When did you start/stop believing in chemtrails

Originally posted by longwinter
reply to post by Uncinus

 

The trying to put words in my mouth thing will not work in this case, (no insult intended btw)

so i'll just say this...

I have been looking to the sky's all my life, and i never saw what i saw that day, and i have seen plenty of contrails, but that does not mean too much as in, i might not have been outside to look up to see them if they were there on other days, but i have given you links to where other people in Ireland have seen them on other occasions, does this answer your query?

Yes, it does, and let me explain the point of my question.

If you have been looking at the sky all your life, and you never saw them before that day, then it seems pretty safe to say that month was the month that they started. Otherwise you would have seen them before.

The problem here is that people give many different date for when they first started seeing them. It does not seem to add up that one person in an area could have been seeing them for ten years, yet another only just saw them for the first time a few months ago. If the second person somehow missed seeing them for ten years, then maybe the first person missed seeing them for ten years before that.

This is neatly illustrated in Michael J. Murphy's short follow-up to "What in the World are they Spraying". He visits Suzie, an organic farmer in Maui, someone who works outside every day, and probably looks at the sky a lot, as weather is important to farmers.

But she was unfamiliar with "chemtrails". MJM explains them to her, and (apparently, though they don't show it) points out a wispy persistent trail which she does not connect with planes. But later that same day she sees her first chemtrail, and watches it transform into the wispy cloud she saw earlier. (See from about 3:40 in this vid)

So if you've not noticed them for all those years, could it not be the the people who first noticed them also had failed to notice them for decades?

reply to post by Signals


It TOOK ME SOME TIME to find, this, Signals (especially for you...):

--- But, all can profit from it, except the "chem"-trail charlatans and hoaxers...they have had their *15 minutes* ---

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul

"I can give some insight into what would be required if fuel was being tampered with.

Pretty much everything that goes into an aircraft has to meet a standard. The standards are defined in various places, but aircraft, systems and engines are designed to perform as stated only when using the appropriate materials.

So if you tampered with the fuel you would have to either ensure that the fuel performed EXACTLY the same as untampered fuel (in terms of power generated, weight, cost, engine temperatures, pump and filter and other component reliability), or you would have to redesign all those components to perform with the tampered fuel, or you would have to persuade the equipment manufacturers to redesign all their performance criteria so that the tampered fuel performed as their various documents say it does.

If there was any difference in performance then you would aahve to ensure that the aircraft got the tampered fuel wherever it flew around the country/world - because if pilots had to use different performance charts for takeoffs they'd want to know why - and you'd have to account for the effect of having various partial mixtures of tampered & untampered fuel - not just all of one or all of the other!

Now all this would have to happen in an environment where aircraft contracts are worth hundreds of millions and maintenance and fuel cost over the lifetime of an airliner can cost as much as the orignal purchase cost so differences of less than 1% can make or break a deal.

(for those not in the aircraft industry, the 3 main costs of airlines are fuel, maintenance, and the capital cost of the aircraft. Crew costs are not insignificant - but they are much less than those 3, despite what you may have heard about how much pilots get paid and how many crews have to be employed to fly an aircraft)

so - back to the problem of tampering with the fuel....

And then you have the problem of how to keep the tampered fuel seperate - unless you tamper all the fuel all the time everywhere in the world - because international airlines buy fuel pretty much at every port they land at.

I guess it might be possible to alter the fuel so that there was no change in performance - but then you also have to ensure that it will not be detected if someone chooses to check a sample against the standard - or to do any of those other things that would be necessary to keep the tampering secret.

So there's an awful lot to be done to tamper with the fuel in secret.

could it be done? Maybe it could - certainly some chemmies believe it can and is being done.

But they don't actually have any evidence- no fuel smaples that contain strange stuff, no design documents leaked from fuel pump manufacturers, wikileaks hasn't announced any cables from Mobil & BP detailing how they keep tampered fuel segregated.

there are no strange fueling trucks at airports that I know of, no secret fuel farms. Local airport fuel company employees when I worked on "the ramp" had no special procedures for different aircraft nor was their fuel segregated, nor did aircraft weight and balance calculations involve selecting different specific gravities of fuel, nor did performance charts have seldom-used sections or lines for strange unspecified circumstances....

And chemmies never seem to actually want to talk about realities of aviatoin like these!!

I don't wonder why!!

Any Questions??

reply to post by Uncinus


Uncinus your op is a little confusing in wether you believe in Chemtrails or not, so do you believe they exist or not?
I've just paused it will watch after typing this, you see the difference here in Ireland is that we get crappy weather A LOT! Clouds are no stranger to us!
So they might be doing it and we may not see them at it, depends on the weather in your region in Ireland you see?

reply to post by Uncinus


So, that nutcase (or charlatan and snake oil salesman, who knows EXACTLY what he is doing, and is just a greedy, evil .....you know....) Michael J. Murphy has poisoned the mind of yet another gullible individual??

IN Hawai'i, of all places ?!? (In the tropical latitudes, contrails are much less common)....

How so very, very sad. That poor woman may require an intervention....

....points out a wispy persistent trail which she does not connect with planes. But later that same day she sees her first chemtrail, and watches it transform into the wispy cloud she saw earlier.

on Michael J. Murphy, and his shenanigans!

It's one thing to try to make money in a capitalistic society, but scam artists and con men are the lowest scum on Earth!

Originally posted by longwinter
reply to post by Uncinus

 

Uncinus your op is a little confusing in wether you believe in Chemtrails or not, so do you believe they exist or not?

I've not seen any evidence that they exist. So I've got no reason to believe in them. Of course it's possible there's a secret spraying program for which there is no evidence. But why would I believe in something without any evidence?

The point of my OP was partly to see if people started seeing them at the same time. That would be evidence of something - perhaps a change in jet engines, or fuel, or the weather. Or even evidence of chemtrails.

Wildly different account from the same place, however, would seem to be evidence against chemtrails.

Originally posted by weedwhacker

on Michael J. Murphy, and his shenanigans!

It's one thing to try to make money in a capitalistic society, but scam artists and con men are the lowest scum on Earth!

Someone asked earlier what the harm is in the chemtrail theory. I think this is a good example. Michael J. Murphy getting these farmers up in arms about chemtrails to the extent they are lobbying the local council to pass a resolution banning them.

Basically they are wasting their time, energy, and money, on something that has zero evidence to support it. They should be spending that time and money on real issues, like Monsanto's seed monopoly, and local Maui issues of soil depletion, and loss of tree cover.

reply to post by Uncinus


From my research and experience of viewing a contrail beside a chemtrail in real life, you should believe they are real, or maybe just maybe your working beside weedwhacker there to dis-info..just saying yano???

Originally posted by longwinter
reply to post by Uncinus

 

From my research and experience of viewing a contrail beside a chemtrail in real life, you should believe they are real, or maybe just maybe your working beside weedwhacker there to dis-info..just saying yano???

Neither Uncinus or weedwhacker support your faith based conclusion, so they must be disinfo, right?

Originally posted by longwinter
reply to post by Uncinus

 

From my research and experience of viewing a contrail beside a chemtrail in real life, you should believe they are real, or maybe just maybe your working beside weedwhacker there to dis-info..just saying yano???

I think I should believe you saw a short contrail next to a long contrail, probably from planes at slightly different altitudes. Explain why I should believe anything else.

reply to post by longwinter


By utilizing your logic, every cloud in the sky is a "chem"-trail, then??

Is this your stance, now?

Because, clouds can "persist"...for many hours. Therefore, they are *suspect*...and *must* be "chem"-trails....

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by longwinter

 

By utilizing your logic, every cloud in the sky is a "chem"-trail, then??

Is this your stance, now?

Because, clouds can "persist"...for many hours. Therefore, they are *suspect*...and *must* be "chem"-trails....

You are incorrect, i do not believe this, but i know when chemtrailing is going on.

Originally posted by adeclerk

Originally posted by longwinter
reply to post by Uncinus

 

From my research and experience of viewing a contrail beside a chemtrail in real life, you should believe they are real, or maybe just maybe your working beside weedwhacker there to dis-info..just saying yano???

Neither Uncinus or weedwhacker support your faith based conclusion, so they must be disinfo, right?

You are correct! How many are in your office there?

Originally posted by longwinter

Originally posted by adeclerk

Originally posted by longwinter
reply to post by Uncinus

 

From my research and experience of viewing a contrail beside a chemtrail in real life, you should believe they are real, or maybe just maybe your working beside weedwhacker there to dis-info..just saying yano???

Neither Uncinus or weedwhacker support your faith based conclusion, so they must be disinfo, right?

You are correct! How many are in your office there?

I would love to get paid to debunk, but alas I am merely an unemployed student with too much time on his hands.

reply to post by longwinter


Ahhh...the ultimate "comeback", when a "chem"-trail believer runs out of logic and reason...

The insult, and appeal to the paranoia that ultimately drives them....

Originally posted by adeclerk

Originally posted by longwinter

Originally posted by adeclerk

Originally posted by longwinter
reply to post by Uncinus

 

From my research and experience of viewing a contrail beside a chemtrail in real life, you should believe they are real, or maybe just maybe your working beside weedwhacker there to dis-info..just saying yano???

Neither Uncinus or weedwhacker support your faith based conclusion, so they must be disinfo, right?

You are correct! How many are in your office there?

I would love to get paid to debunk, but alas I am merely an unemployed student with too much time on his hands.

Not trying to be dismissive of your experience of length of life or jobs compared to mine so i stand by what i say and proof i offer to your lack of said things.. (i do not know your age, but i will assume your young)

reply to post by longwinter


Cannot believe that got a *star*??

....but i know when chemtrailing is going on.

People ask only one thing...HOW??

What makes a fluffy, persistent contrail any different from a cirrus cloud, that looks about the same? They are the same color, the same consistency, and made of the same materials.....

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by longwinter

 

Cannot believe that got a *star*??

....but i know when chemtrailing is going on.

People ask only one thing...HOW??

What makes a fluffy, persistent contrail any different from a cirrus cloud, that looks about the same? They are the same color, the same consistency, and made of the same materials.....

rofl i'll give you this 'Your Hilarious' and OMG i got a star 'Go Me' FFS

Psychology 101 bla bla bla

C ya round bully i mean buddy!

Oh btw op, why put so much emphasise on these types of threads if you don't believe them to be as they are, dis-info maybe???

Can someone else take over, time for a few beers, the Queen is still alive, God save the rest of us!

No worries

Even my spell checker doesn't believe that Chemtrails are different from contrails..

No kidding

reply to post by longwinter


Do tell... I would love to know what you know
so that I know and in turn the good ats'rs will know.

So tell me 'Babylon , how can you tell?

Originally posted by weedwhacker
Never any doubt that it was bogus

It is interesting you never even considered the possibility it might be true...