I am here to disprove a creator

How do you create ~"from"~

Heh, case closed.

*~*~*-*-*~*~*

Everything has an origin; but sometimes those origins are just steps on a ladder so we can get ~"there"~

Originally posted by You2Two2AreSpecial
How do you create ~"from"~

Heh, case closed.

*~*~*-*-*~*~*

Everything has an origin; but sometimes those origins are just steps on a ladder so we can get ~"there"~

Ever wonder why Jesus refers to his Father as being the creator. pft

reply to post by You2Two2AreSpecial
I agree you are not the creator and/or you do not understand the nature of creation.
I am not either and don't understand all i know about it either.

OP it's dumb to think that we as homo sapiens would ever be able to comprehend a being that created the entire universe.

It'd be like your goldfish trying to do your taxes

Originally posted by Hawking
OP it's dumb to think that we as homo sapiens would ever be able to comprehend a being that created the entire universe.

It'd be like your goldfish trying to do your taxes

thank you for that awesome comparison x)

The place of the beginning is also the place of the end. Can you grasp this? Perhaps one day.

Originally posted by AdamsMurmur
The place of the beginning is also the place of the end. Can you grasp this? Perhaps one day.

Undoubtedly, but what if those places are reserved. And/or they don't exist.

Do you understand what many before me were trying to represent with heaven and hell?

DOn't lie to your instincts.

Unless something can come from nothing there can be no real creation just change in state.

So the question should not be if there is a creator or creation we must first establish if it is possible for something to come from nothing.

Of course if things need creating and haven't always been we really need to ask where the creator came from?

reply to post by You2Two2AreSpecial


Like that other poster said, we can't possibly comprehend how God works.

I'll give you an example.

Imagine you yourself are a "god" and you take a piece of paper and draw two people in this 2D environment.. they come to life. They live their lives in this 2D world - this paper - but you want to describe to them your world.. How would you describe a 3D object, like a cube, to these 2D beings? It's nearly impossible for them to understand/comprehend what a Cube would look like, or anything in 3D, because of the limitations of their 2D world.

Now, suppose that God lives in 15 dimensions (any random number, just something greater than ours).. how would WE come to understand how he works, how he exists? We can't, because of the limitations of our world.

So, basically.. us Humans can't comprehend how God works, but the most simplest way we can put it is "he created everything" - but if you wanted the technical details, well, we won't know until we get to Heaven.

Doesn't that just prove that like cannot create like?
However, if a creator is far above our capabilities and knowledge (as all religions believe) then He/She is above the creation.
Isn't that how all creation and creativity functions?
A man marries a woman to create a family. He is then above the children he creates for many years.
A person creates a company and is the boss.
A person creates a garden, and decides how to prune it.
The person and the company or garden are not equal.
One led to the other.
The desire of the creative person led to the creation.

I suppose the problem arises when the creations develop a will of their own...
So for the creator to have or maintain power he must also be a potential destroyer.

Originally posted by Lionhearte
reply to post by You2Two2AreSpecial

 

Like that other poster said, we can't possibly comprehend how God works.

I'll give you an example.

Imagine you yourself are a "god" and you take a piece of paper and draw two people in this 2D environment.. they come to life. They live their lives in this 2D world - this paper - but you want to describe to them your world.. How would you describe a 3D object, like a cube, to these 2D beings? It's nearly impossible for them to understand/comprehend what a Cube would look like, or anything in 3D, because of the limitations of their 2D world.

Now, suppose that God lives in 15 dimensions (any random number, just something greater than ours).. how would WE come to understand how he works, how he exists? We can't, because of the limitations of our world.

So, basically.. us Humans can't comprehend how God works, but the most simplest way we can put it is "he created everything" - but if you wanted the technical details, well, we won't know until we get to Heaven.

edit on 14-5-2011 by Lionhearte because: (no reason given)

THank you for your kind words!

Perhaps there is no beginning applying human concepts of time to such a vast universe seems ludicrous.
What does 24 hour days and 365 day long trips around the sun have to do with the universe at large.
It's all relative.

reply to post by ELahrairah


You know, that's an interesting thing to note.

We obviously base time on our Sun and the Earth's rotation in our solar system.. but in an entirely different solar system, or even on a different planet, Time is different.

Another thing that's interesting, though, is that Time can be affected by Gravity, so when you say that it is relative.. It may be more true than one may think.

Originally posted by Jinglelord
Unless something can come from nothing there can be no real creation just change in state.

So the question should not be if there is a creator or creation we must first establish if it is possible for something to come from nothing.

Of course if things need creating and haven't always been we really need to ask where the creator came from?

My question is why the change in state, why not just keep the singularity/nothingness state.(Let's skip the nonsense about nothingness and needing/had to happen)

My original and ~semi-final~ thought on the matter is that inside the singularity(which did not actually exist/ exist for an amount time) duality happened/existed. Both infinity and 0 were realized and thus the big bang immediately happened, as all things had happened in the singularity: 0-infinity were made. This makes me think that after all possibilities happen inside the(our) universe all things will shut down into nothingness. Similar to how the singularity changed/was nothing.

This would mean that the beginning of all things was around the first big bang, unless only one singularity can happen at a time, and it is a breathing method of infinite proportions.

All things are collected into black holes and centered in the universe to make another big bang and a new possibility.

Originally posted by You2Two2AreSpecial
How do you create ~"from"~

Heh, case closed.

*~*~*-*-*~*~*

Everything has an origin; but sometimes those origins are just steps on a ladder so we can get ~"there"~

You're here to disprove a Creator? Good luck.

Here's one to add to your conundrums: There is no such thing as "nothing."

reply to post by Lionhearte

Exactly time is based on human perception of the 24 hour daily cycle 365 day solar revolution. If earth was in mars or Venus's place it would be different. A year would be longer or shorter and if the rotation of earth was faster or longer the day would be shorter.
Time is a man made concept that we as humans apply to nature. The universe was around a long time before we ever showed up.

If an object moves through space and no one is there with a stop watch to time it does it have any temporal meaning?
If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it does it make a sound?

Originally posted by The GUT

Originally posted by You2Two2AreSpecial
How do you create ~"from"~

Heh, case closed.

*~*~*-*-*~*~*

Everything has an origin; but sometimes those origins are just steps on a ladder so we can get ~"there"~

You're here to disprove a Creator? Good luck.

Here's one to add to your conundrums: There is no such thing as "nothing."

There obviously is. Just because you can't measure it does not mean it is not present.

Without energy, however, the environment would obviously not exist in it's current state(or would it)/would serve no purpose/would make it useless(etc etc etc, and yes you can go ahead and think about those things in terms of a creator being in replace of the environment)

Oh and let me just get this one off my chest: Just because you can't measure a creator doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Yeh, k.

@ELahrairah

Yup.

Can the creator make a rock that it can not lift.

reply to post by You2Two2AreSpecial


so.. if you are not ' from' a creator
then.. you are - creator ( a? the?)
thats it like - i am not ' from' me -
'cos i am (a? d?)me
in the free translaton

Originally posted by You2Two2AreSpecial

Originally posted by AdamsMurmur
The place of the beginning is also the place of the end. Can you grasp this? Perhaps one day.

Undoubtedly, but what if those places are reserved. And/or they don't exist.

Do you understand what many before me were trying to represent with heaven and hell?

DOn't lie to your instincts.

You came from heaven, you will also return to it. If a beginning doesn't exist, then how does an end exist? If an end exists, then surely it must have begun? They are one in the same.

Heaven is a place of rest and freedom, hell is a place of cleansing and reflection. Instinct? Which instinct are you referring to - where is it rooted? In the poor dirt (flesh), or the rich soil (spirit)? Don't listen to lies your instincts tell you if it is rooted in the wrong place.

You see, we can go back and forth like this forever. That is infinity.