Religious belief is human nature, huge new study claims

Originally posted by Buddha1098
reply to post by ziggyproductions05

 

I wouldn't say most. The Muslim conquest of India is the bloodiest war in history, but many refute the 80,000,000 casualty number as inflated. More people have died in secular wars throughout history than in religious ones.

It is true that more people died in secular wars than religious ones, but on the flip side, it is also true that there has been more deaths due to religion than due to atheism.

reply to post by ziggyproductions05


What a crock of garbage. Outside of eating, breathing, drinking, and relieving oneself, EVERYTHING that humans do is unnatural. To suggest that a belief structure is natural is a testament to the fact that people dont know what 'natural' means.

My beliefs are my beliefs, they might not necessarily be your beliefs and that's fine. We all have the capability to form our own opinions and beliefs, to follow whatever path we choose. Even though I am a Christian, I find some who share my faith quite repulsive, not because of their beliefs, but because of their rabid desire to either convert people or condemn then to Hell.

This is just wrong, Jesus didn't do it this way, and I don't think anyone else should. It's not my purpose as a Christian to lecture people, if they want to know and they ask me about it, I will tell them. I can't convert people, all I can do is talk to them in a kind manner and hopefully make a connection. Christianity should be about charity, love, kindness, and helping one another. It shouldn't be about who has the biggest church or who has converted the most people. Preachers don't bring people to God, God brings people to himself.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
reply to post by ziggyproductions05

 

What a crock of garbage. Outside of eating, breathing, drinking, and relieving oneself, EVERYTHING that humans do is unnatural. To suggest that a belief structure is natural is a testament to the fact that people dont know what 'natural' means.

Everything besides eating, breathing, drinking and using the bathroom is unnatrual? I think thats something none of us can truly know for sure. I dont think anyone has the exact recipe for human nature....

Sad but true. Definitely something we must overcome to survive.

Originally posted by Buddha1098
reply to post by ziggyproductions05

 

Whoa whoa whoa! Did someone on ATS actually research the facts and admit that they were wrong!? Maybe the world really is going to end! =)

Yes, i actually did. I dont mind, I learned something new.

I agree with you though, if people stopped arguing or killing each other over something that any intelligent person can see is unknowable the world would be a much better place. No more suicide bombers and no more Westboro Baptist Church.. That's the kind of planet I want to live on.

i couldnt agree with that statement more.

Originally posted by ziggyproductions05

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
reply to post by ziggyproductions05

 

What a crock of garbage. Outside of eating, breathing, drinking, and relieving oneself, EVERYTHING that humans do is unnatural. To suggest that a belief structure is natural is a testament to the fact that people dont know what 'natural' means.

Everything besides eating, breathing, drinking and using the bathroom is unnatrual? I think thats something none of us can truly know for sure. I dont think anyone has the exact recipe for human nature....

I disagree whole-heartedly, and I hate the term 'human-nature' for that reason. All of a sudden we can call a line of thinking, an act of aggression, a belief in something that has ZERO EVIDENCE as natural, or human nature.

The term human nature is narcissistic to its core. If we want to justify something, we call it human nature. Nevermind that in the natural world, we are the only entities who make these things up.

reply to post by ziggyproductions05


I love this topic, and I came to the conclusion as we left hunter and gathering, the garden, into an agricultural society/ civilized/ it became socially necessary for the survival of the tribe.

I love this quote

“The greatest enemies of ants are other ants,

just as the greatest enemies of men are other men,” observed the Swiss myrmecologist Auguste Forel.

It is striking that, with both ants and people, evolution should have made cooperation and warfare two sides of the same coin. Social cohesion is critical to both the ant and human systems. With ants, cohesion is secured by the shared chemical signals that regulate their behavior and the high degree of relatedness among members of a colony. Neither of these factors is compatible with human physiology. This is why ants don’t need religion but people do.”
www.nicholas-wade.com...

A solution gradually emerged to counter the two acute threats of freeloading and of warfare: religion.

Religious behavior addressed these two leading challenges to social order in the evolving human lineage. It both enforced the moral instincts and motivated people to pay any cost in defense of their community. Religion secured a new level of social cohesion by implanting in people’s minds a stern overseer of their actions. The Nuer, for instance, believe that “If a man wishes to be in the right with God he must be in the right with men, that is, he must subordinate his interests as an individual to the moral order of society,” writes E. E. Evans-Pritchard. It was belief in these supernatural supervisors that enabled egalitarian societies to emerge from the dictatorship of the alpha male which primate societies had endured for so long.

Originally posted by Buddha1098
reply to post by ziggyproductions05

 

I wouldn't say most. The Muslim conquest of India is the bloodiest war in history, but many refute the 80,000,000 casualty number as inflated. More people have died in secular wars throughout history than in religious ones.

I dont agree with that statment, but it will come down to semantics. How many pagans were killed by the christians? How many jews were killed by the nazis? How many people have been killed in the asian religious wars? How many native americans were killed by christian settlers? How many people in the ME have been killed? It goes on and on, but gets written off because you can claim that some of these were not religious wars (even though they absolutely were).

reply to post by TheDebunkMachine


Guns kill people does that mean guns are bad or the people who use them?

reply to post by Stormdancer777


Thanks for your post. This is a topic that interests me as well. I've always agreed with the author of the book you linked to, religion is a survival tool. The comparison of humans and ants from the excerpt is very intriguing.

The idea of God is a genetic malfuncution. It is a misinterpretation of what we see in our "Parents" as a cosmologically reality. perhaps, perhaps not.

Originally posted by ziggyproductions05

Religion comes naturally, even instinctively, to human beings, a massive new study of cultures all around the world suggests."We tend to see purpose in the world," Oxford University professor Roger Trigg said Thursday. "We see agency. We think that something is there even if you can't see it. ... All this tends to build up to a religious way of thinking."

I agree that religion comes naturally, but not for the reasons given. In my opinion, primitive man had the ability to think, but he had no information. So when frightful calamites occurred (earthquakes, volcanoe eruptions, hurricanes...) he had to think these things came from a power greater than nature. Over the centuries these powers (gods) were slowly replaced by logic until we got down to one god. This last god is hard to do away with because of mankind's fear that there's nothing after death.

edit on 5/12/2011 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)

I think a need for spiritualism and/or religion is rooted in an understanding that reality is more complex than we can comprehend.

When I have an experience or feel emotions that I can not fully explain or understand in a logical manner, it can feel a bit magical.

Many people find comfort in ritualistic - predictable - behavior. Maybe those who find comfort in predictability are more likely to seek out religion? I myself seek novelty.

I would not be considered a Christian, nor do I self identify as one, but I do have a relationship with Christ in our own way.

reply to post by captaintyinknots


You could argue that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are religious wars. Or you could argue they are over oil money. Or you could argue it's western imperialism. Or you could argue all three. Most likely it's all three. Have people been killed for their religious beliefs? Of course they have. Have the vast majority of wars been just about religion? I'd say that is a little simplistic.

Originally posted by Buddha1098
reply to post by captaintyinknots

 

You could argue that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are religious wars. Or you could argue they are over oil money. Or you could argue it's western imperialism. Or you could argue all three. Most likely it's all three. Have people been killed for their religious beliefs? Of course they have. Have the vast majority of wars been just about religion? I'd say that is a little simplistic.

You missed my point, while illustrating it perfectly. Nearly ALL wars have religious aspects to them. therefore, to say more people have been killed in secular wars is flat out wrong.

I didnt say they were just about religion, but I did say that most wars have a religious aspect to them, and that is a true statement.

Originally posted by Royalkin
My beliefs are my beliefs, they might not necessarily be your beliefs and that's fine. We all have the capability to form our own opinions and beliefs, to follow whatever path we choose. Even though I am a Christian, I find some who share my faith quite repulsive, not because of their beliefs, but because of their rabid desire to either convert people or condemn then to Hell.

This is just wrong, Jesus didn't do it this way, and I don't think anyone else should. It's not my purpose as a Christian to lecture people, if they want to know and they ask me about it, I will tell them. I can't convert people, all I can do is talk to them in a kind manner and hopefully make a connection. Christianity should be about charity, love, kindness, and helping one another. It shouldn't be about who has the biggest church or who has converted the most people. Preachers don't bring people to God, God brings people to himself.

edit on 12-5-2011 by Royalkin because: Grammar

As an athiest, I don't mind if people want to believe in a mythical magical being. I just hate it when children are exposed to it in the form of brainwashing. Let the kids grow up first, so they can form a mature decision about such things.

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by Royalkin
My beliefs are my beliefs, they might not necessarily be your beliefs and that's fine. We all have the capability to form our own opinions and beliefs, to follow whatever path we choose. Even though I am a Christian, I find some who share my faith quite repulsive, not because of their beliefs, but because of their rabid desire to either convert people or condemn then to Hell.

This is just wrong, Jesus didn't do it this way, and I don't think anyone else should. It's not my purpose as a Christian to lecture people, if they want to know and they ask me about it, I will tell them. I can't convert people, all I can do is talk to them in a kind manner and hopefully make a connection. Christianity should be about charity, love, kindness, and helping one another. It shouldn't be about who has the biggest church or who has converted the most people. Preachers don't bring people to God, God brings people to himself.

edit on 12-5-2011 by Royalkin because: Grammar

As an athiest, I don't mind if people want to believe in a mythical magical being. I just hate it when children are exposed to it in the form of brainwashing. Let the kids grow up first, so they can form a mature decision about such things.

EXACTLY. To claim it is human nature is silly, considering we have no testimony from a tme before religion exhisted. There has not been a generation that has lived without religious indoctrination in one way or another. Therefore, to claim it is natural is naive.

Also, to justify believing in something that one WANTS to be true as natural is simply a cop-out.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
reply to post by ziggyproductions05

 

I disagree whole-heartedly, and I hate the term 'human-nature' for that reason. All of a sudden we can call a line of thinking, an act of aggression, a belief in something that has ZERO EVIDENCE as natural, or human nature.

I dont see how a line of thinking isnt natural. How would our thoughts be unnatural? Whats natural about humans having faith and believing in something is that it wont always have to be Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, etc that we are accustomed to having faith in like many do today, it could simply be a tree, the sun or some other natural occurence that could provide a source of survival that we put our faith and beliefs in.

The term human nature is narcissistic to its core. If we want to justify something, we call it human nature. Nevermind that in the natural world, we are the only entities who make these things up.

How is it narcissistic? Isnt that hard to determine if any other creature on this planet does or dosnt have a certain set of beliefs? I think thats narcissistic to think. Social behavior exists in all groups of animals and people and is quite natural. The whole point of this study is that it IS natural to have a belief system or faith in something..

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
reply to post by ziggyproductions05

 

What a crock of garbage. Outside of eating, breathing, drinking, and relieving oneself, EVERYTHING that humans do is unnatural. To suggest that a belief structure is natural is a testament to the fact that people dont know what 'natural' means.

I agree in the direction you're going with this, but you forgot things that we can still witness in the lower primates. Things like: selfishness, greed, the need to dominate, fear, curiosity, to fight, to kill, to hunt, the instinct to care for our young... All of these things are what defines man. Religion comes from fear of the unknown, so that too is natural. If mankind were wiped out and restarted, over and over and over, religion would be there everytime. Probably not the same religions or the same gods, but fear in a higher power would keep repeating itself.