UFO's are not new

Well if you look threw out history we see them in paintings. Their are some reports threw out history of just siting them and there are some reports of them living with us. I believe they are living with us, your closest friend cloud be a alien. If you look in the deepest depths of recorded history you will find them. Its all most as if they have all ways been with us. Image this a alien race that has a life span of 100's or even 1000's of years (possibly immortality if they have the right technology, this not far fetched, we have hieroglyphs in Egypt witch show the Egyptians playing with DNA, we have mummy's witch DNA is preserved, maybe its some kind of cloning technology, if you google you will find that we have clones a mummy.) This could be a experiment, if this race has the capability to travel in space then they might be using us as a science experiment. The same way that we do with mice and another animals witch we consider less superior. Who knows, they could have created this planet. Who knows the flying saucers and alien beings witch people report all the time could be a races of intelligent beings with have all ways lived hear and "evolved" faster then us hiding in the shadows to have a edge over us. Who knows, when the day does come I would not except their story of who they are and why they are hear to be true. So we may never know.

Originally posted by sabbathcrazy
Well if you look threw out history we see them in paintings. Their are some reports threw out history of just siting them and there are some reports of them living with us. I believe they are living with us, your closest friend cloud be a alien. If you look in the deepest depths of recorded history you will find them. Its all most as if they have all ways been with us. Image this a alien race that has a life span of 100's or even 1000's of years (possibly immortality if they have the right technology, this not far fetched, we have hieroglyphs in Egypt witch show the Egyptians playing with DNA,

[citation needed]
I looked for evidence of this, and all I can find are weird articles or Youtube videos from nutty people who have channels and blogs full of wrong predictions, failure to answer straightforward questions, and a complete disregard for the scientific method. No corroborating evidence for hieroglyphs depicting actual DNA manipulation. Moving on...

we have mummy's witch DNA is preserved, maybe its some kind of cloning technology, if you google you will find that we have clones a mummy.) This could be a experiment, if this race has the capability to travel in space then they might be using us as a science experiment. The same way that we do with mice and another animals witch we consider less superior.

Conjecture and wild speculation. I realize that's your point, but it's hard to have an intelligent conversation with someone who brings nothing to the table except a tome full of "what if" and "who knows." Right now all the real evidence supports the time-honored scientific tradition of following Occam's Razor: basically, the simplest sensible answer to a question is more likely to be true or closer to the truth than one that involves unnecessary complexity. Sure, aliens could be using us as lab rats, but the evidence also allows for the explanation that life evolves on its own. We have a fossil record and a study of genetics that backs up the simpler answer: there's no need to involve aliens.

Who knows, they could have created this planet. Who knows the flying saucers and alien beings witch people report all the time could be a races of intelligent beings with have all ways lived hear and "evolved" faster then us hiding in the shadows to have a edge over us. Who knows, when the day does come I would not except their story of who they are and why they are hear to be true. So we may never know.

Exactly -- who knows. Anybody can make far-out guesses and postulate explanations for simple phenomena that needlessly involve untold levels of gratuitous complexity. Unfortunately that stops intelligent discussion in its tracks, because the Human capacity for imagination will always outstrip our actual scientific discovery.

reply to post by vexati0n


Well, natural evolution appears to be the most valid theory on life, however, the rise of homo-sapian's is a different matter (or arguably even homo-erectus...actually, most of the primates rapid progression to where we are today).
I wouldn't be shocked to find out that someone came across a animal abundant planet and started tweaking a strain to create...something, be it sentient beings, or slaves, etc...fusing dna and whatnot.

I think its a worthy discussion to have, there is evidence to back up the claims (evidence does not = truth however, else our science books would reflect that)..

I think (fully unsubstantiated belief system type think) that indeed something did stop by and manipulate an animal that eventually is who we are today. I base this belief on the fusion of chromosomes, rapid advancement, cooborating accounts in ancient texts (Book of Enoch), etc.
There is significant evidence of the claim throughout the world all stating a similar story of basically sky dudes coming here, creating offspring halfbreeds.

reply to post by SaturnFX


Homo Sapiens has a fossil and genetic record. There are no anomalous genes in our DNA that can't be (quite easily) explained by simple mutation and evolution. Our DNA is 98% similar to chimps; evidence of our migratory history provides adequate explanation for differences in race; and our civilizations descend from a primary one in the area of Iraq. Myths of floods and gods are common - there are numerous explanations, the simplest of which do not include extraterrestrials.

My point here is not to simply say "aliens can't exist because I don't own one as a pet," or something ridiculous like that. I'm just saying I refuse to believe, or even consider the direct involvement in our history (much less in our genome) by extraterrestrials, until something is discovered that makes that explanation considerably simpler than the explanations we have so far.

I am a skeptic, but my threshold for belief is lower than most other skeptics'. I don't ask for direct, positive proof of aliens - only for a scenario to exist or for perplexing evidence to be discovered, for which aliens are the most likely explanation.

Originally posted by vexati0n
reply to post by SaturnFX

 

Homo Sapiens has a fossil and genetic record. There are no anomalous genes in our DNA that can't be (quite easily) explained by simple mutation and evolution. Our DNA is 98% similar to chimps; evidence of our migratory history provides adequate explanation for differences in race; and our civilizations descend from a primary one in the area of Iraq. Myths of floods and gods are common - there are numerous explanations, the simplest of which do not include extraterrestrials.

My point here is not to simply say "aliens can't exist because I don't own one as a pet," or something ridiculous like that. I'm just saying I refuse to believe, or even consider the direct involvement in our history (much less in our genome) by extraterrestrials, until something is discovered that makes that explanation considerably simpler than the explanations we have so far.

I am a skeptic, but my threshold for belief is lower than most other skeptics'. I don't ask for direct, positive proof of aliens - only for a scenario to exist or for perplexing evidence to be discovered, for which aliens are the most likely explanation.

The Chromosome issue is what I was refering to specifically. the fusion of two into one is remarkable and unlike anything in nature to compare it to...its an improbability for it to naturally occur without manipulation , yet it did. That in itself is not proof, just a interesting anomoly

Then you got the stories around the world of gods and floods..thats common, sure, but what makes it unusual is just how similar it is across vast areas all at once. Pyramidal structures popping up in the same era by tribes and nations that had no contact with one another, etc.

Its enough to make it a mystery, and when you read the stories (all of them being the same except for some names and other trivial matters), they all say the same thing....sky dudes came here and messed with us, taught us how to grow into society, then buggered off.

To me, that leads me to jump to a conclusion (even though I went from hypothesis to conclusion..meh, I reserve the right to change my mind whenever I want).

To me, the most simple answer of how we went from nothing happening monkeymen to exploring space in a blink of an eye = outside interference...occams razor works both ways here.

The alien hypothesis to me sounds pretty solid..especially when one truely sits down and examines just the concept of alien civilizations to begin with and motive.

On the surface, your argument has some merits. And I don't want to shoot it down - but here are a couple of things that get in the way of my simply opting for Aliens as the simplest answer.

1. The Agricultural Revolution. For tens of thousands of years, humans who were (demonstrably) genetically identical to ourselves lived in nomadic tribes - the hunter/gatherers. All that time, our species was able to survive relatively successfully as barely-civilized packs of predators. But, eventually we discovered agriculture, which allowed us to live in permanent settlements, expand our population, and have the time and tools necessary to invent other things as well. Our technological advancement has always occured on a J-curve, in fact that is why a few years ago there was talk of a "technological singularity." Our advancements each allow for further advancements, and the time between advancements shrinks at an accelerating rate. So it's really no surprise that we spent a very long time doing practically nothing, but then civilization exploded with the Agricultural Revolution. It's a simpler, verifiable hypothesis with actual evidence, and it doesn't need the involvement of Aliens.

2. Pyramids. This is fairly simple one, too. Leaving out for now the methods with which these structures were built or the astronomical precision with which they were (or weren't) constructed, it's no real mystery why so many peoples in so many different places built pyramids. They are, after all, the only way to build very tall structures with limited materials and without advanced construction technology. A large structure built with stone blocks has to be a pyramid - anything else will collapse, and will be impossible to construct anyway, without advanced cranes or materials (steel, etc.) that just weren't available.

I'm not a geneticist so I can't speak to the chromosome fusion - I will have to look into that a little more and I thank you for bringing that up. My preliminary foray into some science journals and discussions on the matter seems to bring up a consensus among scientists who (in the process of refuting "Intelligent Design") don't find such fusions all that uncommon in the animal world in general, or any evidence at all of direct manipulation of our genome. Anyway I will keep reading.

In Britiain the huge explosion in population was the Neolithic age with its introduction of agriculture in around 4000 BC. Thats when Britains natural landscape change dramatically. Practically the whole of Britain (less so Scotland) change with deforestation.

Alot of people in Britiain don't realise how unatural our patchwork land is.

Originally posted by vexati0n
On the surface, your argument has some merits. And I don't want to shoot it down - but here are a couple of things that get in the way of my simply opting for Aliens as the simplest answer.

1. The Agricultural Revolution. For tens of thousands of years, humans who were (demonstrably) genetically identical to ourselves lived in nomadic tribes - the hunter/gatherers. All that time, our species was able to survive relatively successfully as barely-civilized packs of predators. But, eventually we discovered agriculture, which allowed us to live in permanent settlements, expand our population, and have the time and tools necessary to invent other things as well. Our technological advancement has always occured on a J-curve, in fact that is why a few years ago there was talk of a "technological singularity." Our advancements each allow for further advancements, and the time between advancements shrinks at an accelerating rate. So it's really no surprise that we spent a very long time doing practically nothing, but then civilization exploded with the Agricultural Revolution. It's a simpler, verifiable hypothesis with actual evidence, and it doesn't need the involvement of Aliens.

OK, so here is the issue then.
the current accepted understanding of our age (homosapian sapians) are about 200k years old. Now, for 190k years (give or take) we were nomads...basic toolmaking and such mostly used to enhance hunting.
Although the thought of us stumbling around following some herds for 190k years without noticing crops grow on rotation is pretty sad, it could be true..there is an argument to be made (maybe we are that crappy at observation to begin with).

The path of nomadic travel is also a well accepted norm in science. We came from southern africa..moved north over time, into europe, through asia, and landed in north america about 30k years ago..moved into southern america about 15k years ago (give or take). This is the normal understanding of human movement for the original nomads.

Well, we then hit a issue

I present to you, virginia steen mcintyre
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c58b4d12fa62.jpg[/atsimg]
Now, you may not know the name, She was once a very established and highly regarded archeologist whom was on a dig in mexico. The dig site was thought to be 20k years old...it was to be a career triumph for her to show man in mexico at 20k years old...granted, it only really adds an extra 5k years, but still big stuff in slow moving science.
She uncovered artifacts and did several radiometric and other testing to find out that in fact, these artifacts were 250k years old
Read more Here

Or if you want your mind blown in video format, check this out

The relevant bits starts at about 7:30 if you want to fast forward. The whole video is cool, but some bits are more interesting than others...and this seems to sum up the point I am about to make nicely anyhow..

We have no clue what our true origin is...we could be, as a race, millions of years old.
Suddenly the concept of not observing harvest cycles over even a million years seems so absurd that you simply reject it out of just using an ounce of reason...we may be thick, but we aren't that thick.

So...we have ??? amount of years, then suddenly -something- happens, and we understand (through sumerian culture mainly) the following all within no time flat:
Agriculture, written language, mathmatics, navigation, architecture, archiving, aquaducts, waste disposal, religion (based around sky gods teaching us this stuff), etc etc etc

I say sumerian culture because they arguably wrote it down first...however, there were other smaller tribal lands and such working on this stuff (ubaid's for instance) that merged into the sumerians.

Meanwhile, across the other side of the earth, same thing is going on...almost the same timeline

So...we have monkeymen wandering around for a million years (I am probably being conservative in regards to the truth), then suddenly worldwide, everyone becomes civilized over night.

Totally interference! I could go on about this (love antiquity human discussions) but its actually a little bit off topic, and frankly, the premise of this thread is pretty bad, so don't want to contribute too much to such a poorly written ops)

2. Pyramids. This is fairly simple one, too. Leaving out for now the methods with which these structures were built or the astronomical precision with which they were (or weren't) constructed, it's no real mystery why so many peoples in so many different places built pyramids. They are, after all, the only way to build very tall structures with limited materials and without advanced construction technology. A large structure built with stone blocks has to be a pyramid - anything else will collapse, and will be impossible to construct anyway, without advanced cranes or materials (steel, etc.) that just weren't available.

I think the timing should again be brought up here. There is also the argument that if this was true, all big structures would have been pyramids verses just specific types of buildings
there is no pyramid castles, pyramid royal homes, pyramid granarys...it was all religious centric ceremonial structures that were not to serve any real purpose beyond...?
the hypothesis of it being the most simple building falls flat at that point...and I won't go into the detail on just how bloody difficult it is to build em to begin with (the early ones)..and how in reality you need some pretty advanced stonework tools for any degree of success. Today a engineer would be hard pressed to duplicate the early pyramids in such precision.

I'm not a geneticist so I can't speak to the chromosome fusion - I will have to look into that a little more and I thank you for bringing that up. My preliminary foray into some science journals and discussions on the matter seems to bring up a consensus among scientists who (in the process of refuting "Intelligent Design") don't find such fusions all that uncommon in the animal world in general, or any evidence at all of direct manipulation of our genome. Anyway I will keep reading.

There was a thread active long ago...the fusion thing was discussed to death and the findings was that basically in no instance is this replicated in any other lifeform. There are plenty of theories dismissing it away, and its also considered that the fusion doesn't seem to do anything beyond just being weird..no benefits that are seen.
Well, in my opinion, that is enough...a designer always puts identification in his code.

Now, my full hypothesis/theory...evolution happened the way it happened...we did evolve from apes into a stupid man chasing cattle with spears
then the religious books worldwide took over and gives a decent account...some sky dudes came down, fiddled with our dna (angels slept with us, whatever you want to say about it), got a dead end species to start thinking a bit more, gave us the basics (perhaps they got bored of watching us over a half million/million years follow around deer) and left. Why? who knows..but that to me seems likely.

I think the fusion of our chromosomes is just a identification..it may serve some other purpose (higher thinking, creative solutions, etc), but to me, a simple signature seems approprate enough just from an engineering standpoint.

Originally posted by EnigmaAgent

Alot of people in Britiain don't realise how unatural our patchwork land is.

Heh, anyone whom has been in an airplane will look down over the UK and notice that its almost fully developed by man...patchwork is a good word to describe it.