The Weird and Wacky World of Physics: The Big Bang, Holograms and Repulsive Gravity

Nice thread :-)

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


I completely agree; I wonder why people differentiate both and state they are incompatible...to me, they can be merged together...Religion and science can both merge and I get upset by the large "rivalry" between these two.

I guess we'll never find out the truth though; where did we come from, did some higher being cause this? However, it's yours to believe in, yours to interpretate and no one can change it! That's what science and religion both have...and that's the magic of it.

...Big Bang

Stopped reading

Originally posted by wkworthington3
Modern physics, astronomy and cosmology are all pet peeves of mine. Didn't anyone else notice how many theories, conjectures, hypotheses and plain old "we think"s were mentioned in the OP. Thanks OP for compiling this information, but I guarantee you in fifty years or less people will laugh at us just like we laugh at those who believed in aether. Oh wait, many of the all-pervading forces that you discuss sound a lot like aether. In fact, you could probably simplify a lot of physics if you brought back that concept.

we all look at newtonian physics as a necessary evil - we know it is not the "true" explanation of things but it has enough utility in our macroscopic world that it is still in general use. We cannot even explain to most scientists' satisfaction why electrons don't spiral into the nucleus, how a covalent bond is truly formed, how gravity works, how mass is imbued, what inertia is, how force is carried, and on and on and on. Ali G was right in that even a simple magnet is a miracle according to our current understanding of physics. When even our most basic physics is based not only on unproved assumptions but wild guesses, well you can imagine how much faith I have in the complex stuff.

Modern physics is a patchwork of cobbled together ad hoc theories that are constantly being fudged in order to explain the next unexplainable unpredicted phenomenon. Until we have more honesty, more openness and less rigidity in the scientific community, we will still be burning fossil fuels and using AC power generators 100 years from now. I for one think that is a bleak future and hope that this foolish consistency of scientists to stick to the "mainstream" - even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary - will end. And by the way, I am about as mainstream, normal (for whatever that means these days) and educated a person as anyone and likely more than most, especially on this board. I just have decided that willful ignorance is not an option anymore and I would rather be told uncomfortable truths than convenient fabrications.

edit on 11-5-2011 by wkworthington3 because: (no reason given)

You seem to be under the false impression that just because things are labelled theories and so forth instead of Fact, that it means they are just a load of guesswork. It's true that the universe is a wonderous and complex thing, and because of this no 'theory' can be changed to a 'fact' until they can be 100% certain it is correct in every possible way. In some circumstances, due to the nature of the field, some theories may never be able to become a fact. We can never know with 100% certainty how the universe started for example because we cannot go back and actually see it happen. That's actually one of the best things regarding the scientific method in that we don't make assumptions that this and that are correct. Even if we can test models that show the same results as we see for the creation of the universe, since we cannot absolutely verify it, it will never be labelled as a fact.

However, when something is labelled as a scientific theory, that means it has passed through the phase of being a hypothesis. A hypothesis would be something that has not been tested and verified sufficiently to become a theory or a part of a larger theory. It's not guesswork...it's rigorously tested and proven hypothesis.

This is actually the line that creationists and other fringe psuedoscience proponents attempt to smudge in order to pull in more laymen to their doctrines. "Well it's only a theory" is a laughable statement to anyone who truly understands what it means for something to be a scientific theory. This is in part due to the nature of the English language in that we use the word 'theory' in everyday conversation to describe any of a range of guesses we have about things going on around us and some cannot differentiate that from what a scientific theory represents by comparison. So to simplify...the laymen everyday use of the term 'theory' is more equatable to a hypothesis and is nothing even remotely close to a scientific theory in regards to being tested and proven.

We 'fudge', as you put it, the current model to explain the next unexplainable or unpredictable thing simply because that's how the process works. It evolves as our understanding evolves and as we find new things. What alternative would you prefer? They find some minor variance in one thing or another so they throw out the entire related theory to start from scratch, or just investigate to find the cause of the variance and adjust the theory accordingly? That would be like having a car that is everything you ever wanted and then realizing you want an extra cupholder or fuzzy dice, so you throw away the car to go find a new one that already has them in it instead of just adding them to your current car.

I understand what you're saying about still using gas and what not, but that's not science's doing. There are plenty of alternatives out there that science has found. Many of which we even know about and have been using in other capacities for some time. The real problem there is the corporations and especially the oil companies who are making a killing off all of us with their BS oil prices. I'm sure they've silenced plenty of alternatives in the past...but they do know their days are numbered so they're trying to rob us blind while they can.

your thoughts created the universe as your thoughts creates your very own world today. The way you think creates your reality. I may look at mars and think about it, and you my friend may look at mars and think of it, but because of our thoughts will see mars a different way even though we have the same thoughts.

There was a thought in the higher level of conciousness. that thought was space/time. that created the universe.

And also, god ? god is you. You are a light being under the great light. All humans are connected together making the great light. All humans has different thoughts creating our own universe.

all humans has magnetic shield under the same earth magnetic shield. The more humans that thinks negativaly the more negative the magnetic shield of that person will be. so guess what? since we are under the same magnetic shield (earth), then we de-balance earth.

You create your own life from your own thoughts. So basically you will never see the real truth about the universe because we look at the universe as it is real, as it is what we see.

Your eyes only see electrical waves that is converted by your brain that creates images for you to see. Are you really aware of your environnement? I don't think we are. The answers are inside yourself and not outward.

so is the univers infinite? is your thoughts infinite? So i guess that answers your question.

Don't forget the great quote from Science. You cannot create what you cannot perceive! Humans has 6 senses. develop your 6th sense. Stop being filled with crap from the world. View the world YOU are in, not what other people think and you will discover the real truth about yourself... and since yourself is the light itself, youll discover the truth about the universe.

It is inside you, not outside. Feel the light, don't try to see it... Meditation is the tool to get you there.

reply to post by NewAgeMan

Thanks for these remarkable threads, dude.
They certainly get everyone thinking, i look forward to reading this one
FYI the man who wrote 'the hitch-hiker's guide to the galaxy'-Douglas Adams, also made THIS short film way back in the 80's or early 90's about the importance if INTERACTIVE media, like we're doing now
As to the metaphysical vs quantum mechanics side of life, the universe & everything, easily explained,i highly recommend THIS DOCUMENTARY
Have fun!
Be advised, this film is some 3 1/2 hours, so get comfy before you begin......

Originally posted by Mind1

...Big Bang

Stopped reading

..And yet you still posted. Interesting.

Originally posted by Rising Against

Originally posted by Mind1

...Big Bang

Stopped reading

..And yet you still posted. Interesting.

I think he meant that he stopped posting after seeing the awesomeness of this thread causing his head to preform its own "big bang". Physics was just too much to handle!

reply to post by Stop-loss!

I think he meant that he stopped posting after seeing the awesomeness of this thread causing his head to preform its own "big bang". Physics was just too much to handle!

Yeah.. Yeah! That must be it. Duh.

Originally posted by wkworthington3

Modern physics is a patchwork of cobbled together ad hoc theories that are constantly being fudged in order to explain the next unexplainable unpredicted phenomenon.

/agree 100%

Far too many fudge factors are present.

Making up all sorts of untestable nonsense such as dark matter and dark
energy to make the model work is religion.

Big Bang Theory = everything exploded out of one unexplainable condensed
point in space where the absolute rules of our physical universe didn't apply.

"Let there be light", sound familiar ?

The aether theory was discounted on the strength of one experiment but
there have been many, many, experiments attempting to prove that
non baryonic matter exists, none of which have been successful.

Yet, in spite of many, many, failed experiments we are still told that this
invisible titanic sea of non bayronic matter surrounds us because it makes
an invalid model work...

The same is true for particle physics, there are no detectable electro
strong/weak forces so they might just as well say there are two tiny gods
inside of each atom.

When someone mentions the Big Bang to me, I saw two things.

First:

"The big bang never occurred." And they invariably reply"

"If it didn't then how are we here?", etc.

I then reply"

"I couldn't have made a sound. Sound waves pass through AIR, and at that time there was NO air in existance."

Then the second is:

"Where did the elements involved in the big bang come from? They had to be put there somehow."

Thoughts???

Great thread. One of my interests are in the very tiny organic "machines" which make up our cells, how they interreact with other "machines", and the complexity of such structures. I'm wondering if by vibrating on a quantum level the cell can literally attract "attractive" counterparts, particularly other cells.

An extemely educational thread which you should be commended for. It was also presented in a way that was very comprehensive .Excellent Job!!!!!

reply to post by Version100


Not quite,
Modern physics IS cobbled together ad-hoc theories, yes, that's the MSM for you.
There is also REAL physics where various theories evolve around an observed fact. These are generally whittled away until only the one remains, it is at this point HIGHLY PROBABLE that this theory is sound.
The problem with established science is that they make an absolute, unbending law from a highly probable one.
Even when observed facts contradict the theory, they continue to support it.
What else can they do? Give up their comfy jobs, fat salaries, research budgets, go home & say 'sorry, we were wrong after all'. Would they f*#%.
Newton's laws of motion did pretty well until 1890 when there were doubts, and in 1930, along came Albert with his new theory, & everything is fine again, until 1980 when things seemed to go a bit pear-shaped again.
Gravity, the universe & everything, is not what we thought it was.
Isn't that what this thread is about?
The explanations given in the films are MOSTLY accurate, & will serve the general public well, but the fringe scientists out there will be frowning, knowing that the picture is by no means complete.

reply to post by CrashUnderride


Personally, i think someone farted into a time machine & we created all of it ourselves, by accident.

Originally posted by Version100

Originally posted by wkworthington3

Modern physics is a patchwork of cobbled together ad hoc theories that are constantly being fudged in order to explain the next unexplainable unpredicted phenomenon.

/agree 100%

Far too many fudge factors are present.

Making up all sorts of untestable nonsense such as dark matter and dark
energy to make the model work is religion.

Big Bang Theory = everything exploded out of one unexplainable condensed
point in space where the absolute rules of our physical universe didn't apply.

"Let there be light", sound familiar ?

The aether theory was discounted on the strength of one experiment but
there have been many, many, experiments attempting to prove that
non baryonic matter exists, none of which have been successful.

Yet, in spite of many, many, failed experiments we are still told that this
invisible titanic sea of non bayronic matter surrounds us because it makes
an invalid model work...

The same is true for particle physics, there are no detectable electro
strong/weak forces so they might just as well say there are two tiny gods
inside of each atom.

Here's the thing...the theories work. This is why the are accepted as being the 'most-true' of what we know and have discovered. They are what help us plot the solar system with high levels of accuracy to the point where they can hit the proverbial dime at 2.5 AU (that's 2 and a half times the Earth's distance to the sun) - The spacecraft Dawn is currently approaching Vesta in the asteroid belt even as I type this. Imagine shooting a craft off at that distance, not only nailing the target, but easing it into orbit on an object so small.

What they noticed, however, is the velocities of stars on the outer rims of galaxies were much faster than the mass of the visible matter of the galaxy suggested should be possible for them to stay gravitationally bound to the galaxy. However, this was not the only thing, they also noticed that the gravitational lensing effect (which is a well known and used whenever possible) also showed a higher effect from these galaxies than the visible matter should exhibit. The thing is, the amounts added up and both indicated a certain amount of matter that we simply could not otherwise detect. Any of the failed experiments you might be referencing would have been tests to see if it matched what a theory thought it might be. Just because they failed to find out what it is, doesn't mean they disproved its overall existence.

Another realm of thought on the DM issue is that perhaps it's similar to the issue with quantum effects. In that, when speaking of the scale of the very small (quantum), that they needed a slightly different sort of math to calculate it, that the same might exist with the galactic (very large) level. This would mean that on the orders of the very small and the very large, we need slightly adjusted mathematics in order to accurately represent them. Theories such as this are far more acceptable than the fringe side who would like to completely throw out theories that have and do still work just because they might have found an area where the rules aren't quite the same. We're only just starting to really find out how things work out there and it's understandable to find a few things that have to be looked at differently than others.

Is it possible for GR and the like to be completely wrong? Unlikely due to the limitless applications for it today where it's perfectly correct and has been proven over and over again to be completely accurate. It's more-probable that they are just incomplete due to our own limited knowledge...hence the 'fudging' you so deride.

Really makes me wonder, however, regarding all the misinformation I see around here on this site...people thinking HAARP is causing earthquakes just because some guy can make a little rock slide down a little slope with any decent type of vibration regardless of the frequency...NASA's sound suppression system for its rocket testing facilities is some evil cloudmaking device of unknown purpose...science is a religion...evolution is a religion...scientists are 'in it for the money'...etc...

I mean, the chances of even finding a decent article to discuss gets rather painful with the blatant disinformation service going on. If I'm wrong about something, then I'm wrong...but usually I don't make posts unless the probability of me being wrong is extremely low. Like my 2nd paragraph here - I may have made a mistake in my explanation, (aside from those of you who for whatever misguided reason will vehemently swear that GR and the like simply aren't true) and I will admit my mistake. I'm also willing to learn. However I consistently see obvious disinformation nuts who will go on and on about how 'right' they are, no matter how completely wrong they've been proven.

Saying that it's wrong for science to have theories that they have to make adjustments for as they learn more about the universe is ridiculous. You may not like them having to 'fudge' the numbers, but that's the way science goes. You cannot have theories and math for the unknown and unpredictable otherwise they are, by definition, no longer unknown or unpredictable. That's like me trying to tell you the color of your cat when I don't even know if you have a pet to begin with.

There are times where new discoveries line up with predictions, and that's fine...but most of those type of discoveries came about because the existing math gave birth to the prediction that they'd be there (Uranus for example)

PARADISE is the eternal center of the universe of universes and the abiding place of the Universal Father, the Eternal Son, the Infinite Spirit, and their divine co-ordinates and associates. This central Isle is the most gigantic organized body of cosmic reality in all the master universe. Paradise is a material sphere as well as a spiritual abode. All of the intelligent creation of the Universal Father is domiciled on material abodes; hence must the absolute controlling center also be material, literal. And again it should be reiterated that spirit things and spiritual beings are real.

In form Paradise differs from the inhabited space bodies: it is not spherical. It is definitely ellipsoid, being one-sixth longer in the north-south diameter than in the east-west diameter. The central Isle is essentially flat, and the distance from the upper surface to the nether surface is one tenth that of the east-west diameter.

These differences in dimensions, taken in connection with its stationary status and the greater out-pressure of force-energy at the north end of the Isle, make it possible to establish absolute direction in the master universe.

The central Isle is geographically divided into three domains of activity:

1. Upper Paradise.
2. Peripheral Paradise.
3. Nether Paradise.

It appears to us that the First Source and Center has concentrated all absolute potential for cosmic reality in Paradise as a part of his technique of self-liberation from infinity limitations, as a means of making possible subinfinite, even time-space, creation. But it does not follow that Paradise is time-space limited just because the universe of universes discloses these qualities. Paradise exists without time and has no location in space.

Roughly: space seemingly originates just below nether Paradise; time just above upper Paradise. Time, as you understand it, is not a feature of Paradise existence, though the citizens of the central Isle are fully conscious of nontime sequence of events. Motion is not inherent on Paradise; it is volitional. But the concept of distance, even absolute distance, has very much meaning as it may be applied to relative locations on Paradise. Paradise is nonspatial; hence its areas are absolute and therefore serviceable in many ways beyond the concept of mortal mind.

We do not know the actual mechanism of space respiration; we merely observe that all space alternately contracts and expands. This respiration affects both the horizontal extension of pervaded space and the vertical extensions of unpervaded space which exist in the vast space reservoirs above and below Paradise. In attempting to imagine the volume outlines of these space reservoirs, you might think of an hourglass.

As the universes of the horizontal extension of pervaded space expand, the reservoirs of the vertical extension of unpervaded space contract and vice versa. There is a confluence of pervaded and unpervaded space just underneath nether Paradise. Both types of space there flow through the transmuting regulation channels, where changes are wrought making pervadable space nonpervadable and vice versa in the contraction and expansion cycles of the cosmos.

“Unpervaded” space means: unpervaded by those forces, energies, powers, and presences known to exist in pervaded space. We do not know whether vertical (reservoir) space is destined always to function as the equipoise of horizontal (universe) space; we do not know whether there is a creative intent concerning unpervaded space; we really know very little about the space reservoirs, merely that they exist, and that they seem to counterbalance the space-expansion-contraction cycles of the universe of universes.

The cycles of space respiration extend in each phase for a little more than one billion years. During one phase the universes expand; during the next they contract. Pervaded space is now approaching the mid-point of the expanding phase, while unpervaded space nears the mid-point of the contracting phase, and we are informed that the outermost limits of both space extensions are, theoretically, now approximately equidistant from Paradise. The unpervaded-space reservoirs now extend vertically above upper Paradise and below nether Paradise just as far as the pervaded space of the universe extends horizontally outward from peripheral Paradise to and even beyond the fourth outer space level.

Space does not exist on any of the surfaces of Paradise. If one “looked” directly up from the upper surface of Paradise, one would “see” nothing but unpervaded space going out or coming in, just now coming in. Space does not touch Paradise; only the quiescent midspace zones come in contact with the central Isle.

Paradise is the actually motionless nucleus of the relatively quiescent zones existing between pervaded and unpervaded space. Geographically these zones appear to be a relative extension of Paradise, but there probably is some motion in them. We know very little about them, but we observe that these zones of lessened space motion separate pervaded and unpervaded space. Similar zones once existed between the levels of pervaded space, but these are now less quiescent.

The vertical cross section of total space would slightly resemble a Maltese cross, with the horizontal arms representing pervaded (universe) space and the vertical arms representing unpervaded (reservoir) space. The areas between the four arms would separate them somewhat as the midspace zones separate pervaded and unpervaded space. These quiescent midspace zones grow larger and larger at greater and greater distances from Paradise and eventually encompass the borders of all space and completely incapsulate both the space reservoirs and the entire horizontal extension of pervaded space.

reply to post by jhonnyjj


What's so funny about it

Although the monopoles which I mentioned in my thread haven't been detected yet, we've been able to make our own monopoles:

www.newscientist.com...

If imbued with a quantum-mechanical property known as spin, individual atoms act as tiny bar magnets with north and south poles. Get the atoms' polar axes to align, and the material itself becomes magnetic.

Now here's the trick. At very low temperatures, a class of exotic materials known as spin ices exist in a "frustrated" magnetic state. Their atoms would dearly love to align magnetically, but they are corralled into a tight crystal structure that stops them from doing so - unless, that is, you raise the temperature just a little. That enables a single atom to flip its poles into the right alignment, setting off a domino effect of further flips that can pass through the solid crystal (see YouTube video at (link tracking not allowed)/j7hcYs). "In all practical senses, that amounts to a freely propagating magnetic charge," says Steve Bramwell of University College London.