Something We Avoid Talking About. Those We Have To Leave Behind.

I have written quite a bit on the survival forum. Everything from growing potatoes in a garbage can, to removing your teeth in case of non medical attention and fear of infection. The one thing that even the most hardcore survivalist seems to pass, is, what do you do about those that you have to leave behind.

Those that are into bug out bags, survival, etc,. Are fully aware that our thoughts are few. Its quite scary to think that we can think that far ahead, yet have to deal with the pain of leaving certain people behind, because they are not that serious, or dont believe that these things are necessary.

Sure we can take care of food, water, medical issues, and more. What we fail, and not purposely is to see that there is a possibility that this may all be in vain, if we cannot disconnect ourselves from those who just dont think its so. I am fully aware that there are some that I am close to that I may have to suck it up and leave if they choose to stay behind. This scares the heck out of me. Yet... its a part of the reality for the true survivalist.

There are many, and its not exactly sad to say, that we will stand against our own instincts to protect those that chose to not only be prepared, but are asking or begging for our help, and some of us will turn back. This is what makes us strong. This is what makes us fully aware of our out look on any catastrophe that may come.

We have to be strong, resilient, helpful, caring, and prepared. I commend those of you that have chose to awaken and or prepare those that think that this is an unnecessary action in their lives. We have to be caring, yet careful. Its a heavy burden, and yes some of us will be called out. But thats what strength is all about.

Peace, NRE.

I've been plannin my survival for the past 2 years. Found an old cave in the middle of a distant forest, where very few people know about. Got food supplies almost ready. All the gear, preplanned places of use on a map in the caves area. Enough space for about 5 people, even designed a sort of door. (which will be put on last minute). But the thing is I've only one friend sharing it. Recently my gf's fell pregnant and my family refuse to survive. They say when the time comes they want to be at home with the people they love. They honestly and seriously annoyed by my survival plans. How do i get them to change there mind? Because at the moment, I'm thinking about scrapping my plans and dying gracefully with them all

reply to post by Wolvo


When SHTF and they realize the situation they're in is far worse than they imagine, they'll definitely not be thinking twice about leaving home.

It's human instinct to survive, and right now there isn't a need for that, and so they're probably feeling meh about it.

When the time comes.. when survival is all that matters.. they'll change their minds.

If not, nothing much you can do about it.

when and if the time comes it will be hard for you but i bet it will be harder in seeing what they may become. youll see honest people become killers and theives to survive if it gets that bad only because they never prepared. hopfully it never comes to that.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

you mean the "Lot's Wife" syndrome?

I guess my people are all freaks: everyone ready to go, and help out, but understanding of how things are.

Of course, we have small kids. And so they "automatically" go with us when we decide to move. Other family members appreciate our plans, even when they don't agree with them. But we're too far along the path for any of them to expect us to alter our course because they wanna play Lot's wife.

(Lot had been told that the cities in the valley where he lived were going to be wiped out. He took his wife and daughters and fled on foot. But his wife was reluctant to flee, and turn her back on their previous life. Maybe she was just curious to see such destruction on such a massive scale. Whatever. At any rate she stopped to watch, and was turned into a pillar of salt.)

My extended family and friends know that they don't control me and mine. Ancestors came to this country in a time of crisis. Some chose to stay in the old country, and were lost. Some fled East, and have never been heard from again. But that's the backdrop when we make choices in my family. Everyone understands that such choices are life-and-death, and so we let others live, if they think that's what they're doing.

Remember, you cannot change someone else's mind against their will. And they cannot control yours. So don't control other people, and don't let them run you.


Who knows? Maybe they are right this time, and you're the mistaken fool. So let them go their way.

I've actually thought a lot about this and have decided that, for the most part, it's out of all of our hands. No matter how prepared we think we are, we can't make any assumptions about who will survive and who will not. Depending on what it is that happens and how, what the catastrophe or situation might be, we may all wind up in the same boat. It may well be that decision to leave takes us into a situation worse than what those we leave behind will face. Or it may be that those who flee or are left with nothing will find what it takes within them to survive with no preparation at all. It's a crap shoot, and not the kind where even loaded dice would make a difference.

I have a very good friend that is on a kidney donor waiting list. He requires dialysis. If the SHTF, he's screwed & he knows it. He has two days, then it's downhill from there. We don't like to think about it, but we have in a 'what if' capacity.

Medicine will be the hot black market item. Insulin and antibiotics would be priceless.

Those that will be forced to remain behind in an emergency/disaster/survival situation will be the first to fall by the wayside. Those infirm and invalid should be well aware of this and make preparations, if possible, or be ready and willing to accept the implications.

One sick or less than able bodied individual will endanger or forfeit the lives of everyone trying to carry the uneven load.

In other words, save one bullet for yourself.

Pets...
Cats can fend for themselves. Dogs can too if you let them out of the backyard or house instead if leaving them to die with no options. Don't jeopardize human lives for the sake of old Fluffy. Besides... you may need to eat the dog/cat food... or the dog/cat.

Those that refuse to acknowledge the possible collapse of civilization are pretty much on the Darwin Award recipient list as far as the book of survival goes. We cannot prepare for every contingency, but we sure as hell can try, and might as well.

I expect those that instilled survival skills in me to do what must be done. Charity and hospitality would be luxury at best.

Good, but grim, discussion. I bet your right in thinking most people don't even want to think about it.

Is this about people who just flat out refuse to leave, or people that want to go with you, but you won't let them because of limited supplies?

Both situations should be discussed in my opinion. I think there would be more people that want to go with you, but that you can't take.

I'm single as of now, and have no children. I do have family, but I don't know what I would do as far as taking them with me. That may sound awful, but if we are talking about survival here, I know they would probably be a death sentence for me. What use is it to "save" other people, if the very act of "saving" them means your death, and their death anyway?

Some people are dead regardless of what you can do to help them. Like someone else mentioned with someone who required frequent medical attention. Even if you take them with you, feed them, and protect them, they are not going to survive. So why take a chance with your life, to simply put off what's going to happen either way?

As far as those who are completely unprepared, if I had a surplus of goods I would absolutely help them out and let them come along. There is strength in numbers. But if I barely had enough to get by on my own, I would disappear. YOU are making the choice to survive right now. THEY are making the choice to NOT survive. It's not your fault, it's not your choice. They are in effect expecting you to go down with them, just because they felt buying an I pod or big screen TV was more important than guns, ammo, and food.

I would try to take my cat. He follows me, so it wouldn't be any extra work to take him along. He already feeds himself quite a bit, always eating mice and birds. I'd bet he could survive by himself, but if not feeding a cat isn't exactly a big deal. Plus, if food was that scarce, I could eat him. I love my cat to death, and don't want to think about it, but he could be a food supply. Plus he hears things far before I ever could. If someone is coming towards you, or a large animal or something, odds are a cat would perk up and alert you to this. I've had my cat alert me to people coming up my front stairs before I ever heard them (not intruders, just visitors) Plus it's an extra warm body to have snuggling with you if it's cold out. And the obvious companionship that would help out greatly if you are all alone.

reply to post by Wolvo


I'm with them on that. Not that I wouldn't want to be among the survivors, but I already tried living outdoors and went camping, etc, and it simply just is not for me. I endured constant discomfort because of the high humidity at night, and I know that if escape were to come in winter, then there's no way I could manage. I am not able to endure extremes of temperature at all, and I simply have too much trouble breathing in torrid temps. So whereas I wish you all well, it just is not in my destiny to even try to move on, and my family knows that. I would rather die at home, and alone if need be, without regrets at all. My love will go with them wherever they are, but they must accept my position just as I must accept theirs.

Now I know that there are some people like me, because I've met them. So what I suggest is that you discuss things with them and detatch yourself from guilt or blame or dependence on them or their dependence on you. In your gf's case, she may not be open to survivalist conversation at the moment, but when that baby arrives I'm betting she would do whatever it would take to assure the safety of that child.

All the best.

reply to post by NoRegretsEver


I can honestly say I have never avoided talking about this issue...
once a week we call my father in law and beg him to come live with us....

but lets face facts... he's a grown man... able to make his own decisions.... it's not up to me or anyone else to dictate his choices... sure I worry and feel bad especially now that his once upper middle class suburb has gone to seed, overrun with drug addicts and gang members... but that's his house, the house he and his wife raised their kids in... his wife, my mother in law passed away in their house just a couple of years ago and still he wont move... to be honest I think forcing him to do so would cause more harm than good.... I might not like and certainly my wife doesn't either... but he's happy where he is....

If he choses to come I would carry him on my back... no burden too great, no sacrifice to small... that's is what it means to be a husband and father....We leave no one behind on purpose... but sometimes we have to say good luck and goodbye

reply to post by James1982


You aren't wrong about the cat awareness.

Some cats make great watchers and listeners for things.
It's no mistake they used to keep watch in the Temples of Siam (and still do to this day...)

reply to post by Wolvo


If you do bug out to your cave, you'll have to make your fires outside. If you build a fire inside a cave, it will heat the walls and ceiling unevenly and cause the rock to fracture and cave in on you. Thought I'd mention that in case you decide to leave your loved ones and hide in that cave.

There are a couple of categories that various people may be thinking of:

-Spouse
I can imagine a spouse who thinks you are nuts, won't help with preparations, or wants to go and stay with their parents in a crisis, regardless of the relevance of doing so.

-Elderly/Infirm
I can imagine caring for an adult who requires care; the concern would be whether including them could reduce everyone else's survival chance. On the other hand, leaving them seems cruel as well.

-Relatives
People who mock your plans. You feel the urge to save them a seat, just in case they change their minds at the last.

-Children
From little kids who will insist on bringing a pet or stuffed animal, up to teenagers who won't leave without their boyfriend, or who don't want to miss a party. Watch them run away (!) to stay with their social circle, instead of going with you and 'getting on the ark.'


Personally, I am very blessed in these regards. Frau Doktor has seen me be right so many times that she no longer questions my seeming eccentricities. Heck, we've almost finished off the last of the paper towels I bought for Y2K....

And the kids think dad is "normal"; at least they pretend to. Even if they secretly think I'm a kooky old fool, I spend a lot more time with them than neighbor dads do with their kids. So which is more fun, going to school on a Monday morning, or working with your father learn to navigate overland with a sextant?

be realistic ... when the SHTF it will be too late to go very far ..... if you are making plans move to your selected area and get ebstablished!

reply to post by NoRegretsEver


That is the hardest thing that most will deal with....I know that many will suffer and die, if your not realistic with the situations you have to deal with, your going to set yourself up for failure.

I don't want to have them left behind, but if the SHTF and your bugging in or out, and they need meds or other services to stay alive, they are going to slow you down and probably get you hurt or killed..at some ppoint everyone dies, we are born and we die that is the cycle of life....when its your time...its your time.

I know this sounds cold hearted but are you willing to give up your life and your family for uncle fred or cousin joe who needs meds you ran out of or can no longer get....if they are in a wheelchair or have special needs your kinda in the same boat...

You need to do all you can while you can, but you have to keep in mind there are others that you need to take care of too..it will not be easy but it will be a decision that will have to be made one way or another by many of us.

reply to post by NoRegretsEver


I've been prepped for a few months now. None of my family seems to really think anything bad could ever happen to them, so I took it upon myself to pack them each an emergency bag. They don't know about it either, they'd think I'm insane. Also, since the most likely occurrence in my area would be an earthquake, I already have my whole emergency plan mapped out, and I'm the daughter.

If there's anything I can do, it's to prepare for the people that refuse to. I care too much, if they don't listen, atleast I tried.

Originally posted by NoRegretsEver
I have written quite a bit on the survival forum. Everything from growing potatoes in a garbage can, to removing your teeth in case of non medical attention and fear of infection. The one thing that even the most hardcore survivalist seems to pass, is, what do you do about those that you have to leave behind.

Those that are into bug out bags, survival, etc,. Are fully aware that our thoughts are few. Its quite scary to think that we can think that far ahead, yet have to deal with the pain of leaving certain people behind, because they are not that serious, or dont believe that these things are necessary.

Sure we can take care of food, water, medical issues, and more. What we fail, and not purposely is to see that there is a possibility that this may all be in vain, if we cannot disconnect ourselves from those who just dont think its so. I am fully aware that there are some that I am close to that I may have to suck it up and leave if they choose to stay behind. This scares the heck out of me. Yet... its a part of the reality for the true survivalist.

There are many, and its not exactly sad to say, that we will stand against our own instincts to protect those that chose to not only be prepared, but are asking or begging for our help, and some of us will turn back. This is what makes us strong. This is what makes us fully aware of our out look on any catastrophe that may come.

We have to be strong, resilient, helpful, caring, and prepared. I commend those of you that have chose to awaken and or prepare those that think that this is an unnecessary action in their lives. We have to be caring, yet careful. Its a heavy burden, and yes some of us will be called out. But thats what strength is all about.

Peace, NRE.

Thankfully I don't have the delemias that you have but if for some reason my son couldn't leave I would stay with him; and if I had to leave people behind to save my son I would do so. I would do anything to protect my son. I would feel bad leaving people but my son comes first, before anyone else.

Originally posted by MichiganSwampBuck
reply to post by Wolvo

 

If you do bug out to your cave, you'll have to make your fires outside. If you build a fire inside a cave, it will heat the walls and ceiling unevenly and cause the rock to fracture and cave in on you. Thought I'd mention that in case you decide to leave your loved ones and hide in that cave.

Can't you also die from smoke inhalation (if you had a fire inside a cave)?

No one i know wants to survive, they are all leaving it in the hands of god....SO BE IT
I'll gather me some survivalists on the way, we'll make our own family

Thank goodness in our case, it's just my husband and I. We have made plans just in case and have the supplies we need to survive. We already live in an area that is rather out of the way, where there aren't many people. Neither of us has medical problems that need certain medicines to stay alive, so I think we are going to be ok on that one too. My kids are all grown with kids of their own, so they are responsible for themselves. If it came down to it, my hubby and I can just "walk away".

Best of luck and know how to prepare-- to everyone working hard on being ready for a SHTF situation. Take care!

Peace!
SK