God.

Greetings everyone. I wish to bring to you a fourm or kind of like a poll of Divinity. I am agnostic, I am not trying to offend anybody, I am only trying to influence you to think deeper and challenge your beliefs. Now, what do you say we get into this topic?

For as long as humans lived, we all have believed in something greater than us. A creator. We have worshipped our each individual God(s) (early civilizations were polytheistic) for centuries. Even Neanderthal's believed in a greater being! Well, now a days we still worship divinity. But now a days, Monotheism dominates polytheism. Many people that believe in one God all have a similar depiction of what God is. There are early Christian paintings depicting what God looks like. A somewhat Jesus like figure. In Islam, there are no pictures shown of prophets and Allah (in which I do highly respect this). We humans are mortals, and God is immortal. We live in different realms. Many religions did think God created the world. In MANY religions, people blieve God speaks to them. In some religions, they depict the teachings and knowledge of god as uncomprehensible because it is immortal knowledge. Much more can be covered in this, so I would like to ask you to use some background knowledge of you religion to awnser these questions. Here are SOME of my questions (and beliefs?) i'd like you to comment on.

-How do we know a God exists?
-How do we know what is God?
-How can we communicate with God is he is divine?
-How can we comprehend Divine knowledge?
-God doesn't show any emotions because emotions are mortal actions.
-Opinions are mortal actions.
-What can we learn from God that is comprehensible?
-Is God a being?
-Could God just be a mere powerful thought?
-What is the boundary between immortal and immortal?
-If God loves us all, why does he speak to so few?
-Where does God dwell?
-is God trying to warn us?

On a side note,,,
I do generally have a hard time throughly explaining what I state. but please share your beliefs.
-Cheers

Dog.

This is that word association game, right?

I totally agree with everything except for the stuff I am not sure of.
But a few key points I find myself in total disagreement with you.
So in summary

Yes, no, maybe, are you insane, am I insane

There all the answers to any mystery of the universe pick and chose an answer at will.

(o no you anin't agona thow me in dat byror pit i gots more gumshon dan dat)

reply to post by notsofunnyguy


That was not so funny

reply to post by Warpthal

How do we know a God exists?
Scientifically speaking, we cannot. It's called Faith for a reason, although that doesn't mean the proof of his works are not evident. The Bible has made several prophecies that have been fulfilled already, are being fulfilled, or have yet to come to pass. Man cannot see the future, so having a book, which was written by man, but inspired by God, shows us that there is indeed a God.

How do we know what is God?
We can't. Knowing what God is would imply we would know who he works, and right now, that is impossible.
Think of it this way: Pretend you yourself are a "god" so to speak, and you take a piece of paper and draw two figures on it, a man and a woman, and you "create" a world for them. Their world is in 2D - they can only interpret their world based on the limitations OF that world. How would you describe a 3D object such as a cube? It is extremely difficult for them to grasp the concepts and realities of OUR world because of THEIR limitations.

Now, imagine God is in 15 dimension (just any random number), how would we come to understand how HE works, with the limitations of OUR world?

How can we communicate with God is he is divine?
Simply through prayer. God is always listening, always watching. Talking with him is simple, just open your mouth with God on your mind. Moreso, open your heart with him on it as well.

How can we comprehend Divine knowledge?
We can't. See #2.

God doesn't show any emotions because emotions are mortal actions.
God has Love, God has jealous.. God has many emotions, which is where we inherited them from. His are obviously much more greater than ours. To love is not mortal, anyways.. I think it's divine.

Opinions are mortal actions.
That makes it sound like opinions are a bad thing..

What can we learn from God that is comprehensible?
We can learn from Jesus, and HIS actions on Earth as the Son of God. From God directly? It's kind of hard to do so, how can Man become -like- God? We can't.

Is God a being?
An eternal being, I suppose.

Could God just be a mere powerful thought?
I don't think so..

What is the boundary between immortal and immortal?
Do you mean Mortal and Immortal? Time is an interesting concept, but when dealing with these two, Immortality just means you live forever, until the Universe itself collapses.. Now, ETERNAL is different. Our souls are Eternity, and so we live forever even when this Universe ends.

If God loves us all, why does he speak to so few?
The real question is.. why do so few choose to listen? He speaks to us all..

Where does God dwell?
Heaven, I suppose.

is God trying to warn us?
I would imagine he is, if he wasn't, why would he go through all the trouble of making the Bible?

the answers you seek are inside and outside of you...

Hi, let me preface my comments with a note about why I'm saying what I am. I'm analytic by nature, so when I come across a series of points or questions like this, I pick it apart. Not to be mean but to "look under the hood" so to speak.

Originally posted by Warpthal
For as long as humans lived, we all have believed in something greater than us. A creator. We have worshipped our each individual God(s) (early civilizations were polytheistic) for centuries.

Though there were early polytheistic societies, it's my understanding that monotheism is much older than previously thought. We can only gauge such things by writings or drawings, but oral traditions certainly preceded them. And such oral traditions of course were not preserved, so we can only speculate. I'm of the opinion that there was an original truth or knowledge that was lost and fragmented as time went on. That would explain similarities among religions and philosophies, while differences would likely be due to the separation of populations and their individual oral traditions. We know from various artifacts and ancient architecture that people of ancient times were not dumb beasts at all, and some of their technologies still elude us today. Some attribute this to alien visitations, but that merely moves the line in the sand farther back in time instead of answering any questions.

There are early Christian paintings depicting what God looks like. A somewhat Jesus like figure. In Islam, there are no pictures shown of prophets and Allah (in which I do highly respect this).

The Bible never condones making images of God in the OT, but says nothing either way in the NT. Paintings of Jesus were thus neither good nor bad, but all fiction, since they came much later than when he actually lived on earth.

-How do we know a God exists? -How do we know what is God?
Personally, I begin with observing that the universe runs down and thus cannot be infinite or eternal. Since I hold that is is philosophically and scientifically impossible for anything to create itself. then the observable universe must be the result of a First Cause. And since no effect is greater than its cause, the First Cause must be vast, powerful, intelligent, personal, loving, hating, just, merciful, etc. In other words, I exist, therefore there is a God.

-How can we communicate with God is he is divine? -How can we comprehend Divine knowledge?
Based upon the previous answer, if we have language then so does God; if we understand logic then so does God. I believe God initially spoke to people directly as we do to each other today. But people rebelled and separated themselves from God, making communication with him more distant and less clear. However, God still spoke to a few faithful people, and eventually their words were recorded in writing.

-God doesn't show any emotions because emotions are mortal actions. -Opinions are mortal actions.
God surely has emotions: love, anger, grief, joy, etc. If, as the Bible says, we are made in God's image, then we are not merely physical beings but also spiritual, and thus share some of the attributes of God. This is not to say we are divine or on a par with God, but that we are his specially-designed creation.

-What can we learn from God that is comprehensible? -Is God a being?
I get my knowledge of God from the Bible, which is literature and understood as we would any other literature. It tells us God is certainly a personal being, and per my earlier answers much more than a mere force.

-What is the boundary between immortal and immortal?
You mean between mortal and immortal? If so, the mortal can die and the immortal cannot die. I believe our spirits are immortal.

-If God loves us all, why does he speak to so few?
He speaks to those who are willing to listen. Many approach God with arrogance and demands and judgment, but God's ear is tuned to the humble.

-Where does God dwell?
In another dimension I guess you could call it; the Bible calls it "heaven" or "sky", and it's my understanding that in the ANE view there were 3 of these: the atmosphere, space, and the abode of God, thus the term "third heaven". But for Christians, we are told that when we are saved the Holy Spirit of God indwells us as well. Again, this does not make us gods but marks us as God's children, for our eventual inheritance in his eternal kingdom.

-is God trying to warn us?
Absolutely. Jesus told parables to explain, such as the "vineyard". He likened the world to a vineyard and people as the tenants. The owner goes away on a long journey, and decides to send a servant to check up on things. But the ones in charge beat the servant. So the owner sent another, then another, and finally his very own son. But the tenants decided that if they killed him they'd be the heirs of the vineyard. Of course they were wrong, and the owner would come and destroy them all for what they did. God has sent prophets and finally his own Son, Jesus, whom the religious leaders had executed. But Jesus, being God in the flesh, rose again and went back to heaven "to prepare a place" for any who would follow him. Soon he will return for his children, and then the wrath of God will pour out on the world that killed his Son. This is very oversimplified of course.

Hope that's a start. ;-)

reply to post by Lionhearte


- Science can only explain mortal happenings
-Great observation, tough to bout against
- How do we know if God communicates?
- God tries to intrepret things through the use of emotions, which we humans know so dearly
- You dispute (or however you want to call it) with opinion
- Eternal thought, belief? How do we know if its a being if its from a crazy dimension?
-Yes thats what I meant (I ignored my error) mortal vs immortal. Not in a timely manor, but in a eternal more spiritual manor.
- Unarguable
- If God is eternal, could God be a galaxy?
- Jesus preached what God was saying in the New testament. Old Testament was written by mortal's word.

reply to post by SaberTruth


Wow I never knew many people would like to share their opinion, well there is many statments I'd rebuttle against that, but here are some mere thoughts I'd like for you to dwell upon.
-If he created the universe as it is, he created dimensions. he would have to be a higher dimension to create a dimension. In the dimension where he created us, EVERYTHING is different. Who knows if there is such thing as language, fluidity of thought, abstract knowledge etc. Maybe heaven IS the Milky way. Maybe we dwell with him? So many questions I'd like to state with your cause.

Originally posted by Warpthal
-If he created the universe as it is, he created dimensions. he would have to be a higher dimension to create a dimension. In the dimension where he created us, EVERYTHING is different. Who knows if there is such thing as language, fluidity of thought, abstract knowledge etc. Maybe heaven IS the Milky way. Maybe we dwell with him? So many questions I'd like to state with your cause.

We can only speculate about other dimensions, but I'd have to say that the Milky Way is in ours since we can see it.

reply to post by SaberTruth


True, nice thinking

reply to post by Warpthal


Greetings. I'm the opposite of you, a gnostic, so let me answer these however I can.

-How do we know a God exists?
This is a personal quest that one must undergo. If you question his existence, do some research and look within yourself because the answers are there. If you strongly believe you will know, then you will know. A blind person cannot see whether or not he is in the darkness or in the light. Your first task is to learn to see not simply with your body and mind, but with your spirit - the seed of the divine that is within you and requires nurturing.

-How do we know what is God?
God is ineffable, simply. This is why he is known by many different names and faces. We as humans cannot fully describe who or what he is, other than that he is simply, is.

-How can we communicate with God is he is divine?
Prayer is talking to God, meditation is listening to God. When you pray, prayer for others, when you listen, listen for yourself and those around you. The thing to remember is "others, Lord, others."

-How can we comprehend Divine knowledge?
One who fully comprehends divine knowledge is someone who is fully enlightened (or as some say, reached the Christ consciousness). This is a journey and will take time. Even those in the presence of great prophets were doubtful, imagine us who only have texts as a basis for their wisdom? That's why it's important to be faithful and look within.

-God doesn't show any emotions because emotions are mortal actions.
God is love, clearly an emotion by our words. We are taught to love others as he loves us, which is unconditionally. Protect your neighbour, protect even your enemy. Love them all -- this is the basic premise of many religions. If God did not love, we would not have a soul, nor would we have had messengers from him, nor would we have any knowledge of things like rebirth, afterlife, philosophy, science, and so on. We would simply be animals. There is a fountain of more far beyond imperfectness that is the "beast."

-Opinions are mortal actions.
Opinion is rooted in guessing, yes it's mortal.

-What can we learn from God that is comprehensible?
Love and spirituality.

-Is God a being?
The very word calls upon something that is consciously alive. In that essence, yes, he's a being. Jesus called him Father, for example, which is a very personal way to refer to him and is relatable to us.

-Could God just be a mere powerful thought?
That's only part of it. You're forgetting the body and the spirit. The body is not visible to us nor is the spirit at least with these eyes. The "light" is the only way we can translate the body and spirit into an image.

-What is the boundary between immortal and immortal?
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Living in the spirit is immortality, because the spirit is immortal. Living in the flesh is mortality and enslavement.

-If God loves us all, why does he speak to so few?
Only a few are willing to listen. When he's ready to speak to you, you are paying attention to something else.

They said to him, "Tell us who you are so that we may believe in you."
He said to them, "You read the face of the sky and of the earth, but you have not recognized the one who is before you, and you do not know how to read this moment."

The words are there, you just need to read them.

-Where does God dwell?
The highest heaven. There are varying degrees of heaven and "hell." Hell is not as people think it is. Yes it can seem very punishing, but it's a temporary place necessary to strip you clean. Call upon God and you'll be saved, because you already are, but your free will must ask for it.

-is God trying to warn us?
The great prophets of our time (such as Christ, Buddha, lamas, etc.) are all telling and warning us to love one another and not be attached to this world. Attachment to the material world will make your ascension difficult and you will be reborn again in the physical plane because it is a form of prison, but the door is not locked, you simply need to walk out the door and embrace the truth of knowledge. This is difficult to do for many, although it seems easy. We are taught every day to live in this world, to be slaves, to be ignorant, but the way out is right there in front of you... in fact, it's within you.


Cheers.

The easiest way for me to know God exists is when I see He answers my prayers. Not for obtaining a petty thing like the lotto numbers.

But ease of pains for others, an answer to a particular question.

Or when people come out of the blue, tell you something precise you need to hear at that moment, and after, others you don't know come to tell you they think you were visited by an angel...

Yes, it seems loony. But if one could, under "scientific" control develop his Faith, he would soon observe that certain coincidences are more than that as they add up.

You know God exists because you allow Him to be a part of your life. He loves you enough to let you go by yourself. He needs to be invited.
It is not becoming a mindless drone. That is the business of organized religions. Faith is an inside experience and has nothing to do with organized religion.

To know if God exists is the most important question. You need to work on that one before any other.

reply to post by AdamsMurmur


I do agree with your statements. I do notice that you do take most of your beliefs from Buddhism, (which I do too). I could write very much, but here are some of my thoughts (I am just trying to challenge peoples thoughts thats why i am changing what I state) , How do we know God is so far away? If it is an eternal divinity, it lives amoungst us in different ways. It dwells with us, along side us, us along side it. We live in a constant fluid world, who knows what type of world it lives in? How do we know God isn't a mere thought?
How do we know the spirit is everlasting? Wouldn't that mean we are a divinity if our spirit is contained withtin us?

-How do we know a God exists?

Because there is existence. "God" is not some mythical creature, but the entire background and makeup of our universe and all others

-How do we know what is God?

We don't, and can't. The unnameable is the eternally real

-How can we communicate with God is he is divine?

With your heart and mind ... even your thoughts are known to the universe

-How can we comprehend Divine knowledge?

damn I wish I knew

-God doesn't show any emotions because emotions are mortal actions.

"God" as you call it doesn't see things as we do .. the universe is all about balance. For balance to exist there must be both good and evil

-Opinions are mortal actions.

You must find your own path ... no one can choose for you.

-What can we learn from God that is comprehensible?

Just be

-Is God a being?

THE being

-Could God just be a mere powerful thought?

Something like that ... more like THE thought

-What is the boundary between immortal and immortal?

Huh? ... Boundaries do not exist they are imaginary, a mental fabrication

-If God loves us all, why does he speak to so few?

Because few will listen and fewer still can even recognize the things that are spoken directly and clearly to them.

-Where does God dwell?

There is no place that could possibly contain (well, not contain) "God", save that ALL places ARE a DIRECT emanation FROM "God"

-is God trying to warn us?

"God" does not see the need to do such things, why would you warn someone of something YOU were doing to THEM? No, "God" simply watches the wonder of "God's" emanation

reply to post by berilium


Many good statements, one little, but powerful question. How do we know its God that's communicating through us? Without communication, we would probably not have abstract thoughts and belifs about religion like this. Could our spiritual side be speaking be speaking through us?

reply to post by Warpthal


now your thoughts are moving in the right direction ...

why do you think you have them in the first place? what makes you YOU is not inside your body anywhere

Originally posted by Warpthal
reply to post by AdamsMurmur

 

I do agree with your statements. I do notice that you do take most of your beliefs from Buddhism, (which I do too). I could write very much, but here are some of my thoughts (I am just trying to challenge peoples thoughts thats why i am changing what I state) , How do we know God is so far away? If it is an eternal divinity, it lives amoungst us in different ways. It dwells with us, along side us, us along side it. We live in a constant fluid world, who knows what type of world it lives in? How do we know God isn't a mere thought?
How do we know the spirit is everlasting? Wouldn't that mean we are a divinity if our spirit is contained withtin us?

edit on 13-5-2011 by Warpthal because: Forgot to fully point out my view

I'll answer some of that with these Logos (words):

God is not far away, he is all around us. In a sense, he lives through us as well because a part of him is within us, the spirit.

Jesus said, "It is I who am the light which is above them all. It is I who am the all. From me did the all come forth, and unto me did the all extend. Split a piece of wood, and I am there. Lift up the stone, and you will find me there."

His disciples said to him, "When will the repose of the dead come about, and when will the new world come?"
He said to them, "What you look forward to has already come, but you do not recognize it."

But he is not visible to us, or rather, his light hides his image.

Jesus said, "The images are manifest to man, but the light in them remains concealed in the image of the light of the father. He will become manifest, but his image will remain concealed by his light."

The image can be considered his body (although not in a physical sense), the light his spirit, and everything else, his thoughts, but it's all one thing unified perfectly, we just view it as three. The reason our spirit is immortal is because it comes from that which is the beginning and the end, infinite. Time is an illusion, for example, and all things imperfect live and die (and repeat the cycle), but that which is perfect never tastes death. As for time, things have happened and will happen, and the only thing that can change our reality is our grace, knowledge, and free will. If we mindlessly follow, or live as an animal does (be born, eat, sleep, die), we are not changing anything and just blindly following the fleshly desires and habits that imprison us here.

Indeed, we are divine beings trapped inside a body to suffer, learn, experience, and attain wisdom. The divinity in us is dormant until awakened. Seek and you shall find. Our life here is basically school, and we'll keep attending classes until we're ready to "graduate" and remain in the kingdom.

We're all learning together and I thank you for posing questions and making me and others think. It's truly helpful to stir the pot once in a while.

And yeah, Buddhism is the closest thing to what Jesus truly taught (what we call "gnosticism" today, or even Christian mysticism), but it was oppressed by the Church in its infancy and deemed heretical... I myself am looking forward to studying up on some Buddhism, such as our "chakras", and especially how they meditate and what not because it's truly wonderful. If all "religions" and people came together in love, we'd have a clear path to the divine, but thanks to man's greed, laws, pride, and so on (this is the "devil" in essence), we have borders, misinterpretations, and ignorance.

Cheers.

I'll try and have a go. I believe in the God of the OT and Jesus is the Messiah. My answers will be based on my understanding of the word, based on what the Holy Spirit has revealed to me, personal experience and the personal testimony of thousands, who have had NDE's.

-How do we know a God exists?
Because throughout the ages he has continually revealed himself. For instance, if he somehow chose you to reveal something to, once you would get past the shock and awe of the enormity of the situation, you would hunger and thirst for more and look at all the stories again (in the Bible) with a refreshed set of eyes.

-How do we know what is God?
We need to have a working relationship with him. We need to know him to understand what is God. Knowing in the strongest sense is love. God is love.

-How can we communicate with God is he is divine?
In the OT, God chose one prophet at a time to reveal himself, but that all changed when John the Baptist and Jesus came on the scene. John's baptism is by submerging into water - the willingness to put off the old self and have an eagerness to want to know the truth. The baptism that Jesus gives is of the Holy Spirit and that is how one can connect and communicate with that, which is divine.

-How can we comprehend Divine knowledge?
Again it's through the baptism of the Holy Spirit. One function of it is to teach and to guide us into all truths. You know, the baptism of the Holy Spirit is one of pure love. It is a love that not even a man and woman can replicate. Physical love of a man and woman is derived from that which is below. Physical love of man or woman and God is derived from that which is above. As above, so below. Love between a man and woman produces a child. With the Father, the love produces his Son inside us - the Son of God is the Son of Man.

-God doesn't show any emotions because emotions are mortal actions.
This statement just isn't correct. Everthing about God is emotion based and love is the strongest of all emotions. What comes to mind is the old Fleetwood Mac song, 'Rhiannon,' right at the very when the song is trailing off, Stevie is singing, 'dreams unwind...loves a state of mind.'

-Opinions are mortal actions.
Having an opinion on any matter is a form of judging.... and Jesus says that God judges no one but has entrusted all judging to the Son.

-What can we learn from God that is comprehensible?
That he is love and wants to know us. He wants to demonstrate his power in our lives in unique and peculiar ways.

-Is God a being?
His personal name is Yahveh and it literally means 'I am being' or 'I am the being.'


-Could God just be a mere powerful thought?
God is more than a mere powerful thought. God is the all.

-What is the boundary between immortal and immortal?
To be mortal is to exist in the physical, where to exist as an immortal is spiritual. Just like Jesus said, the flesh counts for nothing - spirit is everything.

-If God loves us all, why does he speak to so few?
Listen the playing field is even. The knowledge of finding a unique special place in his heart is and has been available. What he required yesterday is what he requires today. Repent. It's the one thing that will blow open that spiritual door, where his attention is directed soley at you. The perks of doing it far outweigh not doing it. One has everything to gain by repenting.

-Where does God dwell?
Inside and outside of me.

-is God trying to warn us?
He's always trying to warn us. The world is a scary place anymore. It's hard not to see warnings. The same with our private lives. He's there every minute with me. Sometimes perceivable, sometimes not so perceivable. He likes to warn us and show us things before they come to fruition. That way when the do come to pass we know he's the real deal.

reply to post by Warpthal


God is aliveness itself.
God is being.
Being is what this is.
This existance is god.
This eternal now is it.
What is happening is god.

Can you see and hear, do you experience sensation?

Jesus said, "It is I who am the light which is above them all. It is I who am the all. From me did the all come forth, and unto me did the all extend. Split a piece of wood, and I am there. Lift up the stone, and you will find me there."
Where it says 'I' in this statement read it as 'I' as in your own self.

Without you 'being', there would be no things seen.
No things (objects) exist with out you, you are the light that allows all things to be.
Whatever is under the stone can not be known unless you are present, until it is seen.
The seen and the seeing is one.

It is the Presence that allows everything to appear.
Be present, consciously, with this eternal now and you will feel god.
Know god.
He never has left you because he is always right here, right now.
We leave him when we play in the shadows of yesterday and tomorrow.
He can't live then or there.
He lives now.
Walk with him now and always.
Now is always the time, just notice it.

Remember as often as you can.
Say 'I am here I am now'.
Just notice you are.
You are the 'I am'.
You are the 'now'.
You are the 'hereness'.
This is home, this is heaven.