Understanding the Appeal of Apocalyptic and other Doom’s Day Styled Predictions and Prophecies

reply to post by WhiteDevil013

All I know is that probably since the dawn of man, every generation has thought at one time that they were "it" and something awful was going to happen in their life times, ending the world as we know it.....

It is a survival mechanism and unfortunately something AWFUL all too often happens: TPTB have decided to shear the sheep again. War is a lose -lose for both countries unless they gain a heck of a lot of resources and land but it has always been a win for the Bankers:

A Thousand Years of WAR

Medieval European wars

1096 - 1291 Crusades
1337 - 1453 Hundred Years' War
1420 - 1436 Hussite Wars
1455 - 1485 Wars of the Roses
1454 - 1466 Thirteen Years' War. Between Poland and Teutonic Knights, which finally broke the power of the latter.

Pike and Shot

1568 - 1648 Eighty Years' War (war of Dutch independence)
1588 Defeat of the Spanish Armada
1618 - 1648 Thirty Years' War across Europe, ends with the Peace of Westphalia.
1639 - 1652 English Civil War
1648 - 1660 The Deluge/Northern War, A series of wars involving Poland, Sweden, Prussia, Russia and Transylvania and Denmark
1652 - 1654 First Anglo-Dutch War
1664 - 1667 Second Anglo-Dutch War including the capture of New Amsterdam, renamed New York City
1672 - 1674 Third Anglo-Dutch War
1672 - 1678 Franco-Dutch War
1680 - 1684 Fourth Anglo-Dutch War
1689 - 1698 War of the Grand Alliance
1700 - 1721 Great Northern War between a coalition of Denmark/Norway, Russia and Saxony/Poland on one side and Sweden on the other side
1710 - 1711 Russo-Turkish War, 1710-11, a part of the Great Northern War
1702 - 1713 Queen Anne's War The North American part of the War of Spanish Succession
1701 - 1714 War of Spanish Succession
1736 - 1739 Russo-Turkish War, 1736-39
1739 - 1742 War of Jenkins' Ear
1740 - 1742 1st Silesian War
1744 - 1748 King George's War The North American part of the War of Austrian Succession
1740 - 1748 War of the Austrian Succession
1744 - 1745 2nd Silesian War
1756 - 1763 Seven Years' War, known as the French and Indian War in the United States, and also 3rd Silesian War
1754 - 1763 French and Indian War or the Seven Years' War
1768 - 1774 Russo-Turkish War, 1768-74
1775 - 1781 American Revolutionary War
1787 - 1792 Russo-Turkish War, 1787-92
1792 War in defence of the constitution
1789 - 1815 French Revolutionary Wars / Napoleonic Wars
Battle of Trafalgar 1805
Battle of Waterloo 1815

Age of Rifles
1806 - 1812 Russo-Turkish War, 1806-12
1808 - 1809 The Finnish War between Russia and Sweden wherein Sweden cedes Finland to Russia
1812 - 1814 War of 1812 fought between the United States and Great Britain, and part of the greater war between Great Britain and France
1821 - 1829 Greek War of Independence
1828 - 1829 Russo-Turkish War, 1828-29
1830 - 1831 Polish-Russian war following November Uprising
1835 Toledo War between US territory of Michigan and the US state of Ohio
1839 - 1842 First Anglo-Afghan War
1843 - 1872 Several Maori Land Wars in New Zealand
1846 - 1848 Mexican War between the United States and Mexico
1848 - 1849 Hungarian Revolt of 1848 waged by Hungary against Austria and later Russia
1848 - 1851 First war of Schleswig
1850 - 1865 Taiping Rebellion
1854 - 1856 Crimean War.
1857 - 1901 Caste War of Yucatán
1859 - 1860 Italian Independence War
1861 - 1865 American Civil War in the United States
1864 Second war of Schleswig
1866 Austro-Prussian War (aka Seven Weeks War)
1866 - 1868 Red Cloud's War between the Lakota and the United States
1870 - 1871 Franco-Prussian War
1872 - 1873 Modoc War between the Modoc and the United States
1876 - 1877 Black Hills War between the Lakota and the United States
1877 - 1878 Russo-Turkish War, 1877-78
1839 - 1842 Second Anglo-Afghan War
1887 - 1889 Italo-Abyssinian War
1895 - 1896 First Italo-Abyssinian War
1894 - 1895 First Sino-Japanese War
1898 Spanish-American War
1899 - 1902 Boer War in South Africa


World War era
1905 Russo-Japanese War
1912 - 1913 Two Balkan Wars are fought for control of European territories of Ottoman Empire 1914 - 1918 World War I, initially in Europe, then worldwide
1917 - 1918 Russian Revolution
1918 Finnish Civil War, fought between "the reds" (rebellious Socialists) and "the whites" (anti-Socialists) in the aftermath of the Russian Revolutions of 1917. Germany intervened on the side of the Whites.
1918 - 1922 Russian Civil War, fought between "the reds" (Communists) and "the whites" (tsarists) directly after the Bolshevist Revolution. US, France and Great Britain also intervened to "kill communism in the crib."
1918 - 1920 Estonian Liberation War, Estonia against Soviet Russia and the Germans.
1918 Polish-Czech war in Teschen Silesia
1918 - 1919 Poland and Lwow against Westukrainian Republic
1918 - 1919 Great Poland Uprising, Provinz Posen against Germany
1919 Third Anglo-Afghan War
1919 First Silesian Uprising
1919 - 1921 Polish-Soviet war Poland and Ukrainian Peoples Republic against Soviets
1920 Second Silesian Uprising Silesian Poles against Germany
1921 Third Silesian Uprising Silesian Poles against Germany
1934 - 1936 Northern Expedition by Kuomintang
1935 - 1936 Second Italo-Abyssinian War
1936 - 1939 Spanish Civil War
1937 - 1945 Second Sino-Japanese War
1939 - 1941 World War II: Poland,British Empire, France against Germany, Italy, Soviet Union
1941 - 1945 World War II: (British Empire, United States, Soviet Union and others against fascist Germany, Italy, and Japan).

Cold War era
1945 - 1949 Chinese Civil War
1946 - 1954 First Indochina War
1947 - 1949 First Kashmir War between India and Pakistan
1948 - 1949 First Arab-Israeli War
1950 - 1953 Korean War (UN-led coalition Vs. North Korea)
1956 Suez Crisis (Second Arab-Israeli War)
1962 - 1963 Sino-Indian War
1964 - 1973 Vietnam War between US-led coalition including government of South Vietnam and coalition including Viet Cong and North Vietnam
1965 Second Kashmir War (Second Indo-Pakistani War)
1967 Six-Day War (Third Arab-Israeli War)
1969 Football War between Honduras and El Salvador.
1971 Bangladesh War of Independence (Third Indo-Pakistani War)
1973 Yom Kippur War (Fourth Arab-Israeli War)
1974 - 1991 Ethiopian Civil War
1975 - 1991 Lebanese Civil War
1979 - 1989 Soviet-Afghan War
1980 - 1988 Iran-Iraq War
1982 Falklands War between United Kingdom and Argentina

Post-Cold War era
1989 - 1990 Operation Just Cause, United States invades Panama
1991 Gulf War between Iraq and UN-led coalition
1991 Slovene War of Independence
1991 - 1995 Croatian War of Independence
1992 - 1995 Bosnian Civil War
1994 - 1996 First Chechen War
1998 - 1999 Kosovo War (NATO Vs. Yugoslavia)
1999 Second Chechen War
2001 Invasion of Afghanistan
2003 Invasion of Iraq
www.battle-fleet.com...

Thanks for a well thought out post OP, well done. I agree with what you say in principle and will add one more thing.

Humans are hardwired to crave fear.

Fear has kept us alive long before we came to be anything close to this form.

We are designed to see danger, we are always looking for the Tiger in the grass and the spider in the hole.

However in our modern era, danger is not as "in your face" as it once was but our big brains and thousands of years of survival instincts still look for it and when the warning cry goes out we are programmed to respond.

reply to post by Helmkat


An interesting aspect is the fight or flight mechanism.

Sometimes when it comes to the apathetical, lazy, or timid, the only time they will actually take part in resolute action is when cornered and they have to fight versus flee.

So in an odd way these prophecies may be some form of people preparing themselves to fight, by first believing there is no way to flee.

Human nature is complex and curious to be certain.

Thanks for joining in.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Dude I totally agree, couldn't have said it better.

Although I do believe the way we live our lives will come to an end, I believe that because one day it simply will come to a halt. All things change, kindgoms rise, kingdoms fall, history is full of it. I simply believe there is no date, when it happens it happens, it could well be 2012, 2100, 5000, or tomorrow.

History is also full of doomsday predictions, and many have thought their era was the era of the end of man. That's why I found your death factor interresting.

My belief is that those who fear the reaper, think of a world where everyone has already died and they are fighting for survival, going out with a fight knowing they are one of the few standing, it's puts more perspective on their life because of their doubts of God.

They want to fight and crawl it's almost like DNA in some of us have a '' doomsday longing ''. I think that is where all the inspiration comes from the movies and from some of the posts.

We all want the world to do with as we want and use what we when we want, the only way that is accomplished is by being the last one standing.

The real question is what if we are right or wrong? Sometimes being rational is just as dangerous as being irrational.

reply to post by JAGx1981


We live in a temporal world of change that is inevitible, chances are the end of human kind will come at a time and in a way no one expects, or could predict.

I don't want to frighten anyone but I am now in possession of the ultimate weapon.

The Staples Easy Button, where one push of it, and I can turn the entire human race into giraffes!

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


I am in possesion of one too, it's called '' stubbornling headstrong ''. I have seen to much death and know how quick life can be snatched up, I have sat next to loved ones, my young nephew of 9 and watched them die, it put life in perspective for me young and I stay prepared for anything without being overly paranoid.

Anything can happen you are right, but the odds of it happening anytime soon by using actual facts is not really feasable, the only window that keeps it open is the factor of the unknown timing of the ELE.

reply to post by JAGx1981

My belief is that those who fear the reaper, think of a world where everyone has already died and they are fighting for survival, going out with a fight knowing they are one of the few standing, it's puts more perspective on their life because of their doubts of God. They want to fight and crawl it's almost like DNA in some of us have a '' doomsday longing ''. I think that is where all the inspiration comes from the movies and from some of the posts. We all want the world to do with as we want and use what we when we want, the only way that is accomplished is by being the last one standing.

Some become emboldened and fierce in their resolve and remain delighted as they embrace the polar opposite reality and believe their strength is derived directly from the divine illusory reality. Theirs is the task of meeting out justice and revenge on those who dare contradict their now unchangeable existence. They know what has to happen. They know how to make it happen and theirs is the task of seeing it through.

Seeing full well their own celebrated appearance in the illusory world that they believe they will soon inhabit, they justify their attitudes and actions as ordained in the dark recesses of their own thought processes. They have been given a license and a right to carry out their true intentions that are evident to those who dare oppose the convinced in their seldom spoken of divine commission. It's all good you see because they can see what the boss needs done and there are no restrictions. Them and God have an understanding.

reply to post by jackflap


That is another great way to view it, and the song is great timing!

I must add as a Katrina survivor. A couple years after I started to read these sites cause I seen first hand how FEMA screwed us, I had to go Bear Grylls for 17 days.

I have noticed in this day and age when a natural disaster happens, it is discussed and posted about soo much that it becomes magnified and actually twists weak minds into thinking the end is near.

The pont is if this technology was availiable in the ancient days, the catastrophes would look 10 fold worse. I think every time something does occur in this era it will be magified and people will fear the end even though it isn't.

I might have to grab up my guitar and play the tabs to that song!

reply to post by JAGx1981

I have noticed in this day and age when a natural disaster happens, it is discussed and posted about soo much that it becomes magnified and actually twists weak minds into thinking the end is near.

It really doesn't even have to be a natural disaster. How many threads were started about a prophecy being fulfilled through the BP oil disaster? Every one saying how the sea would turn to blood and what not. The PTB love when that happens because the people who believe this are saying that it is ultimately their own sinful fault.

I know I posted in at least one thread where someone was trying to say that the earthquakes and subsequent nuclear disasters in Japan were foretold by a vision of Mary somewhere. I believe the whole thread implied that it too was their own fault because they were warned and didn't change their sinful ways. I really didn't like that at all.

Look to the recent sighting of the supposed Mary in the sun in Africa. I believe there is a thread here about it. In this instance people merely think they see something and attribute it to a blessed vision of some kind that is warning us about our loathsome selves. Never wondering why, if this thing can appear in the sun, doesn't say a word or do anything worth while like make all the rifles and weapons being used in the wars around the world stop working for an hour or more.

I don't know how some of the ideas that are presented here get attributed to the divine but they do. It usually ends up being our own fault and so we deserve it really. Now who benefits from fomenting such an attitude as this?

Nice idea but I must disagree with your hypothisis in some cases....
Lets take Nostradamus he relayed his prophecies in the world he lived in. Fear driven possibly but that doesn't explain his far reaching prophecies which had no bearing on his own existance and yet they are quite accurate. I could go all out and name prophet after prophet and their predictions but I'm in the middle of research and I'll make this short.
I don't fear anything unless it has 8 legs...world news doesn't get me down but I can understand the humans mind when the mainstream of people start getting WW3 dreams etc. whats the word ....."Preconditioning".... the mind.
I will leave you with my own Predictions these have no bearing on my life or my current experience....... maybe, maybe not..
2031 Mt.St.Helens Eruption. Womens Face made Of burning rock and lava.
2034 A Great Flood.
2182 The Last "Human" Being Dies. I questioned this as there was a detail that wasn't explained but it was put clear last Saturday Night.
A carrier bag blowing in the wind comes to rest at my feet, I peered inside it. Empty but for a single word at the bottom of the bag "Extinction". (physical extinction) We are more than we perceive.
These Predictions are random and have no bearing on my direct life...Therefore they are not a product of my own fears or fight or flight response.
Sorry I can't debate there's not enough hours in the day....
p.s method is in the name.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

I don't believe nature or God has instilled these things in us, but society and religions ruled and used by men to manipulate us with these things.

I got that from your OP. But, ironically, your feeling that "they" are doing it to us, rather than it being a natural adaptation which some people exploit, is not much different than the conspiracies and doom theories your OP is criticizing.

Its irrational to believe that the cause of our tendency to fixate on dangers, fear, and doom, has been caused by groups of people. Its much more likely that this feature already existed in people, and that this feature actually caused religion, etc.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
These things weren't embraced willingly by the masses when they were first introduced, rather they were for the most part instilled by the sword and those millions of first nations people who wouldn't subscribe to them put to the sword and eliminated, as these constructs were gradually made fixtures of familiar and state society over centuries of repitition and powerful and wealthy institutions that simply would not go away and not stop spinning the yarns.

You have absolutely no evidence of what things people were and were not willing to embrace when religion was first introduced, and it for CERTAIN was not shoved down the throats of the masses at sword point. Because religion predates metal work. You are mistaking the forcing of people to convert from one religion to another with the advent of religion itself, apparently.

The big three middle eastern religions are not the be all and end all of religion. And in one example, the Hawaiian pre-Christian religion, you can clearly see that their "Gods" are related to their fears, not vice versa. Volcanoes were not created to deal with Pele, Pele was created to deal with the fear of Volcanoes, and to provide an illusion of control over the uncontrollable by anthropomorphizing them into a "Goddess" whom one could then hope to appeal to, with bribes, obedience, etc.

All roads really DONT lead to Rome. Or even the middle eastern religions. Humanity is a lot more than the last 2000 odd years.

Now, do people exploit the fact that we are preoccupied with death, fear and doom? Sure they do. Even parents do with tales of boogey men who eat naughty children. But exploiting something that naturally exists in a population for your own gain does not equal creating it, or causation.

Exploring "apocalyptic" theories is also not a "negative" as you seem to want to claim. You seem to be pretending that this ability/tendency offers us no benefit. Which is clearly ridiculous. Everything from trying to stay a step ahead of viruses, to planning to climate change, to early tribes fortifying their camps to prevent night time raids are examples of this tendency being used in ways most people do not think of as dysfunctional. Your mindset is conspiratorial perhaps, and you think all these scientists and leaders are doing this just to control the people. What you arent willing apparently to recognize, is that our leaders are driven by the same fears, the same preoccupation with doom, and prevention of it.

Studies of dreams also indicate that at least one type of dream seems dedicated to rehearsing "fight or flight" which in your waking life, you may only get one real chance at. I see this even with my cat, who often dreams he is fighting, (he vocalizes in his sleep) and he hasnt been in more than one little tiff in his life.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
I don't feel I have over annalyzed because the reality is these are the things that are at the base of doom and gloom prophecies, religion, overly militant and authoritarian tyranical states, fear and a love of high drama.

You are mistaking cause and effect.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
When something as familiar as our present religious constructs become so ingrained in a society, it does get very hard to see beyond them, especially when they offer that vague promise of heavenly rewards or infernal punishments for not subscribing to them as well as the peer pressure of the masses.

And when something as familiar as religious constructs are part of someones personal cultural experience, it CAN get hard to see past them. And the "fear the enemy" tendency of humans can be applied TO them, by those who dont accept them as dogma. I suppose its also hard for those who grew up in such a way that these were powerful dominating forces to understand that not everyone is that enamored or influenced by them. And that they are relatively young powers, and certainly not responsible for traits that are universal in normal humans.

Yeah I remember the Mary sighting on Easter, and I agree, I didn't post on that one.

I have also went head up with ET_MAN and his prophecies and never got a logical answer.

Most of the time people post so many predictions of different things I don't even both posting thoughts on it cause usually someone already has it covered for me.

I think alot of people that fear the end should read this thread for some insight, no good reason why people should be shelling out tons of money and grief over things that probably would never happen.

I think Hollywood has a lot to answer for in regards to these doomsday prophecies and predictions. If you look at the films from the last 20 years there has been a rapid increase in armageddon type movies.
People lap this stuff up and their minds go into overdrive. Next thing you know, Billy has a dream an earthquake hits his city and a million people die. Wakes up and thinks it's a prophetic message from God.

When God is mentioned people either smile or cringe. I am a strong believer in God and Christianity.
I found my own way there and I can honestly say I'm not deluded. Tell me any group of people that believe in something that doesn't exist who aren't insane. There are none because if you believe and live your life following something that doesn't exist you are usually put away.
Ask yourselves if you are put in the middle of knowhere and given a group of neighbours but you have a choice of either Christians or random people, most people would probably pick Christians.
It's no coincidence that the decrease in Christianity has seen an increase in crime and a decrease in community and moral values.
The reason Christians are attacked so much is because people expect them to be perfect and when they fall short they are criticised. Christians can be very judgemental I know but this cannot be blammed on the teachings of Christ.

reply to post by Dezero


Yeah alot of people that don't believe in God, they even have movies back in the black and white movie days about a debate of believers against athiest.

For alot of rational thinkers it's hard to comprehend the presence of a God.

But I too believe in God, not because of what preachers say of what the religious overlords say, because I have faith in something.

Key word, faith, it means not a guarantee, it is something you have faith in to believe is true, at least thats how I look at it.

Everyone is unique so I don't bash either end, only when they go overboard and make outlandish claims do I get into the discussions, I will call out religion just as fast and the other. I won't get into it deeper because its a lose/lose situation these days when talked about.

I am not a church goer mine is personal one. I just choose to believe there is something more, faith.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

I think we should revere and respect the planet, that which is real and lives around us, and most of all one another.

The Judaen concepts of religion as put forth by Judaism, Christianity, and Islam is slavery to the belief of an unseen force that is not interactive in human terms and ways, that books written thousands of years ago are used to enslave the masses to these ideas.

Why would I place an imagined unseen entity over my friends, loved ones, family, and nature and the earth itself.

Why would I try harder to serve it than those who I love.

It really is a slavery based system that is based on an authoritarian state, excessive laws, heavy punishments, slavery war and taxation.

Read the original ten commandments objectively and that's what it is, it describes such a system.

A system you are extolled to take on faith, not evidence, a system where the greatest rewards don't come in this lifetime but the next.

You might as well as raise your hand and say, slavery it's for me!

James 1:26-27 ESV / 56 helpful votes
If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person's religion is worthless. Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.

Great thread as usual, Proto.
There are a lot of doom-n-gloom threads; not just on this site but even in MSM articles. I think most of us sense that all is not well in the world. Technically, we are currently IN a world war. The majority of the world seems to be at war with one another. We seem to be keeping the wolf away from the door by calling it a dog. It's a world war, not a police action, not a peace keeping mission, etc. Talking endlessly about the current state of world events is akin to looking up in the sky, seeing a meteorite falling in your direction and getting on the phone to give a blow-by-blow account of the destruction coming. What needs to happen is M-O-V-E-M-E-N-T on our part, not more talking.

I guess some people feel like they ARE doing something if they're talking about it.

Also, I had to chuckle about the "bread and circuses" mentality. True, so true. I once knew a guy who was clinically paranoid (probably the only mental illness that is communicable...LOL). He used to tell me how the FBI was watching him and tapping his phone and how he even had a sleeper agent living across the street from him.

I tried reasoning with him by suggesting that since he worked at K-Mart, he probably wasn't much of a threat or person of interest to the FBI and that the lovely elderly couple across the street had lived there for 25 years and he'd only lived in the neighborhood for 2 years. Surely they didn't wait 23 years for him to show up. All my talk did was put me on his list of suspects. I, too, had become the enemy that he needed to keep an eye on.

It finally occured to me that he was so insecure and felt so powerless in his life that it was a matter of some comfort to him to believe that he was important enough for people to watch and spy on him. Sad little man. For him, living in fear and paranoia was at least some sort of living that kept him from feeling insignificant in the world.

A lot of good posters on ATS (and elsewhere) have given useful and quality information of trends to watch which have panned out. My concern with the plethera of them is that such overly careful and continual "watching" puts us in the position of spectators to life rather than participants. It also has the potential to become self-fulfilling prophecies.

My personal take on all the gloom and doom of late is "I know things are bad and getting worse. I'm doing what I can about it and enjoying the moments of my life while they're still enjoyable." More than that, I can not do.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander

Its irrational to believe that the cause of our tendency to fixate on dangers, fear, and doom, has been caused by groups of people. Its much more likely that this feature already existed in people, and that this feature actually caused religion, etc.

You mean the groups of people that horde, conspire to use resources as leverage to acquire and horde more, and deliberately never disperse enough resources and opportunities to get them to use a contrived scarcity to create a controlled chaos that causes people to look to very same people who introduced the chaos through this system, to then protect them with laws that are designed to protec the haves from the have nots in exchange for liberty and taxes.

Those small groups of people otherwise known as the ruling elite, who really do conspire to that end?

Who's laws designed to protect the haves from the have nots are all about ensuring that the resources they acquired through leverage, theft, war, murder and fraud will never be taken away from them?

Irrational huh? You keep telling yourself that, but it happens to not only be true but what many critical and objective thinkers describe and typify the scarcity paradigm and the free range system of slaver as.

You have absolutely no evidence of what things people were and were not willing to embrace when religion was first introduced, and it for CERTAIN was not shoved down the throats of the masses at sword point. Because religion predates metal work. You are mistaking the forcing of people to convert from one religion to another with the advent of religion itself, apparently.

Wrong we have Rome's own accounts and things like making pagan gods saints in the catholic church and piggy backing Christian holidays on top of pagan ones.

Yule being a great example, celebrated for thousands of years to coincide with the Winter Solstice.

When the Pagans refused to stop celebrating it after hundreds of years of trying, they simply anounced the Christ was born smack dab in the middle of it, I am sure you have heard of Christ's Mass or Christmas.

Astrologers and astronomers alike agree that the celestial event believed to be the Star of Bethleham occured in March not in December.

History is full of violent efforts by Christians to displace and murder first world pagans.

The big three middle eastern religions are not the be all and end all of religion. And in one example, the Hawaiian pre-Christian religion, you can clearly see that their "Gods" are related to their fears, not vice versa. Volcanoes were not created to deal with Pele, Pele was created to deal with the fear of Volcanoes, and to provide an illusion of control over the uncontrollable by anthropomorphizing them into a "Goddess" whom one could then hope to appeal to, with bribes, obedience, etc.

The Hawiaan Monarchy ruled through fear, and war, what did Proto say was the constructs of a nation that ruled and expanded through militancy? Violent gods who demand war, sacrafice and total allegiance to them.

While religion might start out as natural fears of the people, once the political and priestly class begin conspiring for power it quickly morphs into a tool of the state.

When the Hawaiian monarch approached and you failed to prostrate yourself eyes down to the ground laying flat on it, and dared to so much as look at him, you were put to death instantly.

The islands belong to Pele, take a piece of the Island away from it and you will be cursed and struck down.

The islands belonged to the monarchs, again we see the state using God to establish it's power and authority and fear.

All roads really DONT lead to Rome. Or even the middle eastern religions. Humanity is a lot more than the last 2000 odd years.

You keep telling your self that, while you stop by that very Roman looking building to be judged, argue for your Roman created religion, and spend money with latin inscribed on it, praising the virtues of the Roman God, which is actually the Vicar of Christ, God's legal representative on Earth by treaty.

The world has been romanized into common systems, of banking, law, commerce, war, and it's all based on the Roman construct of God.

Exploring "apocalyptic" theories is also not a "negative" as you seem to want to claim. You seem to be pretending that this ability/tendency offers us no benefit. Which is clearly ridiculous. Everything from trying to stay a step ahead of viruses, to planning to climate change, to early tribes fortifying their camps to prevent night time raids are examples of this tendency being used in ways most people do not think of as dysfunctional. Your mindset is conspiratorial perhaps, and you think all these scientists and leaders are doing this just to control the people. What you arent willing apparently to recognize, is that our leaders are driven by the same fears, the same preoccupation with doom, and prevention of it.

You really want to talk about the phony baloney science of Climate change brought to you by the minds at the Club of Rome, who's current President is the British scientist who wrote the essays and theories so much pending legislation for additional taxes is based on.

Or swine flu, or AIDS that many believe were introduced by the government releaseing pathogens in depopulation campanign.

Please, I understand you are bent out of shape that I published this thread, but try to grasp at something factual.

Studies of dreams also indicate that at least one type of dream seems dedicated to rehearsing "fight or flight" which in your waking life, you may only get one real chance at. I see this even with my cat, who often dreams he is fighting, (he vocalizes in his sleep) and he hasnt been in more than one little tiff in his life.

Did your cat prompt a rediculous conversation on blood types based on one of those dreams?

You are mistaking cause and effect.

Please, you have a chance to learn something about the psychology and constructs of what causes these panic attacks.

Spare me the psuedo intellectual attempts at deflection, and the arguments based on wishful thinking and denial.

And when something as familiar as religious constructs are part of someones personal cultural experience, it CAN get hard to see past them. And the "fear the enemy" tendency of humans can be applied TO them, by those who dont accept them as dogma. I suppose its also hard for those who grew up in such a way that these were powerful dominating forces to understand that not everyone is that enamored or influenced by them. And that they are relatively young powers, and certainly not responsible for traits that are universal in normal humans.

Do you know how many humans inhabit how many planets on a universal scale.

On this one, most of what humans do is as you have said, based on societal programing and constructs indoctrinated at an early age and reinforced through instiutions, and in this case, people who's pride gets in the way of them knowing and acting better.

Thanks.

reply to post by whitewave

My personal take on all the gloom and doom of late is "I know things are bad and getting worse. I'm doing what I can about it and enjoying the moments of my life while they're still enjoyable." More than that, I can not do.

Several days a week when the weather permits I hop on my bike, travel through the adjacent park to my home that fronts the ocean, along a sidewalk boardwalk to grap a hot meal to go and then back to a shade tree in the park over looking the beach, the azure waters, and the swaying palm trees.

Squirells dance, birds sing, little children run around and laugh without a care in the world as their parents rejoice in their gayity and feel young again too watching it.

Is a super virus, nuclear false flag, or alien invasion going to end that timeless beauty, and nature?

Not likely.

I know I am lucky to live in such a beautiful place, but the truth is most of us have beauty around us we simply ignore to gravitate and focus on the negatives.

It's kind of hard while sitting there to work myself to a ulcer over women wearing head dresses in Saudi Arabia, or the notion that Iran might get a bomb, or that a group of Masons are sitting around watching a simpson cartoon getting the inside track on a nuclear weapon being detonated on US soil.

The best things in life are still free, and they really can't be taken away, only we can choose to ignore them.

Great post my friend.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

An interesting aspect is the fight or flight mechanism.

Sometimes when it comes to the apathetical, lazy, or timid, the only time they will actually take part in resolute action is when cornered and they have to fight versus flee....

Boy, Ain't that the TRUTH!!!

I have been trying to educate people about WTO/NAIS Food and the FED since 2006 (Has it been THAT LONG?) generally I got a great big YAWN. No one was interested. There is plenty of "safe" food in the store so you must be nuts.

Then we had the bank bailouts, foreclosures and sky rocketing unemployment, now I am a fountain of wisdom and people WANT to hear about the FED (food not so much)

When (not if) Food prices skyrocket and shortages start appearing on the store shelves THEN and only then will the majority of people hear what I have to say.

I am praying for a really really poor harvest this year so those shelves are empty THIS winter not later after TPTB has wiped out the last of the independent farmers.

Nature (God) may just throw a real spanner in the works and I am truly hoping so.

Recently the stage seems to have been set:

October 9th, 2010 (UK financial times)
Fears of a global food crisis swept the world’s commodity markets as prices for staples such as corn, rice and wheat spiralled after the US government warned of “dramatically” lower supplies.

An especially hot summer in the US, droughts in countries including Russia and Brazil and heavy rain in Canada and Europe have hit many grain and oilseed crops this year. This has raising concern of a severe squeeze in food supplies and a repeat of the 2007-08 food crisis.

The US Department of Agriculture, in a closely watched report, predicted that the country’s stocks of corn would halve to their lowest levels in 14 years....

“I think we have a food crisis right now,” said Hussein Allidina, head of commodities research at Morgan Stanley....

The USDA shocked traders by forecasting in its monthly report that the country’s corn farmers would harvest about 12.7bn bushels in the 2010-11 crop year that started in September. This is down 4 per cent from the USDA’s previous estimate.

The drop would slash the country’s stocks to 900m bushels, the lowest level since 1996-97. The USDA also cut wheat and soya production estimates.... patdollard.com...

The Strategic Grain Reserve
February 5, 2011


....Now let’s look at the present situation. Prices are on the rise and the following article really grabbed my interest again on the topic of wheat and reserves (or lack thereof):

Global food prices hit new record high [Feb 3, 2011]

Algeria last week said it had bought almost a million tonnes of wheat, bringing its bread wheat purchases to at least 1.75 million since the start of January, and ordered an urgent speeding up of grain imports, a move aimed at building stocks....

Severe drought in the Black Sea last year, heavy rains in Australia and dry weather in Argentina and anticipation of a spike in demand after unrest in north Africa and the Middle East has also helped drive grain prices even higher.

China Puts More Grain Reserve on Market [Dec 9, 2010]

The reserve included 1.8 million tonnes of corn, 4.5 million tonnes of wheat, 2.1 million tonnes of rice and 296,000 tonnes of soybean, the NDRC said.

Previous figures showed a total of 25.5 million tonnes of stockpiled grain and cooking oil had been released on to the market since the end of October.

gardenserf.wordpress.com...

Russia had crop failures and so did Australia and Mexico. Now we have the devistating flooding in the Midwest during prime planting season. On top of that eco-freaks in pursuit of protecting the Snail Darter cut off the water supply to California's major farming area.
Water scarcity clouds California farming's future | Reuters

We also had the damage done to Florida orchards by the hard freezes. Add in jumps in the price of fuel and we will be getting major jumps in the price of food.

Whether Americans will wake up is the only question. So far TPTB has kept the effects of the doubling of the money supply under-wraps from the average Joe. The 2008 game playing with the grain supplies starved third world not American children. I do not know if they can continue to do that if Nature decides to take a hand.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Proto - your threads are excellent, your ideas have depth, and your powers of reason are quite simply exceptional.

However, you have strayed into territory that you are ill-qualified to comment upon. Without a gnostic appreciation of the experience of prophecy, in combination with your deep mistrust of organised Christianity/ religion in general (warranted, and agreed with by myself) you are literally incapable of commenting in a balanced and 'real' way.

As someone who was brought into an awareness of the Reality of prophecy via a number of dreams that came true within a short space of time - and as someone who has experienced a multitude of prophetic/spiritual dreams yet to come true, which echo the words of prophets through the ages, I am more qualified than your very good self to stand in the breach as an advocate for the phenomenon.

Think of the nature of reality as holographic, wherein one 'part' contains all the necessary information to interpret the 'whole' - which it almost certainly is (though that is a highly simplified way of expressing it - I am not bright enough to follow the physics/ maths in full, and offer only a 'lead' for others to investigate at leisure)... Time is a constituent part of reality, and it is now being suggested that it can, under some circumstances even flow BACKWARDS... See the following: For One Tiny Instant, Physicists May Have Broken a Law of Nature

Knowing that holographic theories are well-supported in the world of modern physics enquiry, we can appreciate the fact that some people believe that there are entities in this vast and wonderful universe that literally have the keys to time itself. And no, I'm not talking about this bloke:



See the following for additional reading on the topic. It is not an exhaustive list, and simply offers a means of accessing a lot of different names of people and groups who are thinking along the lines of what I like to call 'malleable time constructs':

The Amazing Holographic Universe

Introduction to The Holographic Universe Part II (NB - also hints at ESP and dream-work)

'Multiverse Theory' Holds That the Universe is a Virtual Reality Matrix

Also have a scan over this highly fascinating (and for me personally, paradigm-shifting) point of view, from David Deutsch, a fellow of Oxford University in the UK and a successful 'pop science' author (though his work also appeals to fellow science-philosophers):

Time, causation and free will:

Not only are persons spread out through worlds, but they, like everything else, are quantized through time in any given world. Time is a series of moments, and a person who exists at a moment exists there forever in four-dimensional spacetime, rather than being transformed continuously through the flow of time. Such change and flow are mythical, Deutsch argues.

The argument doesn't strictly require the multiverse hypothesis, because deterministic physics since Newton has implied that the openness of the future is an illusion, and consequently that free will is an illusion. (This conclusion could be avoided by adopting compatibilism. Also, collapse interpretations of quantum mechanics imply both indeterminism and an open future).

What the multiverse adds to a block time theory is an attenuated account of common sense's ideas of causation and free will. Although an effect can't be changed by its cause, the counterfactuals that causal statements support are true. If the cause hadn't occurred, the effect would not have occurred.

For the multiverse, which is "to a first approximation" a very large number of co-existing and slightly interacting spacetimes, includes universes in which the cause doesn't occur and its effect doesn't occur. And although the "me-copy" in this spacetime could not have done otherwise, there are me-copies in other worlds that actually do otherwise (thus, the common-sense idea that, in choosing one course of action, one refrains from another, is not retained). There is a branching of these me-copies that validates my sense that my future is open, in contrast to spacetime physics.

However, the open future of common sense is a myth. As defined by the Darwinist framework, there is no flow of time dividing the actualities of the past from the unactualized potentialities of the future.

Wiki on 'The Fabric of Reality' by David Deutsch


I could go on and incorporate various other studies and websites, but I think that'll do for now...

In summary - prophecy is real, and it's scientifically acceptable that such would be the case. I'm a 'believer' in the Kingship of Christ, but I don't want to be known as a wishy-washy, non-thinking fundamentalist.

To believe in prophecy does not mean that one has to check one's brain at the door.

I started by believing in prophecy as a result of direct, personal, 'gnostic' experience, and went on to investigate whether it could in fact be a real phenomenon (in the sense that anything is considered 'real' at least...) My conclusions are apparent, I presume.

I began sharing (in a thread now located in this forum) some of my prophetic dreams; those which (as yet) remain unfulfilled, but seem to be trending towards fulfillment - at least if judging by the events taking place in the world around us 'at this very moment in time'..

The thread related to the upcoming World War 3, and doesn't include date predictions, but rather follows along a flexible timescale (in fact, 'event-scale' would be a more accurate way of stating it) based upon what I have called the 'Event Conjunctions Theory of Prophetic Insight.

I had a disagreement with Mods about where the thread should be located, and as a result have decided to re-think and re-present the information, in a new thread, in the World War 3 forum, at some point very soon.

Once again, I am not criticising you as such Proto, as I understand where your non-confrontational bias originates. Almost all of your theories relating to the continuation of the Holy Roman Empire are entirely accurate. In fact - and here's a little gem of a 'coincidence' - the very existence of a modern expression of that empire was fully espoused in one of my dreams a few years back, which at the time was waaaaay before I had come across AboveTopSecret, or any of the theories regarding the continuation of the Holy Roman Empire.....

NB - That particular dream referred to the FALL of the empire (an empire which is commonly known as the NWO here on AboveTopSecret and elsewhere in the alternative community...)

I will be most happy to share if you are interested; however, if not directly invited to share the dream details in this thread, it is one of the most crucial among those I have experienced over the years, and as such will be included in that thread I promised a moment ago - watch this space if you are interested.

All the best,


Fly.

edit on 9-5-2011 by FlyInTheOintment because: clarification, because the Doctor came back and told me that the world would end if I didn't change one of the words in the first paragraph. Damn butterfly effect..... That girl Rose is a bit of alright though, isn't she?!