation. They are just sociopaths. In the sense that they have no loyalty to the group. Their loyalty is to themselves at the expense of the group, always. They cooperate only to the degree necessary to further their own ends, and even their allies in one moment must remain on guard should the balance of power shift and that alliance no longer be necessary.

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
I agree with that, Benedict Arnold a good example. Anyone who does anything that is detrimental to the future of the Republic in my eyes is a traitor to his own nation, especially putting self before country, like Arnold. Patriotism is a selfless and honorable act. I have served this nation for almost 12 years, including in Iraq and Afghanistan, and I do not for one second regret that service.

People that exploit the citizens of this great Republic or worse betray her out of selfish personal ambition are not patriots, but traitors.

Precisely. And globalists and corporatists are exploiting the nation at the expense of the nation. Both in terms of actual money, use of our military, and our sovereignty and Constitution. They are tearing the nation down economically and actually to further their own economic ambitions.

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
Even worse, if we failt to keep that vision of liberty, we will descend into tyranny like Rome before. That is my worst fear that one day we will not be guided by Liberty but lead by Tyranny into oblivion.

I would argue that we are already on the road to oblivion and have had both feet firmly planted on it since the 1970's at least. Although the push towards the road to oblivion has been much longer. As you point out so clearly, as did Jefferson, the push towards the road to oblivion has been with us from the very inception of the nation.

Originally posted by svetlana84

-- The maid; she's allegedly 32 years old, african living in the bronx, having a kid. I have not seen Pictures of her
(please post if you find some -woul be interesting.) How to put it politically correct ? My guess is she is not the hottest target, especially for a guy who has enough money to order whatever he likes.

.
Um, excuse me?
Firstly, if it were a frame they would have done much better getting some white Eastern European girl to frame him. The US has a long storied history of dismissing crimes (especially rape) committed against African-American women or any derivative thereof. Very few people would believe her, and more than likely he was aware of this and considered her an easy mark.
You make the assumption that she is ugly...well, according to you. I could say more but will simply leave it at that.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


Thanks for your anwsers, interesting point of view in the first one, true that men sometimes just loose their head, and even go for a park bench..
Could well be the case here, and if it is, it's good when justice is done.

Sofitel, by the way is a well a bit weird: google image search "sofitel toilet" shows their toilet in a Queenstown hotel; they have pictures of female models looking at/taking pictures of the men doind their business !?


Thanks for the info on the Vice Chief, didn't know that yet.

reply to post by svetlana84


I will point out again that the possibility he is guilty of the sexual assault and the possibility that he is being set up are NOT mutually exclusive. If he is known to be a "hot rabbit" (and it appears that he is) its possible that there were people just biding their time until he did something stupid again, (because he has been in more than his share of sex scandals as a public figure) and this time, they removed the net of support and aid that has been there in the past.

Not protecting someone from the consequences of their actions who has been in the past protected from the consequences of their own actions could be construed as a "set up" in a sense, if the person in question is not informed of the rule change.

It is still possible that the maid was approached by someone and paid a good sum of money to lure him into some act and then cry rape. She is a poor woman, a single parent, and enough money might be enough of a reason for her to be willing to participate in something like this.

It really is just a toss up. My motive for arguing against certain points isnt to prove him guilty. Its to argue against or for certain logical lines. Many of the reasons people have put forth for him having no motive to have sex with her simply dont hold up under scrutiny. But thats not to say he isnt being set up. Just that those lines of reasoning are deeply flawed.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
reply to post by svetlana84

 

It is still possible that the maid was approached by someone and paid a good sum of money to lure him into some act and then cry rape. She is a poor woman, a single parent, and enough money might be enough of a reason for her to be willing to participate in something like this.

Well if they did approach her and offer money, I hope she is getting a couple million plus because the crap that the cops, his lawyers, the judicial system, the name calling public, the media and the thinly-veiled racist commentators are going to put her through is going to be worth nothing less than that.
If they wanted to set him up and make the charges stick they should have chosen someone else. Even if it wasn't a set up, her life is ruined (like the guy who discovered the Watergate-Break-In).
I'm willing to bet that the charges don't stick.
(Place you bets here)
BTW, I heard on CNN that Mr. (ex) IMF is a 'jail, no bail' situation.

Here is something interesting i found. Hope it is not posted already.
Apparently, in an interview given on 04/28/2011 DSK suspected something was coming.

DSK then talks about ending up in a men's room with Sarkozy, during an international summit, and asks him to stop the dirty tricks about his private life. Wanting to pose as a victim, DSK starts imagining "a woman (he might have) raped in a parking lot and to whom half a million or a million euros would be promised to make up such a story..." (Another translation of the paragraph says, "He said he could see himself becoming the victim of a honey trap.") Obviously, he was right to put the "women" challenge first.
www.businessinsider.com...

reply to post by PaganArchangel


Unfortunately, for someone with her income, in the area she is in, in the circumstances she is in they probably would not have had to offer her very much at all. Maybe 20-50k? People kill people for less than that. Risking the death penalty for sometimes a couple grand, but those are often drug users, or people who have shady characters to begin with, and it does cost more to buy off a better quality of person.

NOT, mind you, that I am saying I believe that she has been bought off. Only that it is plausible, and possible. Even if she is otherwise a good person. Poverty and lack of options CAN make people do things you wouldnt normally expect of them based on their character.

But it is a possibility, and in the interests of fair discussion, it should stay on the table. Even if I personally do not believe it to be the case. I think there is plenty in his background to suggest she is telling the truth, and he did what she said he did.

We just dont have enough hard evidence at this point to justify a conclusion on way or the other, although its perfectly fair to have a point of view you lean towards.

Originally posted by GalacticJoe
Here is something interesting i found. Hope it is not posted already.
Apparently, in an interview given on 04/28/2011 DSK suspected something was coming.

DSK then talks about ending up in a men's room with Sarkozy, during an international summit, and asks him to stop the dirty tricks about his private life. Wanting to pose as a victim, DSK starts imagining "a woman (he might have) raped in a parking lot and to whom half a million or a million euros would be promised to make up such a story..." (Another translation of the paragraph says, "He said he could see himself becoming the victim of a honey trap.") Obviously, he was right to put the "women" challenge first.
www.businessinsider.com...

This guy set himself up (untintentionally). He has a history of making sexual advances..but things aren't over here like they are in France. If it was indeed a set up, they used his own weakness against him.
If he was going to crap he should have done it in his own backyard where apparently this kind of thing is tolerated.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
reply to post by PaganArchangel

 

Unfortunately, for someone with her income, in the area she is in, in the circumstances she is in they probably would not have had to offer her very much at all. Maybe 20-50k? People kill people for less than that. Risking the death penalty for sometimes a couple grand, but those are often drug users, or people who have shady characters to begin with, and it does cost more to buy off a better quality of person.

NOT, mind you, that I am saying I believe that she has been bought off. Only that it is plausible, and possible. Even if she is otherwise a good person. Poverty and lack of options CAN make people do things you wouldnt normally expect of them based on their character.

But it is a possibility, and in the interests of fair discussion, it should stay on the table. Even if I personally do not believe it to be the case. I think there is plenty in his background to suggest she is telling the truth, and he did what she said he did.

We just dont have enough hard evidence at this point to justify a conclusion on way or the other, although its perfectly fair to have a point of view you lean towards.

True..people have killed for less....I feel sorry for her either way, because if they did say they were going to pay her and in the end didn't (for whatever nebulous reason) what could she do about it..her life is still ruined..this is a lose/lose situation for her. She will find out what real American Justice is about as it applies to people like her.
As I said earlier, if this was a real rape and I was her I'd be inclined not to go to the the police but to take care of the situation at a much later date in a private manner.
But then, that's me.
BTW,CNN was saying that an hour after the guy got busted 'conspiracy theory' sites were saying that he may be getting set up...

I think we are being watched, lol

reply to post by PaganArchangel


Your always being watched.

At least on the Internet, by your ISP and whoever they sell or give data to.

The media on the other hand is aware of ATS and I think they see it as a competitor, one that needs to be eliminated or brought under their umbrella.

The day Google, Facebook, Comcast, NewsCorp, etc. buys ATS, is the day I stop being a member.

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
reply to post by PaganArchangel

 

Your always being watched.

At least on the Internet, by your ISP and whoever they sell or give data to.

The media on the other hand is aware of ATS and I think they see it as a competitor, one that needs to be eliminated or brought under their umbrella.

The day Google, Facebook, Comcast, NewsCorp, etc. buys ATS, is the day I stop being a member.

I totally agree with you on all points. The MSM's preoccupation with sites like ATS of late is both exciting and at the same time a bit disturbing (but that's another talk show lol).

Originally posted by PaganArchangel

True..people have killed for less....I feel sorry for her either way, because if they did say they were going to pay her and in the end didn't (for whatever nebulous reason) what could she do about it..her life is still ruined..this is a lose/lose situation for her. She will find out what real American Justice is about as it applies to people like her.

I feel sorry for her either way too.

And, I DONT feel sorry for DSK either way. Whether he did it, or whether he is being set up, he sounds like a real jerk, and even though I care about justice, I sure dont care about his suffering.

Originally posted by PaganArchangel
BTW,CNN was saying that an hour after the guy got busted 'conspiracy theory' sites were saying that he may be getting set up...

I think we are being watched, lol

I think the "conspiracy theory" line the MSM has been mooing about in relation to several topics actually has another purpose. Ive been thinking about it.

The first time I heard it was when watching clips of Obama thrashing Trump with it over the birth certificate issue. And then they brought it up ad nauseum during the Osama drama, and now, here it is again over this. They are implanting the meme in the public mind that conspiracy theorists think EVERYTHING is a conspiracy, and so we can be trusted on nothing.

Im not sure what the end goal of that is, but I suspect it will be used in part to knock third party candidates out of the race in the 2012 Presidential election. Ron Paul and/or Jesse Ventura, and whomever else. I think that that is at least part of why the meme is being spread. To set the stage for ensuring that no one who is popular with the masses, but who is not a corporate pick can hope to win.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander

Originally posted by PaganArchangel

True..people have killed for less....I feel sorry for her either way, because if they did say they were going to pay her and in the end didn't (for whatever nebulous reason) what could she do about it..her life is still ruined..this is a lose/lose situation for her. She will find out what real American Justice is about as it applies to people like her.

I feel sorry for her either way too.

And, I DONT feel sorry for DSK either way. Whether he did it, or whether he is being set up, he sounds like a real jerk, and even though I care about justice, I sure dont care about his suffering.

Originally posted by PaganArchangel
BTW,CNN was saying that an hour after the guy got busted 'conspiracy theory' sites were saying that he may be getting set up...

I think we are being watched, lol

I think the "conspiracy theory" line the MSM has been mooing about in relation to several topics actually has another purpose. Ive been thinking about it.

The first time I heard it was when watching clips of Obama thrashing Trump with it over the birth certificate issue. And then they brought it up ad nauseum during the Osama drama, and now, here it is again over this. They are implanting the meme in the public mind that conspiracy theorists think EVERYTHING is a conspiracy, and so we can be trusted on nothing.

Im not sure what the end goal of that is, but I suspect it will be used in part to knock third party candidates out of the race in the 2012 Presidential election. Ron Paul and/or Jesse Ventura, and whomever else. I think that that is at least part of why the meme is being spread. To set the stage for ensuring that no one who is popular with the masses, but who is not a corporate pick can hope to win.

True, I thought about that as well.
But then..it could backfire on them (I'm always hoping their plans backfire, lol) and the part of the public (from wherever in the world ATS is accessible from) that have suspicions about things that are happening may join/lurk ATS and other comparable sites. I didn't use to believe in conspiracies myself until Watergate happened(but I was only 13 at the time). I learned since then that maybe everything isn't a conspiracy, but some things stink to high heaven.
I don't feel sorry for the guy either..what a dork.

I can't help but wonder now that he's in the pokey how many women are gonna come out of the woodwork to talk about thier (ahem) experiences with him (ok, now I'm just being nosy, lol)
Gadz...what a dork, lol

Originally posted by PaganArchangel

But then..it could backfire on them (I'm always hoping their plans backfire, lol) and the part of the public (from wherever in the world ATS is accessible from) that have suspicions about things that are happening may join/lurk ATS and other comparable sites

They have a pretty good lead time, though. If every little thing that happens gets the "conspiracy treatment" it will over time make people think that conspiracy theorists are just paranoid nuts. They already lean that way, but a few conspiracy things have made mainstreet go "hmmm" maybe thats NOT so crazy.

However if the MSM adds a "conspiracy theorists think x" spin to every single thing that comes down the pipe, it will swing the people leaning towards us away from us. Because they are going to judge "conspiracy theorists" by whether or not they agree with us. And no one is going to agree that every single thing is a conspiracy. You see?

Originally posted by Gab1159
I believe this is a huge move. I don't think it has something to do with him wanting to run for President of France. Not at all.

I believe what is at play here is of an economic nature. I've heard from a contact I have that he was arrested because he wanted (and actually was going to) re-denominate the Iraqi Dinar. This is huge people, I don't know if you can perceive the size of this news. This is a political arrest, a bad guy being legally arrested by the good ones.

Yes, this is possible, and someone for whom I have a great respect for is passing me this intel.

edit on 15-5-2011 by Gab1159 because: (no reason given)

This.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander

Originally posted by PaganArchangel

But then..it could backfire on them (I'm always hoping their plans backfire, lol) and the part of the public (from wherever in the world ATS is accessible from) that have suspicions about things that are happening may join/lurk ATS and other comparable sites

They have a pretty good lead time, though. If every little thing that happens gets the "conspiracy treatment" it will over time make people think that conspiracy theorists are just paranoid nuts. They already lean that way, but a few conspiracy things have made mainstreet go "hmmm" maybe thats NOT so crazy.

However if the MSM adds a "conspiracy theorists think x" spin to every single thing that comes down the pipe, it will swing the people leaning towards us away from us. Because they are going to judge "conspiracy theorists" by whether or not they agree with us. And no one is going to agree that every single thing is a conspiracy. You see?

Yes, I do...I imagine the only thing that is going to convince people (if even then they could be convinced) is a conspiracy theory that is found unequivocally to be true. I remember for a long time after Watergate there were a lot of people who didn't trust a thing the Govt. said.
There were a lot of things that happened in the US directly before that that seemed to little by little demoralize the citizenry and Watergate was the last straw for many.

Originally posted by PaganArchangel

Yes, I do...I imagine the only thing that is going to convince people (if even then they could be convinced) is a conspiracy theory that is found unequivocally to be true.

Which is why its such a great strategy to attach the word "conspiracy theory" to many, many things that will be proven UN true. Its proof, in reverse.


And Watergate was my first conspiracy too. I remember watching the news at around age 5 and just absorbing it all. But I also grew up in Hawaii, which had been an independent sovereign nation until it was overthrown by American and European businessmen with the aid of the US government, after which it became a US territory.

So, that helped a lot too. I grew up knowing how my government operated.

The latest news of DSK being held without bail sounded rather extreme.
The police must have some very solid evidence of a violent rape such as blood under his fingernails.

The more disputable indiscretion claimed to be rape but supported with only anecdotal evidence, usually gets handled much differently.

Prosecuting attorneys are usually careful not to let overzealous investigators spoil a case.

Still looking for some some transparent clues that might indicate this is just a MSM RPG.

His running against Nicholas Sarkozy seems to be the obvious motive in this allegation whether he committed it or not. I think we're living in a crazy enough age where this kind of thing is usual business for these IMF types but this is just one incident where they let the justice system actually work, possibly to take him out. If the NWO are infighting, that's a good thing for the people of the world. Use their own divide and conquer methods against them.

However, we don't want to be too hopeful as this may be a trap. Always ask questions.