Roswell a 'Soviet plot to create panic in U.S: (Time to Deny Ignorance Or...)

Devotees of science fiction have been convinced for decades that an alien spacecraft crashed in the desert of New Mexico – and that the American government covered up the recovery of extraterrestrial bodies.

The so-called Roswell Incident of 1947 spawned conspiracy theories by the score.

But now, sadly for UFO spotters, a new book offers an entirely man-made – and some would say even more bizarre – explanation, featuring two of the greatest villains of 20th century history: the Soviet dictator Josef Stalin and the infamous Nazi “Angel of Death” Dr Joseph Mengele. The incident went largely unreported until books and documentaries in the 1970s made allegations of alien life forms.

Area 51, the new book by Annie Jacobsen, is based on interviews with scientists and engineers who worked in Area 51, the top secret test base in the Nevada desert.

It dismisses the alien story and puts forward the theory that Stalin was inspired by Orson Wells’s famous radio adaptation of the HG Wells novel War of the Worlds, which provoked hysteria across America when broadcast in 1938. According to the book, the plot started after the Soviet Union seized from Germany at the end of the war the jet-propelled, single wing Horton Ho 229 – a fighter said to be the forerunner of the modern B2 stealth bomber.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/cf35fb70aafc.jpg[/atsimg]
Horten Ho 229 - Jorge

This is where Mengele enters the story. The Nazi doctor, who experimented on prisoners in Auschwitz and fled to South America after the war, was supposedly enlisted to create a crew of “grotesque, child-size aviators” in return for a eugenics laboratory.

The book says that the plane was filled with “alien-like” children, aged 12 or 13, who Stalin wanted to land in America and cause hysteria similar to the 1938 broadcast. But, the plane, remotely piloted by another aircraft, crashed and the Americans hushed up the incident. Jacobsen’s source, a retired engineer from the former defence company EG&G, which handled the US government’s most sensitive projects, said he was put on to the Roswell project in Area 51 in 1978.

Source: www.telegraph.co.uk...
Photos from Google searching:
Additonal info: en.wikipedia.org...

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/03d114023b54.jpg[/atsimg]
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c8d936bae320.jpg[/atsimg]
Unloading of captured Horten Ho 229 V3 in the USA

Man, people will do anything to sell a book.... was the first thing I thought when I saw this. And, I discounted in mentally and moved on to other things. Then I got to thinking..... Deny Ignorance. So, I put it on ATS for discussion and review.

Don't Kill The Messenger. I put it here JUST IN CASE some ATSer actually has some knowledge that would somewhat aide in this theory or totallly discount it, thus... the Deny Ignorance aspect comes into play. But why anon72?

Well, the more I thought about the bigger picture and all the people that we don't even know who come to ATS and read/learn etc. Well, in case anyone out there every googles this topic... hopefully they will see our link and come and learn... whatever they are to take away from the great presentations and post to topics such as this.

So, knaw on this one and let us know what you think. I will hold my thoughts as I am still looking into something I found interesting while do up this thread.

You might like this link as a thought kicker-er...:

That sounds absolutely disgusting that Dr Mangele would do such a thing! I wonder what made mankind really that unbelievably evil just to sabotage another nation.

Lol, it is the worst explanation i have ever read
-Mengele was never captured or worked for the Soviet Union
-Plans or models of Horten were never captured by the Soviets (only by the US)

interesting going to look in to this a bit more and get back to you


star and flag

2nd

nice find and I agree
...some would do anything to sell their damn books - I want to cast the first stone xD

Great story, seriously though thats all it is a great bit of sci fi. You could even make a film out of it, oh wait the history channel have bought the rights i hear you say

I always said that I found it peculiar that the Greys were... well, grey, like the Nazis... And since they built saucers, and one crashed in Roswell... I always thought there was a story similar to what you bring here today behind Roswell.

Then the US government would have planted the whole Alien scenario to cover for the Nazis, or Russian action. Who knows if the Nazis were beaten or not by the expedition in Antarctica...

Just trying to formulate a scenario where an operational 229 could even find itself crashing after being cramed with WW2 era RC electronics and a couple of kids. I think the tale is an offense to the 229 myself.

Can you even imagine russians in a remote section of mexico trying to get a german advanced prototype off the ground? I say mexico because the theoretical range of the 229 was not that great. It was a WW2 era jet after all.

reply to post by Bocimaster


Well perhaps. I don't know what the Russians/Soviets captured.

But, I did find this site: www.roswellufocrash.com...

There is a very good read in the one section about the Plane/designers/etc.

If one is truly interested in this topic, I suggest you check the site out....

In spite of everything, it is still more plausible a theory than the extraterrestrial hypothesis.

reply to post by anon72

This is not even close to a credible explanation for the Roswell incident. You would have to ignore most of the evidence to accept this.

See The Case For Roswell and more recently The Day Before Roswell.

Interesting nevertheless. Thanks for posting.

I'll let Mr. Horse sum up my feelings about this theory...



I suppose it is possible that the Soviets did get a hold of plans for a flying-wing and I suppose it's possible that they blackmailed Josef Mengele into producing alien-like beings for them. However, the biggest sticking point is how they managed to get both planes into the United States and as far as New Mexico without anyone being the wiser. Another hole, just as large, is that the source for this said he began work on the "Roswell Project" in 1978; would it have really taken 30 years to figure out the ship was known technology and the occupants humans?

This is an utterly preposterous idea. More so than actual extraterrestrials crashing.

Would the US government actually cover-up a Russian-made hoax? No. They would say the Russians were trying to pull a fast one and show the trickery. During the red scare era where the U.S. government was actively seeking to prosecute anybody they thought was a communist this information would have been widely disseminated as leverage against Russia in the U.S. that indeed they were spying and in very strange ways.

To believe the U.S. government would hide this from American citizens to protect the Russian government is more silly than to think they covered up actual extraterrestrial bodies and equipment.

This is the stupidest explanation for Roswell I have ever heard. Here is the most obvious problem with this transparent lie:

Roswell happened in 1947.
World War II ended in 1945.

The book claims the mutant children were "12 or 13." They would have to have been born in 1935, before World War II even started, before Mengele did any human experiments, before he had his PhdD, before the Soviets could possibly have captured him - not that they ever did.

Absolute garbage.

The best thing that ever resulted from Roswell, was the Canadian made AVRO ARROW fastest jet ever

well maybe not ever,, but imagine had CANADA the birthplace of AIRPOWER, not the U.S.A,, been allowed to continue from that point keeping all of the ENGINEERS who went to CANADA,, oh well those days are over,, get over it.

From the wiki entry on the plane involved.

During the final stages of the war, the U.S. military initiated Operation Paperclip, an effort by the various intelligence agencies to capture advanced German weapons research, and keep it out of the hands of advancing Soviet troops. A Horten glider and the Ho 229 V3, which was undergoing final assembly, were secured and sent to Northrop Corporation in the United States for evaluation. Northrop was chosen because of their experience with flying wings, inspired by the Horten brothers' pre-war record-setting glider. Jack Northrop had been building flying wings since the N-1M in 1939. [edit]

en.wikipedia.org...

So, apart from the Russians not having either of the brothers, no air-frame and probably not a clue as to the air-frames actual existence, good story.

reply to post by anon72


Thanks for posting this anon72, examination and discussion of all 'new' theories help bring a wider understanding for everyone.

I found nothing in the links convincing or likely. I would go with your first impression on this one.

Originally posted by NowanKenubi
I always said that I found it peculiar that the Greys were... well, grey, like the Nazis... And since they built saucers...

They did?... What's the evidence of this?

Just curious. Thanks

reply to post by anon72


anyone discounting this theory so quickly has a limited imagination.
and it is ironic to see people be so religious about their aliens theories...
when most believers scoff at the skeptics with the same brick-brained mentality.

Originally posted by TarzanBeta
reply to post by anon72

 

anyone discounting this theory so quickly has a limited imagination.
and it is ironic to see people be so religious about their aliens theories...
when most believers scoff at the skeptics with the same brick-brained mentality.

It's not about imagination it's actually about facts and that's where the whole idea falls flat on it's backside.

Fact.... the only surviving Horten Air frames were all taken to the USA and the Horton brothers never visited the USSR.

Fact.... It would be just a bit stupid, to say the least, to try and scare the Yanks with something they already had.. Something that wasn't even secret.

Fact.... Over a decade before the Yanks even thought of stealth, the Avro Vulcan bomber had been developed, built and entered into service with the RAF. Its' designer quite freely admits he took part of the air-frame's design from captured documents obtained from Germany post WW2.

Fact... The idea that the Russkis would spend an absolute fortune on developing a single air-frame that could travel 1000s of miles to the USA, avoid all RADAR detection and then purposely crash it to *scare them* has to rate as one of the most inane suggestions yet.