Are You One of 23,000 Defendants in the US' Biggest Illegal Download Lawsuit?

Originally posted by Soloist

Originally posted by leejohnbarnes
If you buy a CD and upload it - and gain no profit from that - then the band cannot assume they have had a loss of income as someone had downloaded it - as they cannot prove that the person who downloaded it ever intended to buy that CD in the first place.

The law cannot prove loss unless a loss has taken place - therefore to assume a loss is a legal fiction.

Of course they don't intend to buy it, that's the point of stealing it in the first place.

The band doesn't have to prove anything about the intent of the person stealing from them. You got use out of something that you didn't pay for. Just like the amusement park analogy from earlier... you jump a fence, bypassing the normal way most people pay to get in (downloading) then ride all the rides you want for as long as you want (listening/watching/using the software) and maybe after that you decide it just wasn't fun enough, so you shouldn't have to pay. Or maybe you did have fun, but the fun was over, so why pay? You already got your enjoyment, and you know you can keep doing it at anytime you want. Or, maybe you decide it was so great you should pay at some point in the future.

Sorry, but it doesn't work that way. The person who does the work gets to decide how to operate their business, NOT YOU! If you don't like it, then go do something else, but you do not have the right to pay as you please.

More silly justifications is what this is and It's not working. You can twist it all you want, but it's still stealing, and it's wrong.

No, its not stealing - its a copyright violation, not a theft.

Calling it theft is wrong in fact and law.

The breach as stated above is a copyright violation.

The damages relate to the copyright breach, not a theft.

Originally posted by leejohnbarnes

Because I fear the growth of the corporate fascist state and its erosion of fundamental principles such as the right to private property.

Hmmm. So you would choose to erode the right to private property (the artists private intellectual property) to supplant it by your own private property rights out of their creation?

Isn't that the same definition of fascist state you are decrying? Anti-capitalism (a tenet of fascism) Anti-democratic (a tenet of fascism), anti-individualism...the artists individualism (a tenet of fascism), anti-liberal (a tenet of fascism) and anti-conservative (a tenet of fascism).

Originally posted by leejohnbarnes
The fact is the people who produce movies / music have enough protection under existing copyright law without seeking to dominate the internet, turn it into a monitored environment and profit from threatening people with legal action who do not know their rights nor have the money to hire lawyers to fight the cases for them.

Uh-huh, except you're not hurting the mass production houses as they are only the contractors and can always contract for ANY mass-production work. But the artists have ONE career path and when people decide not to pay them for their work, well, why should they work? Then they can go on unemployment that your taxes will pay for and THEN, perhaps you will be satisfied?

Originally posted by leejohnbarnes
No, its not stealing - its a copyright violation, not a theft.

Calling it theft is wrong in fact and law.

The breach as stated above is a copyright violation.

The damages relate to the copyright breach, not a theft.

You're getting use out of something I created without paying me for my work.

You are stealing from me. Justify it all you want, but it's still stealing.

reply to post by Soloist


I hope someone steals your car and shows you the difference between theft, and copyright violation.....

Originally posted by TKDRL
I hope someone steals your car and shows you the difference between theft, and copyright violation.....

Spoken like a true construction worker.

Since you folks have no moral problems with ripping me off, I hope that I'm there to see the look on the judge's face after you're caught when you try to explain to him that what you're doing is perfectly ok.

Maybe then, and probably ONLY then, will you ever learn.

reply to post by Soloist


I will repeat for you, your federal law BS, does not apply to me.... I am not breaking local laws by downloading here. Sorry. If you can't understand the difference between theft and copyright violation, that is your own problem. USA don't run the world

Don't think they can really pull it off.

Something like this happened before but to a single individual I posted the defense for it and explained how you could download something through someone else's IP address it's a piece of cake. Needless to say my posts on the sites were all deleted in less than 24 hours.

The defense used was a joke in the case obviously they wanted her to be a public example.

Besides remember the grandma that was sued for downloading death metal songs? She was 86 years old. Don't know if the case was dropped or not.

Edit: Or maybe it was gangster rap

How about if you buy a ticket to the a Live Musical Performance. What do you think that entitles you to with regard to possessing the music you hear?

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by Soloist

 

I will repeat for you, your federal law BS, does not apply to me.... I am not breaking local laws by downloading here. Sorry. If you can't understand the difference between theft and copyright violation, that is your own problem. USA don't run the world

Yawn.

Funny, but you're talking about ripping off citizens of the U.S. If you hate us so much, STOP STEALING our creative works.

Don't think it won't catch up to you eventually.

reply to post by Soloist


No thanks, as long as your fellow countrymen keep up their civil disobedience by uploading stuff to the internet, I will keep right on downloading it. The US cannot touch me, I am not living in some third world country with no real military, your country won't be bombing us anytime soon.

BTW I never claimed I hate the US, just the damn government. Was the same when I lived there too.

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by Soloist

 

No thanks, as long as your fellow countrymen keep up their civil disobedience by uploading stuff to the internet, I will keep right on downloading it. The US cannot touch me, I am not living in some third world country with no real military, your country won't be bombing us anytime soon.

BTW I never claimed I hate the US, just the damn government. Was the same when I lived there too.

edit on Fri, 13 May 2011 15:05:31 -0500 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)

So you screw over the people who make your entertainment.

Can't wait to see the look on your face when one day you do get caught. All of you and your type should be ashamed of yourselves. We give you enjoyment and you rip us off while trying and failing miserably to justify it.

reply to post by Soloist


1 out of 1000 things I download, are worth the time and I pay for it. Again, you keep trying to say I am breaking the law. I am not, it is perfectly legal here to upload and download.... I will not get caught, because I am not breaking the law. If I can't have a way to preview, then entertainment will get no money at all. I do not need movies and music.

reply to post by TKDRL


Lucky you, man. I need music, art and literature to survive. Life -- to me -- is meaningless without art.

reply to post by 0zzymand0s


Well me too.... But I can make my own. I don't need any made by others.

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by 0zzymand0s

 

Well me too.... But I can make my own. I don't need any made by others.

So stop stealing what you don't need.

You make the weakest argument, and prove yourself to be a thief with every comment. If you could make your own (and I highly doubt it) you would get the point, but you don't.

reply to post by alphabetaone


you. because you said 20 something pages ago that it is "Stealing".

even the law refers to it as "infringement" and gives it its own charge.

this whole time ive been trying to get you to acknowledge that there is a difference. even gave you a real world example of its relevance...which was ignored of course.

reply to post by Soloist


Look smart guy, I have pointed out, again and again, that before I had my download sources, I screened stuff still. If you don't like it, well then I guess you must be involved in a lot of crap projects. It must suck to be you, you obviously went into whatever field you are in, thinking that it was immune to failure, since you are protected by copyright laws. You sound really bitter that you didn't get rich like the ones that came before you. Well, times change, and so do markets. If everyone was making a great living in the real world, people in the entertainment world would still be getting rich left and right. Well, your customers are hurting in the real world, only the rich fatcats are making a killing, that never changes.

And I don't steal nothing. I download what is offered to me. Same as how I used to trade movies, and cassettes with my friends back in the day.

Originally posted by TKDRL
I guess you must be involved in a lot of crap projects.

You've guessed quite wrong.

It must suck to be you

Not at all, I get to do what I love, and get paid for it... from those that don't steal it that is.

You sound really bitter that you didn't get rich like the ones that came before you.

Nope. I don't like people who willingly steal from me, while getting enjoyment out of my work. Pay your fair share or don't play.

Well, your customers are hurting in the real world, only the rich fatcats are making a killing, that never changes.

Of what a load of BS!

Yes, it's US in the entertainment business that are raping you blind, "making a killing" off the poor needy people in the world....

No, I don't think so.

You're getting raped by the oil and gas companies.
You're getting raped at the grocery store.
You're getting raped at the insurance company.
You're getting raped by the mortgage companies.
You're getting raped by clothing/general goods stores.

These poor people that are "hurting in the real world" seem to have enough for all of the above, plus pay for electricity, a broadband connection, a computer, and have plenty of time to search around and download my stuff without paying for it. And plenty here also have time to come here and whine about the lawsuit. Why aren't these "hurting" people spending time looking for work, or ways to make more money instead?

Entertainment is not a necessity. They only do it because they can and don't care about the people that actually do this for a living. Not because those "in the real world are hurting".

And I don't steal nothing.

LOL. I take your double negative sentence at it's true meaning then.

You admitted to paying for 1 out of every 1000 things you download. So yes, you steal.

I download what is offered to me.

Nothing is being offered to you by the owners of the content. This is a thief offering another thief stolen entertainment. This is nothing more than saying someone cut a hole in the fence at the amusement park, so you're going to keep going through it as long as it's there, and screw those who make a living off of it.

Originally posted by RelentlessLurker
reply to post by alphabetaone

 

you. because you said 20 something pages ago that it is "Stealing".

even the law refers to it as "infringement" and gives it its own charge.

this whole time ive been trying to get you to acknowledge that there is a difference. even gave you a real world example of its relevance...which was ignored of course.

Don't be willfully ignorant to serve your cause. What's the point of copyright infringement if not to steal? In the case of duplicated COPYRIGHTED material with no authorization, there is no distinction. Why should I concede to you making the distinction when it's for the same purpose? That's just sheer stupidity and deflection on your part and I won't let you play that game.

reply to post by Soloist


I would quote you like you did me, but I really don't have the time. If you were making out like a bandit, then you wouldn't be complaining, would you? The rich fatcats are still making all the money. The producers, who sick lawyers on downloaders, and sue them for 1000%.

And to all your rape charges, no. Maybe you are getting raped by them, but I am not. I have freed myself from those parasites, I hope one day you will too.

As for the next paragraph, you pegged me one out of however many you listed. I have a computer. What you may not know, is that companies that hire illegal immigrants, drove honest people out of business. People unluckeir than me are now living in tents. I had a house that I inherited to fall back on, I am one of the lucky ones.

I pay for 1/1000, because that is all that is worthy of getting my money. The rest suck, and I don't care if they go out of business. They deserve to for putting out crap.

I really don't care who is offering it to me. People that bought a ticket, people that bought a CD, peple that bought a DVD, basic cable, radio. It is all the same to me. Doesn't make a difference where I get to screen it for free.