Should birth control be covered by universal health care?

Originally posted by solargeddon
OMG ! You actually pay for birth control !

Thats riddiculous, here in the UK Birth control is free for every woman, whether it be the pill, coil, or even stocking up on condoms.

I nominate your post for ignorance of the week award. No, in the UK, birth control for every woman is EXPENSIVE because its covered by the government, which if I'm not mistaken, there are a lot of women in the UK giving their own money to the government by method of extortion. Wow you are so wrong!

Originally posted by User8911
Bla bla bla, ok so some are intelligent, think ahead and some are selfish idiots that I could resume what they say with : IT'S MY MONEY

I also bet those against sharing are the richest ones.

You capitalism fools disgust me with your brain washed ideology that it's your freedom, you have been manipulated by people way richer then you and this is how they keep the chains on your intellectual freedom.

Wake up! Can't you see this is what is keeping humanity from evolving beyond war, poverty and injustice?

Edit : I am sorry about using those kind of words, I'm just a bit pissed atm

edit on 10-5-2011 by User8911 because: (no reason given)

Actually not, I am old and certainly not rich, but by any of the numbers better off that 90% of my fellow citizens.

I look at the taxes I pay and the things that government does and I really feel that I am getting an awful lot for my money - I could afford to be taxed more and I am not jealous that a lot of the money I pay goes to help people who are not as lucky as me - It is after all luck -- I believe the christians say - there for the grace of god go I.

This whole I got mine attitude is not the America I grew up in. I was taught you get a good hold and then you reach down and help someone else. I'm one of those amoral atheists but the concept of helping others just makes us all stronger, and seems to be the right thing to do.

Yes it does benefit us all to be able to give people the choice of having children - to feel otherwise is petty shortsighted and just plain stupid.

Of course it should be covered.

Nice that the misogynists rolled out on page one.

People still seem to be glossing over the whole "regulates the menstrual cycle" thing and focusing 100% on pregnancy prevention. I was forced to start taking birth control very shortly after hitting puberty because of the fact that my period isn't just a once a month thing. No I would have it for months STRAIGHT, NON-STOP. Now for the ignorant men out there that don't have to deal with something like this they are likely to say "Oh, please, cry me a river it's not that bad." Well until you have to deal with losing copious amounts of blood to the point of it depleting the vitamins and minerals in your body beyond what OTC multivitamins and other pills can put back into your system, then shut it.

I had no choice but to go on birth control and stay on it, and no, I can't even be on the cheap generic pills, or any pills at all for that matter, either because they began causing blood-clots in my legs that got so bad I was unable to walk for a time. But if I don't take birth control I bleed so much, so often that my body just begins to fail. Even with health insurance I still had to find an OB\GYN that was nice enough to learn about my situation and sneak me enough of the expensive birth control "samples" that don't give me blood clots just so I can keep from ending up in the hospital on a regular basis like I used to. This has zero to do with sex and pregnancy for a lot of young girls and women, and a lot to do with maintaining a healthy body.

And believe me, if this ridiculously religiously run country didn't put a ban on nearly all women under the age of menopause(or suffering from a horrible disease of the female anatomy) from getting their tubes tied or a hysterectomy, I would have just had them cut it all out of me and be done with it. No bleeding to death from uncontrollable periods, no worries of children if I do choose to have sex, no more insanely expensive birth control that I can't even afford no matter how much I cut back on my every day needs. But no, I was told by every doctor I spoke to, and every website I went to that I'm just not smart enough to choose to remove a damaged part of my own body unless it is close to killing me and a "genius" government controlled doctor gives me the ok. Even my OB\GYN has told me that if she weren't under the restrictions of the hospital she works in, she'd do exactly what I've asked so I would no longer have to suffer, but they won't approve it unless I manage to get "un-treatable" cancer.

So yes, I believe it should be covered, because I suffered for years getting sicker, ending up in the hopital, all because I couldn't afford birth control all the time at the insane prices our government puts on it.

reply to post by aleria


I'm on the opposite spectrum altogether, don't get them at all, and wouldn't were it not for the pill.

Originally posted by User8911
Bla bla bla, ok so some are intelligent, think ahead and some are selfish idiots that I could resume what they say with : IT'S MY MONEY

I also bet those against sharing are the richest ones.

You capitalism fools disgust me with your brain washed ideology that it's your freedom, you have been manipulated by people way richer then you and this is how they keep the chains on your intellectual freedom.

Wake up! Can't you see this is what is keeping humanity from evolving beyond war, poverty and injustice?

Edit : I am sorry about using those kind of words, I'm just a bit pissed atm

edit on 10-5-2011 by User8911 because: (no reason given)

Um, yes... it is my money. I'm not rich by any stretch of the imagination, in fact I do good to get by every month, but what little I do have is MINE. Do you honestly believe that if Capitalism went away entirely that there would be no more poverty? You are clearly insane. If that were true then everyone in China, Venezuela, (insert communist country here), would be rich or at least financially secure, but no... those people work for 50 cents a day and live in fear for their life from their tyrannical statist masters. I could care less about the entirety of humanity evolving. It is arrogant and foolish to think that you can control any aspect of humanity's evolution. You want to see true slavery? You want to see chains? get rid of capitalism, individual freedom, individual sovereignty, and individual liberty and see where that gets you.

All of these "capitalism is evil" people crack me up. They are pathetic wastes of existence. They sit there and blame an economic system for their troubles, or the troubles of others, when in fact they should be looking in the mirror to see who's fault it is that you haven't amounted to squat. What's wrong... can't get your slice of the pie? Is that why you're so bitter? Maybe if the vast majority of these people would have applied themselves and actually worked for the opportunity that was given to them by virtue of being born in the freest nation in the history of the world they would have a different opinion. Instead of sitting around bitching about rich people you should get out there and make your own way, instead of waiting around with your hand out. Jealousy's a bitch, isn't it. That's all it is, Jealousy and envy.

All men are CREATED equal.... what you do with your opportunity after that is on you and you alone. Stop blaming those people that actually did take advantage of their opportunity and are successful because of it.

Originally posted by civilchallenger

Originally posted by solargeddon
OMG ! You actually pay for birth control !

Thats riddiculous, here in the UK Birth control is free for every woman, whether it be the pill, coil, or even stocking up on condoms.

I nominate your post for ignorance of the week award. No, in the UK, birth control for every woman is EXPENSIVE because its covered by the government, which if I'm not mistaken, there are a lot of women in the UK giving their own money to the government by method of extortion. Wow you are so wrong!

Erm, actually I am not ignorant as you put it, because regardless of income, be a millionaire or on welfare it is FREE, your just splitting hairs by putting it under the taxation bracket !

But if you really want to go there, money is not extorted as you so eloquently choose to put it, tax payers support the NHS through paying tax, which in turn enables and man, woman, or child to walk into any hospital, or doctors surgery (obviously not the private ones), and be treated without costing a penny! In the UK we do not need to have medical insurance, so if you need a complicated op, or just a consultation it doesn't cost you any more than what you ordinarily pay out in tax.

The only additional expense is for perscriptions, but woman can get a prescription for contraception for free, as in they don't pay a prescription charge like they would do for say an antibiotic on top of the tax they pay.

I hope this clears it up for you.

Next time you wish to infer ignorance, stop! It makes you look bad

Originally posted by HarmonicNights

Originally posted by solargeddon

I am truley shocked that it is not free in the US, how on earth is this empowering women ?!

Giving handouts to women as if they are helpless children who can't control themselves or pay for their own birth control....how on earth is THAT "empowering" (idiotic term to describe birth control) to women?

edit on 5/10/2011 by HarmonicNights because: (no reason given)

And how many men are currently paying for the male equivilant in contraception, freeing women up from this cost ????

Mmmm yeah not many I can tell you, the woman is empowered, because they have some control over whether or they have a baby, its a freedom thing, imagine spending every month worrying if you may have conceived, whilst holding down a career, from which a maternity break could spell the end of said career (yes employers really aren't that caring). The pill allows women to put aside such fears.

reply to post by aero56


You're only adding to my point. Parents don't raise their children to behave like responsible adults, instead kids are taught that they are just helpless primitive animals. I just graduated high school last year and there were many girls who were on birth control that still managed to get pregnant. I have a cousin who is pregnant (unintentionally) and she gets free birth control. Naively believing that birth control is 100% effective is a big mistake and only leads to more teenage pregnancies.

Originally posted by solargeddon

I can tell you, the woman is empowered, because they have some control over whether or they have a baby, its a freedom thing, imagine spending every month worrying if you may have conceived, whilst holding down a career, from which a maternity break could spell the end of said career (yes employers really aren't that caring). The pill allows women to put aside such fears.

So without the existence of the birth control pill, women have no control over their reproduction? It has nothing to do with freedom. Birth control is not a right, it's a privilege. Your children should always come before your career. It's being forced to work that gets in the way of bearing and raising your children, not the other way around.

Originally posted by HarmonicNights

Originally posted by solargeddon

I can tell you, the woman is empowered, because they have some control over whether or they have a baby, its a freedom thing, imagine spending every month worrying if you may have conceived, whilst holding down a career, from which a maternity break could spell the end of said career (yes employers really aren't that caring). The pill allows women to put aside such fears.

So without the existence of the birth control pill, women have no control over their reproduction? It has nothing to do with freedom. Birth control is not a right, it's a privilege. Your children should always come before your career. It's being forced to work that gets in the way of bearing and raising your children, not the other way around.

And I think I noted above you are not long out of high school, you have much to learn.

Explain to me exactly, graphically even, how a woman has control over her reproductive system without birth control ?

Rhthym method ? Fail, I have an 8 year old

Withdrawal ? Fail, I have a 4 year old.

Abstension ? Yeah right because that is going to happen, get real two people in love just got married, don't want kids yet, you expect them never to consumate the marriage ?

I personally have never used contraception, but I will DEFEND the RIGHT of any woman, to make their own choices, especially with the backdrop of apparent masoginism on display in this thread (you know who you are!)

Birth control a privilege ? You tell that to the child born of a mother who only had said child, because they had no access to the luxury of birth control!

Remember, an unwanted pregnancy affects the child too. How many times have you read, or heard of children being neglected, and abused.

Furthermore, while your at it, you can also explain to the woman who is raped, and subsequently falls pregnant, how birth control is not for her, because its a privilege.

Stop talking tosh .

Originally posted by solargeddon

And I think I noted above you are not long out of high school, you have much to learn.

Playing the age card when you don't have anything of intelligence to say...how did I know that was coming?

Explain to me exactly, graphically even, how a woman has control over her reproductive system without birth control ?

Are you serious? You're telling me you can't control your body without birth control? No, abstaining has never been common, but women in the past knew that whenever they had sex, pregnancy could occur. They didn't play the victim of their reproductive system like so many modern women do. Yes, that means more children...but that does NOT make you a victim. Any woman who acts as if it does is just downright sorry and pathetic.

I personally have never used contraception, but I will DEFEND the RIGHT of any woman, to make their own choices

This thread is not questioning if women should have the choice of birth control. The issue is tax-payer subsidized birth control, which I'm against.

Birth control a privilege ? You tell that to the child born of a mother who only had said child, because they had no access to the luxury of birth control!

Are you serious? I can't even believe you really just said that. The point is birth control is a privilege NOT a right. You're the one making birth control out to be a "luxury". A woman who knows she has no access to birth control and gets herself pregnant is not by any means a victim and has no reason to be surprised when an "unwanted" pregnancy occurs. A grown woman is not a child incapable of understanding the consequences of her actions.

Remember, an unwanted pregnancy affects the child too. How many times have you read, or heard of children being neglected, and abused.

The mere concept of an "unwanted" child is asinine. Clearly, when a child is conceived, the parents obviously didn't oppose the idea of having a child enough in order to take the risk of said child being conceived in the first place. Birth control is not 100% effective and this point should be stressed more. Preaching that birth control is a right and handing out free birth control will only lead to more irresponsible behavior and child abuse. You send the message that any child created is a burden and no woman is obligated to take care of them. You don't' want children? Get yourself sterilized. Tax-payer subsidized sterilization is something I could bring myself to support.

Furthermore, while your at it, you can also explain to the woman who is raped, and subsequently falls pregnant, how birth control is not for her, because its a privilege.

I'm assuming your talking about abortion as birth control? Rape rarely ends in pregnancy and most abortions are done for frivolous reasons.

reply to post by HarmonicNights


Ok your first point, you are referring exactly to what I pointed out the rhythm method, which basically involves abstaining whilst in you "unsafe" part of your menstrual cycle. It doesn't work, why ? Because it is far more comon to have irregular periods, than it is to have a regular 28 day cycle.

Secondly, YOU brought the concept of "luxury" into the equation, when YOU chose to call birth control a "priviliege". Privilege lends itself to luxury, a privileged lifestyle tends to be luxurious (far too late here in the UK can no longer spell properly!).

I never mentioned abortion, you did. and one chld conceived through the act of rape s one child too many in my opinion, just imagine if that one woman happend to be someone you cared about.

Lastly, you don't think contraception should be available to women without them paying for it, yet you also believe, women should be saty at home mums, who put their children first, however in case you didn't notice your country is going to the dogs, and without more mums going out to work, its going to buckle, not a point I agree with let me tell you, but even here in England they encourage both parents to work, to support the ailing economy. Now if more women have children and put their chldren first, i.e not working, how do expect your economy to survive ? Birth control does not just delay motherhood for those who choose to, it also keeps those future mums working to support the fragile economic infrstructure, if one month they are a little short on cash despite working,to afford their birth control and get pregnant, its not just a hit for the woman, although I'm sure there will be a lot of love for the child, but its a hit for the economy, one more person taken out of the loop who might otherwise have waited a little longer to have had children, namely when the economy was more stable, so that they could give that child more.

But your "alright Jack", because its not costing you, well it will if women who fall pregnant are taken out of the loop, and are not contributing to stregnthening the economy by paying taxes, and are sat on welfare, especailly, if the baby is an accident, and born out of a one night stand (they do happen you know, it only takes the once).

One last point whilst money means so much to you, how would you feel if you girlfriend turned to you, and said "Right, I need to go buy my pill, but I'm a little short on cash, can you support me by stumping up for it this month ?"

What are you going to say then ? What would you say if she expected you to make a regular contribution to the contraception, which benefits you equally, because you won't become a "Daddy" any time before your both ready ?

I'm sorry your argument is flawed, the 60's happend, the revolution occurred, and men are every bit as responsible for preventing pregnancy as women.

Originally posted by HarmonicNights

Originally posted by solargeddon

And I think I noted above you are not long out of high school, you have much to learn.

Playing the age card when you don't have anything of intelligence to say...how did I know that was coming?

]




With everything you wrote that followed below that statement, you showed your inexperience, and lack of empathy to life, and social issues, intelligence has nothing to do with it, maturity does.

I used to be a teenager once, you really do think you have the answers, but believe me no-one has the answers, but there are answers that are deemed socially more acceptable than others, and again you learn more through the passage of experience and time.

Try to be a little more forward thinking, and see it from more than one angle, that is indulge another angle, rather than find a way to defend your angle, you'll learn more that way

edit on 10-5-2011 by solargeddon because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by solargeddon
reply to post by HarmonicNights

 

Ok your first point, you are referring exactly to what I pointed out the rhythm method, which basically involves abstaining whilst in you "unsafe" part of your menstrual cycle. It doesn't work, why ? Because it is far more comon to have irregular periods, than it is to have a regular 28 day cycle.

No, I wasn't referring to the rhythm method. I was referring to abstinence, at least until one is in a secure position to have children.

Secondly, YOU brought the concept of "luxury" into the equation, when YOU chose to call birth control a "priviliege". Privilege lends itself to luxury, a privileged lifestyle tends to be luxurious (far too late here in the UK can no longer spell properly!).

Birth control most certainly is a privilege of our modern technologically-advanced society. You should not feel entitled to any privilege, especially if you demand others pay for it. You think society owes you something simply because you are a woman.

I never mentioned abortion, you did. and one chld conceived through the act of rape s one child too many in my opinion, just imagine if that one woman happend to be someone you cared about.

You said something to the effect of "tell a woman who has been raped that birth control is a privilege". What else could that possibly be referring to besides abortion? You're placing the blame of rape on the child? When a woman is raped, the only "problem" you are concerned about is the child conceived? I know a girl who has been raped who doesn't believe in abortion under any circumstance. I can tell you one thing...if I was raped and impregnated, I would without a doubt want the rapist dead. But no, people like yourself would most likely fight for the right to life for the rapist but suggest killing the child.

in case you didn't notice your country is going to the dogs

As if yours isn't? A significant reason Western civilization in general has gone down the tubes is because of the destruction of the family and lack of upbringing due to both parents working and the constant need to indulge in unecessary luxuries.

Birth control does not just delay motherhood for those who choose to, it also keeps those future mums working to support the fragile economic infrstructure, if one month they are a little short on cash despite working,to afford their birth control and get pregnant, its not just a hit for the woman

It's funny how you criticize me for my lack of maturity, yet you have absolutely NO sense of personal responsibility. The workforce should have never been doubled in the first place. It shouldn't have to take two incomes per family just to make ends meet.

But your "alright Jack", because its not costing you, well it will if women who fall pregnant are taken out of the loop, and are not contributing to stregnthening the economy by paying taxes, and are sat on welfare, especailly, if the baby is an accident, and born out of a one night stand (they do happen you know, it only takes the once).

I refuse to pay for anyone else's birth control simply because they can't be mature enough to handle their own sexual behavior in a responsible manner. It's obvious you were raised with a sense of entitlement and without any expectation of responsibility for your own choices. Handing out birth control that's not even 100% effective will not solve anything except steal from people's pockets. That reminds me of the high school who gave out free condems and the pregnancy rate increased 40% in one school year. Go figure.

One last point whilst money means so much to you, how would you feel if you girlfriend turned to you, and said "Right, I need to go buy my pill, but I'm a little short on cash, can you support me by stumping up for it this month ?" What are you going to say then ? What would you say if she expected you to make a regular contribution to the contraception, which benefits you equally, because you won't become a "Daddy" any time before your both ready ?

I'm a FEMALE...a straight one at that. I find it very insulting how you speak about females. You act as if we're helpless children who have no understanding of the consequences of our actions. I get so sick of hearing this rhetoric from feminists.

I'm sorry your argument is flawed, the 60's happend, the revolution occurred, and men are every bit as responsible for preventing pregnancy as women.

Feminists use the laughable "my body, my choice" line whenever debating so called "reproductive rights", but being the hypocrites they are, they then turn around and claim that pregnancy is not only in their hands, and demand "equality" when it comes to preventing pregnancy. If the pregnancy is simply one with your body, why shouldn't it be you that takes on the responsibility for your own body?

Originally posted by solargeddon

With everything you wrote that followed below that statement, you showed your inexperience, and lack of empathy to life, and social issues, intelligence has nothing to do with it, maturity does.

With everything you've written, you've shown a complete lack of understanding of the concept of personal responsibility, your belittling view of women, and your approval of thievery and irresponsibility. I am not empathetic to ADULTS (not helpless children) who make choices while 100% aware of the consequences who end up reaping what they sew. These adults are not victims by any means.

but there are answers that are deemed socially more acceptable than others

Your answers would be the politically correct answers.

Try to be a little more forward thinking, and see it from more than one angle, that is indulge another angle, rather than find a way to defend your angle, you'll learn more that way

It's you who needs to grow up and realize that personal responsibility is a huge part of being an adult. Get rid of that sense of entitlement of yours and learn that it's not anyone's obligation to pay for anyone else's sex life. The government stealing from people's pockets is an angle that doesn't need being viewed twice in order to see how absurd it is. I will never view the world from the helpless, irresponsible, and entitled perspective you view it from.

Birth control should be covered or free.

I for one don't want to pay for the brats or there jail time as they grow older.

Been paying for to many illegals

reply to post by sonofliberty1776


It's way cheaper for the tax payer to pay for birth control than it is to pay to bring up the unwanted offspring. Human beings are not going to stop doing it in the front hole, That's essentially what we are here for, to procreate. It's how you got here funnily enough.

Look at countries like Malaysia, where birth control is strictly frowned upon by the Catholic priests. You end up with massive poverty and over population problems.

Surely it would be wiser to make birth control medication as widely available as possible. Just think of all those tax dollars saved by unwanted pregnancies, huge families claiming benefits, demands for public schooling and housing.

reply to post by HarmonicNights


Wow you are on angry little lady.

Step to me when you have another 15 years life experience under your belt, and then tell me you feel the same way.

I just think its a shame you cannot try to view the issue from a different perspective to your own, without belittlement.

You only serve to look more childlike the more you type, and for this reason, this will be last post I address to you, as I do not have time to babysit you through the finer points of personal and social responsibility.

If you think I sound condescending, it will be beacuse at this point, repsect for different points of view has become a game of big girl, little girl.

I already have two kids, they are my responsibilty, I just hope that as you develop and grow humility will do so to

Peace

Originally posted by solargeddon

Step to me when you have another 15 years life experience under your belt, and then tell me you feel the same way.

You honestly think I would go from believing in personal responsibility to reverting back to the childish entitled view of the world? I actually would have agreed with your points about 4 years ago.

this will be last post I address to you, as I do not have time to babysit you through the finer points of personal and social responsibility.

If you think I sound condescending, it will be beacuse at this point, repsect for different points of view has become a game of big girl, little girl.

I don't respect the idea of the government stealing from people and adults being given out handouts as if they aren't mature enough to have control over their own sex lives.