Take a leaf from Northern Ireland

With over 30 years of conflict between each side and the oppression of a side (yes im a protestant and I agree that the catholics where oppressed) we have evolved into a mini utopia where we are free from the government.

This all came about because of the catholics and I take my hat off to them.

The "civil war" in N.Ireland came about because the British protestants oppressed the rights of catholics and to a certain extent made a two tier community, where protestants thrived with the pick of jobs and other civil libertys and the catholics had to take a step back.

The "civil war" kicked off and the struggle was on for the catholics to gain more power in the country and eventually be united with what they belived to be home Ireland.

I will not go into the war in detail as this is counter productive and in the past. The catholics have achieved a muct better future for us as a whole and again i cannot praise them enought.

So we in this country have achieved what i would like to think of a mini utopia.

During the "Civil war" certian groups where made to fight each other and the governemnt forces.

Catholic forces
IRA

Protestant
UDA

Government
RUC
UDR




With these forces came rules and what i like to think of as a general understanding with every citizen in Northern Ireland, not only that but the bases of how we our counrty is today.

The police no longer come into housing estates, they are still afraid in some cases and in other are simply not wanted.

So this led to the IRA/UDA patrolling their areas at night to look for catholics/protestants/government agents and generally playing soilder in their front garden.

With this going on people where told not to ring the police as the would look like a tout (number 4) and with the police no longer patrolling your area, the IRA/UDA would simply kick you out of the estate and you would be told not to come back. The police couldent do anything because they couldent protect you in your own house so the onus came to the UDA/IRA to look after the rights of people in the estate.

The UDA/IRA became police forces in them selves but where diffrent to the police because they volunteered to patrol their estate and to look after their estate. This was a time where there was alot of fighting and people believed in the IRA/UDA to protect them and their family from the opposing side gaining alot of trust and respect in estates, they where people you dident mess with and their words could cast a great shaddow over you or your family.

Quite simply they dident mess around, they dident stand for anti social behaviour, they dident stand for crimes against the people in their estates and they dident stand for oppression in any form. With this bought alot problems for government forces in any form, even to day they still linger on after the war was fought.

*The local govermernt cannot enforce alot of laws because they would start riots.

*This country has been brought up to start riots when they feel oppressed

*This country has been brought up not to trust the police

*This country has been brought up in the value that you can do what you want and give the finger to the authorities or that its OK to run at the sign of police.

*This is a country that would not see its self oppressed by anyone or anything and would rather die than to live in an oppresssed state.

*This counrty has the NHS, benefits for the sick and social housing for the poor.

*This counrty has a government that represents its people and even their words can spark outrage and riots we live in a counrty thats leaders are held to account for everything and the best of it is they HAVE to work for the people because our country is so small, word of mouth can sink a leader.

Because all these factors have trickled down over time and into future generations we have adopted the old laws of the land but with no more riots between sides or the the police. We still however live in a country where the IRA/UDA still carry wight and the police still stay out of estates because no one is a tout.

We still would knock out a traffic warden and think nothing of it because he's being a di*k and working for the man. The banks cant touch us here because we do not have bailifs as we are to violent to them as they are working for the "man".

This in short is why I tip my hats to the Catholic/Republican people for starting a war to stop being oppressed which has in turn freed us all from governments and their croonies.

Michael McClenaghan and you couldent get more protestant than me or my family.

reply to post by michaelmcclen


Hello from Wexford brother! S+F. We're free as birds in Ireland. Hardly any oppression... But for drastic taxes of course. I don't know what it is about the isle but things are just so slow paced and easy going. Sadly there is still allot of underlying bigotry but it's now seeping into football and this whole Celtic Rangers debacle has become a vehicle which is ridiculous but such as life. I just hope no one ruins things for everyone.

You paint a nice picture of living in fantasy-land.

What you fail to mention is that the UDA-/IRA-controlled estates are controlled by criminal gangs, not out of the goodness of their hearts, but because they want to control and dominate large sections of Northern Irish inner-cities.

Police and bailiffs may not unduly venture into some of these estates ( although I doubt that's accurate ). However, that's not because the inhabitants are bolshy and anti-authority - but because they are forced to live under the UDA/IRA criminal gangs who control their area.

The republican and loyalist gangs who control these estates aren't exactly Robin Hood characters.

Their modus operandi is drug running/dealing, prostitution and people trafficking, protection rackets and general psychopathic behaviour. eg. beating a 16-year-old boy with nailed bats because he was ''cheeky'' to the paramilitary command.

well I suppose it comes down too who do you trust to get justice on your behalf.
How many times have we seen a criminal who prays on the vulnerable
get off with a slap on the wrist.
If the police can't or won't enforce the law and protect the public then it's only fair
the public should be able to defend themselves even if that means setting up vigilante groups.

As for myself I have never and would never go to the authorities for anything and have always sought my own justice
when me or my family have been wronged.
I have realised long ago that the police and they're paymasters don't give a flying f@&$K about any of us so I've decided to take the same attitude towards them.

So yes I agree we should take a leaf from Northern Ireland and raise a single digit salute to the Establishment and look after ourselves.

reply to post by Roguesheep


I think that you're missing the point, in terms of the OP's fantasy about how great it is for the unfortunate people who live on terrorist-controlled council estates.

Yes, they may dish out more ''suitable'' punishment to those who are accused of aberrant behaviour in their communities. But, there are a couple of important points that have not been acknowledged:

Firstly, the criminal gangs who administer ''justice'' are the sole arbiters of who is guilty or not guilty. There is no due process, no right of appeal; just an extra-judiciary knee-capping or ''punishment beating'', which are undertaken by the more psychopathic henchmen of these gangs.

People may get away with a ''slap on the wrist'' in the criminal justice system, but at least they usually have had a fair trial.

Secondly, these obnoxious groups, such as the UDA or IRA, aren't exactly bastions of morality. Just as violent inmates - convicted of some atrocious crimes - will target ''immoral'' sex offenders in prison, then criminal gangs will also get all high and mighty about other anti-social behaviour that they disapprove of.

The terrorist groups in Northern Ireland are directly and indirectly involved in human trafficking of young women from Eastern Europe and further afield. Just don't mention it in one of those areas where they rule with an iron fist - you might just get kneecapped ( if you're lucky ).

Some of you are grasping the point and some arnt.

The point is that we have had a social struggle over here for the past 30 years to give more power to the people and to remove the power from greedy people.

Why yes I do agree with the fact that 'some' of the what you call 'gang' deal drugs and prostitution but not the two i mentioned, the big players in this country. They do activly remove drug dealers from estates and other anti social elements. They do not however false imprison offenders more like give him a clip round the ear and told to get out and not come back. Where as the police cannot give them a clip round the ear more like a slap on the wrist for the offenders to come back time and time again.

I can walk down any street in a protestant neighbourhood at night with no fear, even the dark ones, I will let the kids I look after play anywhere they want in my area as I know they are safe.

The other thing to come out of this 'civil war' is a kind of bond with people that live in the same area as you this because of siege mentality everyone knows each other and all of their business, not like other countries where you dont even know your neighbour, over here everybody not only knows everyone on their street but several streets across and over.

I am only listing idea's here for a psy and soc paper any interaction is more than welcome.

For the person that called me an idiot let me just throw out my qualifications here to let you in on a little secret. My job is to write papers on our social surroundings and its outcomes. (Last week i wrote a paper on how the state legitimises its power though the democratic process.) The language may not be user friendly at the moment because it is on an internet forum and I like to make it more appealing for the general public by using slang. If it progresses into one of my papers it will have nicer cleaner language.

Michael Mcclenaghan

Degree - Psychology
A-Level - Psychology
A-Level - Sociolology
A-Level Government & Politics
A-Level History

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by Mike_A
reply to post by michaelmcclen

 

I can walk down any street in a protestant neighbourhood at night with no fear

But not a catholic neighbourhood or if you’re a traffic warden because you’d be terrified of being jumped by tw*ts like you and having the # kicked out of you.

For the person that called me an idiot let me just throw out my qualifications here to let you in on a little secret. My job is to write papers on our social surroundings and its outcomes. (Last week i wrote a paper on how the state legitimises its power though the democratic process.)

Bully for you but you’re still a deluded pillock.

If it progresses into one of my papers it will have nicer cleaner language.

Oh you mean you’ll leave out the bit about how great you think it is to beat up innocent people. I stand by my opinion, you’re a f*cking idiot.


What you describe is only a Utopia, if it can be described as such for anyone, for those who meet the approval of the most violent; great if you fit that mould, not so much if you have different political views, want to worship a different god or just happen to work “for the man”.

For me a key feature of a Utopia is freedom, you don’t have it.

Freedom is a state of mind, i chose not to walk into a catholic neighbourhood because I have no need to. Just because i said i can walk down a protestant neighbourhood and not worry does not mean i cant do the same in a catholic neighbourhood.

I describe a utopia with rules but you cannot be harrased by local government. Which is what isee a utopia. At the end of the day their still needs to be rules and regulations but the petty stuff like parking tickets and anti social behaviour is delt with out fines or imprisionment.

Im sorry you cant see it the way alot of other people see it. I understand you think we are all a bunch of nutters spoiling for a fight, but that is far from the truth. Your just nit picking for the sake of nit picking and putting words in my mouth. do your self a favour if your not going to be constructive to a paper im considering writing then hit the back button.

When writing a paper nothing is taboo, some of the worst topics that create tension make the best reading material and all your doing to looking for the taboo and trying to prevoke a reaction.

Good day to you sir and dont let the door hit you on the way out as i will be ignoring any further comment you make as you are an outsider looking into my culture and spouting hearsay and not knowing the full story.

It may not be a utopia in your eyes, but then again if i was living in England and your tax money was being spent on us I would be pretty piss*d also considering I dont have to deal with the petty issues you have to on the mainland.

reply to post by michaelmcclen

Just because i said i can walk down a protestant neighbourhood and not worry does not mean i cant do the same in a catholic neighbourhood.

But it does though.

At the end of the day their still needs to be rules and regulations

Rules like don’t be a different religion, don’t have different political views, don’t grass up criminals and don’t work for “the man”.

The rules of your “utopia” are based on prejudice and hate.

but the petty stuff like parking tickets and anti social behaviour is delt with out fines or imprisionment.

And who decides who’s guilty, who decides what the punishment is, what can you do if you think you’re innocent? I know, it’s the thug, the thug, and bugger all.

I understand you think we are all a bunch of nutters spoiling for a fight, but that is far from the truth. Your just nit picking for the sake of nit picking and putting words in my mouth.

Am I? Did I edit your OP to force you to say…

We still would knock out a traffic warden and think nothing of it because he's being a di*k and working for the man. The banks cant touch us here because we do not have bailifs as we are to violent to them as they are working for the "man".

I don’t think it’s nit picking to point out that you advocate the meeting out of summary beatings based on someone’s work.

I you wanted polite discourse you shouldn’t have marked yourself, as you did, as a horrible violent person.